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How to get the most out of your stock car?

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Old 03-09-17, 01:08 PM
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Ill
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Question How to get the most out of your stock car?

Im a noob when it comes to the engines and performance mods.
I own a 13B Twin turbo fd, everything is stock. It is a 97 limited edition type RS-R Manual. It's my daily and only car so do not want to push to the limit.

I have 3 main requests.
I want the brap sound, turbo spool sound and advice on things i should do to improve performance.

Im not going to drag it or race it.
From what i read from past threads half bridge port for the brap and remove the hose from bov to airbox, some say replace it with an aftermarket bov though im not sure which is better and which give a better sound.
Please help me out.
Old 03-09-17, 05:24 PM
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Go to this link. Type in your request and all manner of useful information will be revealed.

​​​​​​For some reason people don't use this link very often when it is so useful. Info dating back to the start of the century when this forum was created.

https://www.rx7club.com/search.php
Old 03-10-17, 05:35 AM
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I figured the first reply would be like your post or saying don't do it.
If there is someone else who can give me answer to the 3 main questions, that would be great?
I have already searched many different posts (read the last paragraph) , non has the same specs and combinations i require.
Almost every thread has the same replies flaming the thread starter rather than a direct answer to the question.
Atleast give me a proper thread to read, cuz all the threads i read did not cover it.
Old 03-10-17, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jimlab
First off, do a lot of research before you start tampering with the car, because like a couple posts above, people are full of information... but not necessarily 100% correct information.

12 psi on the stock fuel system with the stock ECU equals one thing... fuel cut. It's not fun, don't do it. 14 psi on the stock fuel system, without ECU modification or an aftermarket computer equals one thing... time for a new engine. You will not get away with that. Most people don't get away with 14 psi anywhere but on the dyno, with race fuel, and ice on the motor. Forget about anything but stock boost until you've provided extra fuel.

That said, there have been people (since you asked about maximum boost pressure on the stock motor) who have run above 30 psi, and I know for a fact that the Ianetti 3mm ceramic apex seals have been run at 45+ psi. Boost doesn't kill the motor, inadequate fuel does. Detonate at 10 psi and you'll blow the motor, regardless of the fact that it's "only" stock boost. Even with ceramic apex seals, detonation will still take your motor out.

So first off, start with the reliability mods.

1) Check and find out if the car has had all TSBs (technical service bulletin) performed. If it hasn't get them done. Engine fires were more common than one might like from problems with the fuel lines, and there were recalls to repair these problems on the earlier cars, especially 1993 models. Your local Mazda dealership should be able to help you find out this information.

2) Get a boost gauge. In fact, before you buy the car, if you can rig up a temporary mechanical boost gauge (and thread the rubber hose out through a gap in the hood at the windshield) and find out what the stock boost levels are, you should do it. If you're not seeing (approximately) 10-8-10, the 8 indicating a drop in boost level as the second turbo is brought online at around 4,500 rpm, then you've got problems before you've even started. Get a boost gauge so you can diagnose boost problems.

3) Get a downpipe, ceramic coated if possible. Get the pre-cat out of the car, and if the main catalytic converter is suspect, replace it so that you don't have excessive backpressure and heat in the exhaust system. The pre-cat warms the enigne more quickly, but does little more than create heat. It can and will (if it has not already done so) bake all the vacuum lines controlling the sequential turbo system, making them brittle or prone to cracking. This is where a large number of boost response problems can come from. Get the heat out of the engine bay, because the pre-cat can (and again, does) bake your battery too, quickly killing most underhood batteries from the excessive heat. There have been several instances of batteries exploding.

4) Get an aftermarket radiator. These cars tend to overheat with extended heavy driving, and the stock cooling system is inadequate, especially for hotter climates. Get a Fluidyne (or other) replacement radiator and improve your chances of keeping the engine alive. Overheating is probably the second most common cause of engine replacement, shortly following detonation.

5) Closely monitor your water temp, but not with the stock gauge. The stock water temp gauge is weighted towards the center of its range. Therefore, by the time it starts moving to the high end, it's probably already too late. Get a "real" water temperature gauge and keep a close eye on your coolant temperature. If the gauge starts to rise excessively, stop doing what you're doing, and coast the car to let it cool down.

6) Get the stock intercooler out of the car. It's next to worthless, and acts more like a heatsink, sitting directly above the radiator, than an intercooler. Intake temperatures with the stock intercooler at stock boost levels can be very, very high if the car has sat (in traffic, for example) at idle for long periods. At speed, it's not as much of a problem, but it's still inadequate at best. Once you see how tiny the core of the stock IC is, you'll wonder what Mazda was thinking. If you intend to run higher boost levels, you MUST get rid of the stock intercooler. You can either choose between an underhood model (M2 Performance "medium" and "large" ICs, for example), or a front mount model. Keep in mind that a front mount model will not only collect rock damage much quicker, but will block air flow to the radiator also. FMICs are fine for drag racing, but are not the best solution for a street driven car or one that will see track use at extended high boost levels. It may cool the incoming air, but so do the underhood models, and they don't inhibit airflow through the radiator.

7) Once you raise boost, CONTROL it. Buy a *quality* boost controller and limit your boost. As mentioned above, without modification of the stock ECU, you'll hit fuel cut at 12 psi. With a downpipe and an upgraded intercooler, it's almost a given that you'll peak at 12 psi or a bit higher, so you need to control boost to safe levels, and above all, prevent boost spiking or creep. There are several models that people swear by, including the HKS EVC IV, EVC EZ, the Blitz controller, and the A'pexi AVC-R. Get a boost controller and keep your boost at safe levels.

8) While it isn't 100% accurate (since nothing but a multi-wire heated wide-band 02 sensor is truly accurate, but at high cost), you can monitor your oxygen sensor voltage to give you an indication of how rich (or lean) your engine is running. Anything below 0.86 volts is getting very lean, and if your readings are in the 0.82-0.84 volt range, you need to back your boost level off until you get adequate fuel. Anything from 0.80 and lower is almost guarantee to lead to engine replacement. 0.90 and higher is fairly rich. There are many manufacturers of Air/Fuel ratio gauges to monitor this reading, or you can (with a little work) hook up a multimeter to the wire lead at the ECU, which works for temporary measurement.

9) In combination with monitoring Air/Fuel ratio, you should also get a quality EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge and monitor that as well. Depending on your mods, people can give you a good idea of the ranges you should be seeing as far as exhaust temperatures and what's relatively safe. As with the coolant temperature, when EGTs start to rise dramatically, it's time to back off and let the car cool down. Which leads us to...

10) More fuel. Probably the most important and most neglected aspect of keeping your rotary healthy. If you're going to run higher than stock boost, you *will* need fuel modifications. The cheapest, a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (often called the "poor man's fuel computer) will raise fuel rail line pressure depending on boost level, and at higher pressures, more fuel is injected at a specific injector duty cycle than at lower pressures.

Speaking of injector duty cycle, the AVC-R boost controller from A'pexi will allow you to monitor the duty cycle of your injectors. Ideally, they should not be running at higher than 85-89% duty cycle. Doing so runs the risk of having them sticking open (creating a very rich situation) or stick closed (creating a very dangerous lean condition). If you're buying a used car, it is not a bad idea to have the stock injectors removed, cleaned and flow matched, or replaced if necessary. Your engine's health can literally depend on the condition of the injectors. If you're seeing duty cycles higher than these levels, it's time for larger injectors.

Which brings us to fuel system mods. The stock lines and pump are adequate for about 12-13 psi, but it is best to be on the safe side. Yes, there are people who run their cars at the track or on the dyno at 14+ psi (with the stock turbos) on the stock fuel lines and injectors, but always with a modified ECU (reprogrammed fuel maps for high boost) or a piggyback fuel computer, and almost always with an upgraded fuel pump and pressure regulator. And almost always with race gas, to increase octane and reduce the chances of detonation. On the street, the chances are very good that your car will not survive extended boost levels around 14-15 psi on the stock fuel system. Some get away with it, many don't.

Upgrade the fuel pump at the very least, and the lines, if possible. Many use the Cosmo (20B rotary) fuel pump, or the MKIV (fourth generation) Supra fuel pumps, which are almost identical. A lot use the Walbro fuel pump which outflows the previous too significantly, and many use the big Bosch pump (there are three models, the one you want has a screened inlet across the entire bottom of the pump, not the ones with a nut fitting for in-line use) to provide adequate fuel. The stock fuel lines are only the equivalent of roughly -4 aftermarket lines, so even upgrading at least your delivery line (there are three... one for fuel delivery, one for fuel return to the fuel tank, and one for the charcoal cannister vapor reclamation system) to a -6 (pronounced "dash 6") line is an improvement. Upgrading the fuel fittings on the tank outlet to aftermarket AN (Army/Navy spec) fittings and -8 fuel line is even better. The more fuel you can deliver, the better. Your return line can be smaller than your delivery line, but it doesn't hurt to upgrade that too, if you're really flowing a lot of fuel.

Upgrade the fuel computer. Probably the cheapest and easiest way is to have the stock computer modified. A piggyback chip is soldered onto the stock ECU motherboard and an EEPROM is "burned" with the fuel maps for your modifications. Many vendors can do this, but among them are Pettit Racing, M2 Performance, and XS Engineering. This is a good "intermediate" solution, but not ideal. The stock computer doesn't handle fuel delivery as effectively as it might, and a piggyback computer (PFS "purple" PFC, for example) or complete aftermarket computer (Motec, Electromotive, Haltech, Wolf3D, etc.) are better solutions, especially if you're going to upgrade to a single turbo, which will require even higher fuel delivery rates. The Power FC computer is also highly recommended.

Upgrade injectors. If you change the size of the stock injectors (as opposed to adding additional injectors on the intake manifold itself or on the intake elbow, as some kits do) and still have the stock computer, will you need to maintain the ratio in size of the injectors. The primary injectors are 550cc injectors and the secondaries are 850cc. Some people have had luck with upgrading the secondaries only, but some have upgraded both to 720cc primaries and 1220 secondaries (roughly maintaining the 1.5-1.6 ratio) and using the Peter Farrell PFC to control fuel delivery. But if you go with an aftermarket system, then it is much easier to control larger injectors and avoid the problems with tuning that changing the ratio between primary and secondary can cause.

11) Make more power? Replace your clutch. Or at least make sure that you have a rev limiter in place should the clutch let go. Get an ACT or Centerforce Dual-Friction clutch (or other aftermarket clutch) and don't even bother with the Mazdacomp 17% stiffer pressure plate or experimenting with friction plates. Buy an entire system and do it right once, the first time. The ACT clutch is highly recommended by many owners. The main problem with the stock clutch is that it's adequate for stock power levels, but can quickly be overcome (even in new, unabused condition) by additional power. Although the rotary engine loves to rev, there is a limit, and without a rev limiter (which can be removed when the ECU is reprogrammed), you need to make sure that you keep the engine from over-revving. Doing so can throw a corner seal or cause other internal damage to the motor, and the apex seals (under boost) tend to float (or pull away from the surface of the rotor housing) at revolutions higher than 8,000 per minute. When this happens, they cannot disperse heat, they can warp, and they can break, causing internal engine damage and damage to the turbo(s) as any broken pieces exit through the exhaust ports.

By adding a Crane HI-6 ignition computer, you can get a hotter spark to the engine, improve fuel economy (in some cases), eliminate the high end missing that some cars experience, and have a fail-safe for high rpm by setting its integrated rev limiter. There are several how-tos on the web for this mod and others.

12) Run spark plugs with a colder heat range. If you're going to run high boost, run NGK BUR9EQP plugs in both the leading and trailing positoins, and it may be necessary to go one heat range lower and run BUR11EQPs. A hotter plug retains more heat, which is exactly what you *don't* want under high boost, because it can lead to pre-ignition of the air/fuel charge before the optimal firing sequence. This cause an uneven burn (detonation), extremely high internal pressures, and will probably break your apex seals, especially with repetition. If you hear sounds under the hood like your engine is trying to make "popcorn", you need to back off immediately, but it'll probably be too late at that point.

Cheap insurance would be to buy the Jacobs knock sensor (more sensitive than the stock knock sensors) which will back out timing at the onset of the detection of detonation or "engine knock". It's not foolproof, but the purchase price is far cheaper than replacing an engine.

So to wrap this up, monitor your systems closely, provide enough fuel for the amount of boost pressure you plan to run, and with proper tuning, you can go a long way towards preventing the unwanted task of replacing your engine. These mods aren't 100% guaranteed to get 100k miles out of an engine, but they go a long way towards improving reliability and longevity. As always, increasing the power output of an engine does reduce its lifespan, and even with the best tuned system in the world, things can (and do) go wrong. There is one person I know who lost an engine at stock boost even with ceramic apex seals and a Motec system tuned by Mandeville Racing. Bad things do happen ocassionally, sometimes without reason.

Just keep an eye on your gauges and spend at least as much on your fuel system as you do on other mods, and you'll go a long way towards preventing anything like that from happening to you. And obviously, the more you err on the side of caution, the better off you'll be. I don't recommend more than 12-12.5 psi on the street to anyone running stock turbos, especially with a stock intercooler. It's just not worth it to push an extra pound or so of boost in order to make a little more power at the risk of losing an engine. Play it safe and you'll have a far better ownership experience.

Again, read all you can on the subject and educate yourself. Invest in an RX-7 service manual so that even if you don't have to work on the car, or don't want to do the work yourself, you'll still be educated on how the systems function and interact with eachother. If you ever do have to work on your own car, it'll pay for itself with the first use.

Search the Internet for information. A good place to start is Steve Cirian's web site.

scuderiaciriani.com

Steve has captured information from posts to the "main" RX-7 mailing list (rx7@world.std.com) which is predominantly 3rd gen. oriented. There are links to how-to articles on other sites and on his site, pictures, information, many different opinions on everything from single turbo systems to suspension components.

Good luck!
Here....from the FAQ sticky. Spoon-fed as you requested. Some links may not be good anymore, but it's a start. It's your car, make an effort.

Last edited by Sgtblue; 03-10-17 at 06:35 AM.
Old 03-10-17, 06:55 AM
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Reading your initial post makes me shake my head, not gonna lie.

What you're after isn't really possible. Sure, you can do some mods to get that 'turbo spool and BOV' sound--- install an aftermarket intake like an Apex'i and vent the factory BOV (there's only one) and CRV to atmosphere.

If it's a daily driver and you don't want to push performance or hurt reliability your best bet for the BrapBrap is to either pick up an FB and get the engine bridge ported for a weekend ride or just jump on YouTube every morning before formation to get your dose of that Brappy idle.

Add a catback exhaust, stock mount ic to your JDM DP and Y-pipe, install a Power FC and get it professionally tuned.

Where are you located Marine, in Japan I presume?
Old 03-10-17, 07:02 AM
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Stock to 340rwhp with bolt ons https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...added-1104322/

However from your post it sounds like you really want noise and a crappy idle.

Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 03-10-17 at 07:07 AM.
Old 03-10-17, 07:56 AM
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Brap brap - pretty easy to do. Just pull the engine, disassemble it, port the irons (bridge port is what braps), reassemble the engine, put it back in to the car. Should take a 2-3days of work if you have the right tools, know what you're doing, and don't take any bathroom breaks. Like I said, pretty easy.

Turbo sound - just go single. Borg warner turbos, like the s3xx line, are loud. It's pretty cheap too. You can buy a single turbo kit from a reputable vendor for $3k-$5k. The stancers will all look your way at the hard parked meets when they hear you spool.

Improve performance - just add injectors, fuel rails, fuel pump(s), bigger rad, intercooler, fpr, aftermarket ecu, a good tune, and a wheelbarrow full of odds & ends and your pants will fly off everytime that you step on the gass.




If you haven't guessed by now, i'm being sarcastic. Jimlab posted an excellent list of modifications to make your FD come alive. Going crazy with mods on a daily driver is a bad idea. These cars are very fast at 300whp, which you can achieve on stock twins.

Just fyi, the braps from a bridgeport are caused when the exhaust pulse and intake pulse overlaps as the rotor spins. It sounds cool but also means that unburnt fuel is being dumped directly in to the exhaust resulting in poorer fuel economy. Probably not what you want in a daily.
Old 03-10-17, 08:40 AM
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If you dont care about performance, and sound is all you care about, you should invest in a nice stereo, and recorded engine sounds. This should allow you to hear exactly what you want. In fact, you can even hear them in the comfort of your home.

One of the most juvenile threads I have seen in a long time.
Old 03-10-17, 10:10 AM
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Take off stock bov hose or get a bov for 100. Make your own true cold air intake, get a downpipe, high flow cat, catback set the boost to 10psi max and enjoy. You'll have 275rwho gaining 50rwhp and can avoid an ecu and dangerous tuning.
That's where I'd leave it and it'll be fun and reliable and sound great. Do some road racing or mountain carving for fun
Save your money for coilovers and nice rims cause stock rims are too small and date the car
Old 03-10-17, 10:31 AM
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Don't blame me for loving those sounds. Makes me smile every time i hear it.
I want my car to look and sound tastefully good, but il take your advice as you guys have more experience.
I guess no porting then. Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it.
I'll into the other mods recommended.
Old 03-10-17, 11:39 AM
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I understand your desire for the "cool" sounds but PLEASE start with reliability mods and learn about your car first

Once you have done this and really understand what it takes to modify these cars you will then learn just how many supporting modifications and how much money it takes to bridgeport and FD for that BRAP BRAP we all love.

Good luck with your build,
Tom
Old 03-10-17, 12:00 PM
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Ill

Question How to get the most out of your stock car?
Im a noob when it comes to the engines and performance mods.
I own a 13B Twin turbo fd, everything is stock. It is a 97 limited edition type RS-R Manual. It's my daily and only car so do not want to push to the limit.

I have 3 main requests.
I want the brap sound, turbo spool sound and advice on things i should do to improve performance.

Im not going to drag it or race it.
From what i read from past threads half bridge port for the brap and remove the hose from bov to airbox, some say replace it with an aftermarket bov though im not sure which is better and which give a better sound.
Please help me out.


Misleading thread title.
This is not a request to get the most out of the car, but how to be a hard parker.

There is a way to get the rotary brap brap and some poor driveability without affecting performance (so no need for further upgrades).

It is the infamous "drill port" that adds exhaust into the intake without any of the positive affects of overlap.


Basically, tell the shop doing your rebuild to start doing a bridge port and then stop at step 1.

To get more over-running and flames you can simply introduce a moderate exhaust leak between the mid pipe and cat back exhaust flanges. Just disassemble the flange, cut a 1/2" notch out the bottom of the gasket and reassemble the flange.

To get the BOV sound- as noted just open air vent the stock BOV.

You can further alter the sound by adding duck calls or plugging the BOV entirely so you get some nice compressor surge noises.
Old 03-10-17, 04:36 PM
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POtY nom.
Old 03-11-17, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII

Ill

Question How to get the most out of your stock car?
Im a noob when it comes to the engines and performance mods.
I own a 13B Twin turbo fd, everything is stock. It is a 97 limited edition type RS-R Manual. It's my daily and only car so do not want to push to the limit.

I have 3 main requests.
I want the brap sound, turbo spool sound and advice on things i should do to improve performance.

Im not going to drag it or race it.
From what i read from past threads half bridge port for the brap and remove the hose from bov to airbox, some say replace it with an aftermarket bov though im not sure which is better and which give a better sound.
Please help me out.


Misleading thread title.
This is not a request to get the most out of the car, but how to be a hard parker.

There is a way to get the rotary brap brap and some poor driveability without affecting performance (so no need for further upgrades).

It is the infamous "drill port" that adds exhaust into the intake without any of the positive affects of overlap.


Basically, tell the shop doing your rebuild to start doing a bridge port and then stop at step 1.

To get more over-running and flames you can simply introduce a moderate exhaust leak between the mid pipe and cat back exhaust flanges. Just disassemble the flange, cut a 1/2" notch out the bottom of the gasket and reassemble the flange.

To get the BOV sound- as noted just open air vent the stock BOV.

You can further alter the sound by adding duck calls or plugging the BOV entirely so you get some nice compressor surge noises.
Will definitely look into it
Haven't heard of "drill port"before. Searched the forum but came up with nothing. Searched on google, led me to another forum but the links in there seems to be dead. Do you have any links?
Need to look into the pros and cons beforehand.
Old 03-11-17, 08:18 AM
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No pros...only cons.
Things are becoming troll-like.
Old 03-11-17, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ill
Will definitely look into it
Haven't heard of "drill port"before. Searched the forum but came up with nothing. Searched on google, led me to another forum but the links in there seems to be dead. Do you have any links?
Need to look into the pros and cons beforehand.

He's being facetious
Old 03-11-17, 02:19 PM
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No, I am telling him how to achieve what he wants.

Drill porting really does give you the bridge port idle and driveability issues from intake charge dillution with exhaust and the resultant miss-fires wile offering no performance increase so it can be run on stock everything else.
Old 03-12-17, 08:49 PM
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Hahaha reading these comments... you guys have no chill at all.

Ill,
I understand why you want those sounds. I too really enjoy the idle of a bridgeport and all the other tunery sounds possible. Listen to what people are saying about reliability; if this wasn't your daily I would say go all out but in this instance you should be modding for reliability since its your daily.




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