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Does anyone know if there are any stock capacity o-ringed cast aluminium oil pans for our cars? I currently have a stock pan with a brace and stiffed engine mounts that has been leaking.
What I am looking for:
1- A reliable fix for oil leaks, from pan and engine mount brackets (I believe a cast pan that takes an o-ring is best)
2- A solid pan that will stiffen up the engine
3- A pan that doesn't drops lower than the subframe (don't want to worry about a direct hit from a speedbump/road debris)
4- Baffles to control oil movement
5- Finns that will help with heat dissipation (this is a nice to have)
All the ones I've found to date have all been higher capacity and such don't meet requirement #3, and frankly given the roads where I live, I don't want to take the risk of breaking the pan and dumping out all the oil in a matter of seconds.
After having a cast aluminium pan smash back in the bad old days of Italian cars -
(I believe a cast pan that takes an o-ring is best)
I'd say a wrought aluminium one is better!
Doubt there is anything you describe in stock capacity. The one here was homemade in 6061, if the surface is flat, no need for O rings, not dealing with 20ga recycled japanese tin cans needing sump braces - you can jack the car up via the pan and it's oil tight.
Honestly, I'd like to avoid the chance of it leaking again, and I'm not convinced the OEM design was a good one. I also like the idea of a solid pan that will provide additional structural rigidity to the engine.
Wrought aluminium sounds like a nice option too.
Any thoughts where I can find something like this?
^Havent bothered to check but if it’s increased capacity it almost has to hang lower.
And I think the pan brace adds rigidity. If you can find one or contact him directly, Garfinkle made the best pan brace hands down IMO. I think a good sealant and a brace is the way to go for a streeted car.
Bacon/Winchester pan is aluminum, with thick/stiff flange, o-ringed, baffled with trap doors but doesn't have a spot for the level sensor. it's higher capacity but i don't think it goes lower than the subframe.
If you are mainly wanting baffles and added block rigidity, get a piece of 10mm thick billet aluminium machined to shape with some holes cut for the oil return. This will also act as a baffle.
I got one made as a one-off from an engineering shop in New Zealand for WAY less than the asking cost of these sumps. I even got a grooved machined into it for a Viton o-ring to help with sealing. The 10mm thick plate will have substantially more stiffness than any of the options outlined above. The oil pan brace will help seal the sump, but it will sweet F.A. to stiffen the block.
Here's mine. It's for an FC setup, but principle is the same. It will have the engine mount 10mm higher, but I will offset this through suitable modifications to the engine mounting. Also, importantly, the sump won't sit any lower than factory.
Len Bacon has been making a nice aluminum oil pan for a while. But, many of the aftermarket pans are more aimed at race cars. Many times they don't have a provision for an oil level sender.
Google around, I know he has a Facebook page. He's a good dude.
If you are mainly wanting baffles and added block rigidity, get a piece of 10mm thick billet aluminium machined to shape with some holes cut for the oil return. This will also act as a baffle.
I got one made as a one-off from an engineering shop in New Zealand for WAY less than the asking cost of these sumps. I even got a grooved machined into it for a Viton o-ring to help with sealing. The 10mm thick plate will have substantially more stiffness than any of the options outlined above. The oil pan brace will help seal the sump, but it will sweet F.A. to stiffen the block.
@KYPREO - Just to confirm I understood what you did, are you attaching the stock pan to the machined plate you had made?
Originally Posted by DaleClark
Len Bacon has been making a nice aluminum oil pan for a while. But, many of the aftermarket pans are more aimed at race cars. Many times they don't have a provision for an oil level sender.
Google around, I know he has a Facebook page. He's a good dude.
@Dale - Len's stuff is pretty sweet, I almost pulled the trigger on one of his last pan's, but wasn't sure about how low it sat so held off. I'll message him and see what he has to say, it is a higher capacity so I'm expecting it to sit a little lower.
Originally Posted by neit_jnf
Bacon/Winchester pan is aluminum, with thick/stiff flange, o-ringed, baffled with trap doors but doesn't have a spot for the level sensor. it's higher capacity but i don't think it goes lower than the subframe.
@neit_jnf - Thanks - Didn't know about these Winchester guys!
@KYPREO - Just to confirm I understood what you did, are you attaching the stock pan to the machined plate you had made?
Yes, the plate sandwiches between the engine block and the oil pan (I use the word sump, as that is the usual terminology in Australia). It is primarily a baffle plate to prevent sloshing as well as preventing aeration by slowing the return of oil to the sump. At this thickness, it is also designed to help provide block stiffness and resist twisting. I don't believe it would be as effective as higher tensile studs or additional dowels, but it will be more effective than the thin baffle plates available off the shelf (from Racing Beat and Mazdatrix for example), which are typically 3mm thick.
The oil pan braces, typically being only 4.7mm thick and only encircling the sump, are only really intended to resist engine flexing insofar as it might lead oil leaks.
B2A (Built to Apex) also has a nice looking aluminum oil pan for FD, and they seem to be able to do custom work if you want the oil level sensor retained, etc. Just fyi.
Yes, the plate sandwiches between the engine block and the oil pan (I use the word sump, as that is the usual terminology in Australia). It is primarily a baffle plate to prevent sloshing as well as preventing aeration by slowing the return of oil to the sump. At this thickness, it is also designed to help provide block stiffness and resist twisting. I don't believe it would be as effective as higher tensile studs or additional dowels, but it will be more effective than the thin baffle plates available off the shelf (from Racing Beat and Mazdatrix for example), which are typically 3mm thick.
The oil pan braces, typically being only 4.7mm thick and only encircling the sump, are only really intended to resist engine flexing insofar as it might lead oil leaks.
Just as an FYI one of the largest reasons FDs tend to leak as often as they do is that when full the oil level sits ABOVE the top of the pan. With your config (on an FD, I've used windage trays in plenty of FC setups) you'd have 2 sealing surfaces to deal with if you fill to the prescribed 5 quarts. May be minor but its definitely something to consider when thinking about aftermarket pans/setups.
Yes, the plate sandwiches between the engine block and the oil pan
If the goal is to stop leaks, seems like you just doubled the amount of surface area that needs sealing.
Originally Posted by KYPREO
The oil pan braces, typically being only 4.7mm thick and only encircling the sump, are only really intended to resist engine flexing insofar as it might lead oil leaks.
You could go full crazy... I work at a machine shop, and we had a customer who made an oil pan out of 7075 aluminum, machined down to shape. That thing was a beast, all for the low low price of $8500
Just as an FYI one of the largest reasons FDs tend to leak as often as they do is that when full the oil level sits ABOVE the top of the pan. With your config (on an FD, I've used windage trays in plenty of FC setups) you'd have 2 sealing surfaces to deal with if you fill to the prescribed 5 quarts. May be minor but its definitely something to consider when thinking about aftermarket pans/setups.
Thanks, I wasn't aware that. I do remember Racing Beat or another shop cautioning people to ensure oil level was not overfilled when using a baffle plate. To clarify, my setup is on an FC block/oil pan. I've used the same kind of plate on early setups with front mounted engine. No problems with sealing on either of these setups, but FD may be different. My new setup has the o-ring on the engine side
Originally Posted by Sgtblue
If the goal is to stop leaks, seems like you just doubled the amount of surface area that needs sealing.
Exactly.
The OP listed one of his criteria as stiffening an engine block. My point was that if you want to really stiffen the block, this is one way to do it without having to rebuild the engine with improved studs or dowels. If you want to stop leaks, this is a completely different goal. Those oil pan braces will likely help prevent oil pan leaks, but they won't really help stiffen the block to prevent engine damage from twisting etc.
As for double sealing point, my plate has Viton o-ring on the engine side and is a perfect flat edge that won't deform. Sealing on the engine side has never been an issue for me using these plates. It's still always the sump side that's the problem. But my goal was different. I don't have problems with sealing. I simply wanted something to prevent sloshing, de-aerate oil and improve the rigidity of the engine.
I have a Bacon pan and it does not hang below the subframe noticeably. I’d say it’s pretty flush with the bottom of it. It will raise your motor position though if you’re using stock engine mounts or equivalent.
You could go full crazy... I work at a machine shop, and we had a customer who made an oil pan out of 7075 aluminum, machined down to shape. That thing was a beast, all for the low low price of $8500
I promise, that thing will not leak
Must be a lot of machine time using something like a 1mm ball endmill you'd think. The lump of 7075 would only be in the 100s not thousands, even in this backwater.
The one here increases capacity by roughly 50%, base of the sump is level with the bottom of the subframe, most vulnerable point is the oil drain bung, but I see the commercial ones just drill and tap into the base. Spoon drains....or if you had them over there....something like a silent cop, might cause issues in a worst case situation.
There was a recent discussion regarding these pans and oil level sensors too -
Aluminium Oil Pan Suggestions?
