SPOautos

Yea, seems i have a leak somewhere. I've checked all my visible lines. I was driving and the car was fine, they out of the blue no boost on secondary after transition. I get strong boost on pri turbo then when transition is supposed to kick in I get what sounds like a big rush of air and no boost.

Damn, sucks too I was planning on running Fri night at the drag strip. Oh well, I doubt I'll be fixed by then.

Anyway, I was just wondering what seems to be the usual suspect so I can start there. I feel like its a hose poped off but I can see any. The rush of air sound is pretty loud, almost sounds like a IC hose has poped off but they are all on and if that was the case I wouldnt have pri turbo boost.

Thanks Guys

SPOautos

Ok, I see all you guys passing me up hehe

I know a few of you had the 10 ro 12 -0-0 boost prob....what cured it???

I know there is a **** load of stuff to test but first I want to check what cured others

BTW - I really just typed this to bump me up

Thanks,

spyfish007

SPOautos . . . I've tried calling you on the mobile but your phone is off or out of area . . . try looking at your CRV. If is has a leak then all boost will go out when the secondary kicks in . . . but it is not in the loop when the primary is only one spinning.

jr

If it's a loud whoosh sound coming from the glove box area check all the rubber couplers especially the one on the Y-Pipe crossover tube. Check the crossover tube itself for cracks too. Good luck.

spyfish007

If he is making 12 lbs of boost at some point . . . then you really have to think that the y-pipe coupler is on tight otherwise he wouldn't even get 12 lbs of boost on the primary.

jr

Yeah, I was thinking that, but what else would make a loud whoosh sound? Would a leaky CRV really vent ALL the boost?

spyfish007

Well if the CRV has a crack in the hose to the y-pipe or if it is not closing after 4500 rpm it has more than enough capacity to vent all the air and send you back to the slow zone .... no boost! A cheap and dirty way to test this is to put a cap over the y-pipe where the CRV connects. Run the car up to like 5000 without hitting WOT or even 3/4 throttle and then step on it. If you get boost, then you know the CRV is leaking and you need to troubleshoot it. The reason for running it up to 5000 first is two fold. First this method essential bypass what the CRV does ... bleeds off the boost when the secondary is pre-spooling ... this is hard on the turbo if it has no where to vent the compressed air. Second it puts you in the middle of the problem boost area -- bypassing the transition all together.

spooledUP7

spyfish has a point, but I doubt tht it is your actual CRV causing the direct problem.
There are a few "small hoses" regular vacuum line hose that receive full boost pressure and if popped off would cause secondary problems.

The number one hose is the one that comes off the y-pipe to the pressure tank.

Number two is any of the hoses that lead from the furthest hose back on the Y-pipe to the charge control valve (CCV) that's mounted in the middle of the y-pipe.

Third would be to the CRV, the vacuum line and not the 1" hose.

The CCV, and CRV both experience vacuum and boost pressure through their lines and if one popps, then there will be no secondary merging.

My best guess is that the CCV vacuum hose popped off either on the Back of the Y-pipe or on the intake manifold nipple.

It should be a pretty quick problem to find. ASk zoomspeed, I believe he found it very quickly.

spyfish007

I too also doubt that the CRV is the actual problem . . . but more the control of the CRV . . . . also up to bat is the CCV and turbo control-so agreed! However in his description of the problem he described lack of power and a big whoooshh sounds; therefore I suspect CRV system first.

SPOautos

Great help guys!!!!! I've never had a boost prob with my car so I havent had to deal with all these hoses and valves. I wouldnt suppose that someone would happen to have some good pics of all this stuff showing where they are. Will I need to get under the car to see most of them around the Y pipe??? I guess so, maybe when I get under the car they will show themselves. I was looking last night from above and couldnt see much.

I'll get under the car after work today and see what I find. Hopefully its just a hose or something thats popped off.

BTW - I did try running up to 5K and then gassing it and got nothing. No matter what i do it wont boost over 4.5K and it sounds like a big rush of air similar to when a IC pipe comes off.

Thanks for all the help guys, keep it coming!!!!!

SPOautos

Ok, on my way to work I tried a few things to see what it would do.

Here is the deal......

Up to 4.5K i get full boost, at the 4.5 point my boost goes away and I get a rush of air sound. If i keep going to say 5.5 then switch gears the rpms drop to say 3K but i have no boost on the pri turbo. Then if I push in the clutch and coast a few seconds I get my boost back on the primary.

In summery if I keep going thru the rush of air I loose all my boost pri and sec. If I let if coast a idle for a minute I get my pri back.

Maybe that will help you guys if you can make sence of it.

Spyfish007 - email me at SJWhite2000@aol.com and I'll email back my cell #.....maybe I transposed a # last time or something.

Thanks,
STEPHEN

50tooslow

It sounds like to me that it is the CRV. My reasoning for this is basicly what spyfish said. The CRV vents of the pressure the second turbo is producing during pre-spool. Once the charge control opens the CRV closes allowing the boost from the secondary to join with the primary so that the volume of air is increased. But if the CRV was not closing at this point it would act as the BOV and just vent your boost to open air. Now I am led to think this is your problem because you aid you hear a rush of air at change over. This would be the CCV(charge control) opening and the boost pressure from the secondary and primary rushing out. Now to explain loosing the primary boost when shifting. The way the system works is once the change over has taken place the rpms have to drop below a certain point ( not sure exactly what it is but considerably under 4500) befor the CCV is closed and the tubo acuator is closed so all exaust is going to the primary and you are back to pri. boostng. This is why it does not have boost when you shift, but if you push in the clutch the rpms drop below the reset level and you ar back to pri. boosting. Now from what is sounds like you did not do the test exactly like spyfish told you. You did not plug the CRV before doing the test. I would almost bet that if you do the test like spyfish told you you will regain boost. The next task is finding why the CRV is staying open. This has to be from a vacuum hose some where or a broken CRV itself. Hopefully it is not under the extension manifold . But I hope this helps.

SPOautos

Well, the previous post wasnt really the spyfish007 test, just some observations I made on the way to work this morning. I did however do the spyfish test on my lunch hour since its quick and easy. I removed the crv and plugged the line. I took the rpms up to 5500 without hitting and boost on the way. Then i proceeded to give it about 1/2 throttle.......nothing, zilch, zero boost. Damn, I was hoping I had localized the problem but no it cant be that easy.

While I had my intake hoses and crv off I checked all the other little hoses on the Y pipi and that cannester thing and where some plug into the intake wall thing. I also checked the 2 lines with pills in them. Everything seems good, my car only has 35K miles and has had very free exhaust since 7K miles so my hoses are nice and plyable (sp?), them seem to be in very good shape.

My guess is its something under the intake manifold......I've never taken it off before, is there anything I should know or so you guys have more thing for me to look at besides pulling the intake off???

Thanks,

spyfish007

oh yeah ... don't get on it too hard when you have a boost leak. The turbos will overspin trying to get the desired boost pressure and that is not good. I am lead to believe that your turbo control actuator, solenoid, or associated vacuum lines are the basis of the problem. When you did the test did you still hear the rush of air?

SPOautos

Latest update: I was going to take off the manifold but decided since I didnt have any antifreeze and it was too late to go get some I'd just look and see what i could without pulling the manifold. I removed my tower strut and the black chanber that sits right in front of the manifold and shined up in there with a flashlight. I saw a hose right in front that was poped off. I aplied some adhisive and put the hose back on.

My second turbo is now working fine!!!!! However, it still istn boosting as high as its supposed to. Before I was running about 13 and now I'm running about 10-11 and when I approach 7-8psi it sounds like my bov is open or something. Anyideas what that could be??? I pulled the bov and blew in it to see if the air would go thru but it was solid and didnt let any air thru.

I'm going to play with it some in the morning but does anyone have a idea as to what I should be looking for???

Thanks,

spooledUP7

Ok, the CRV is ruled out. Now let's go to the next step.

Tee in your boost gauge to the nipple that is the furthest back on the Y-pipe closest to the firewall. This is the pressure supply for both the CRV and the CCV durning sequential unity.

This test will tell you if you are getting any prespooling of the secondary turbo. My guess is that you are because of the wooshing sound.

You should see pressure begin to build at 3000 to 4000 RPM. No one argue this, it is fact, and yes the CRV is venting during this time, but you will still see boost.

If you are seeing boost then do this next test.

Tee your boost gauge into the Charge Control Actuator hose that leads toward the manifold and not the y-pipe.

You should see vacuum under 4500 rpm and positive pressure up to 11 psi after 4500 rpm.

This test will tell you if the charge control valve is getting pressure to hold the Charge Control Valve door closed. If you saw the vacuum but no pressure then you have a hose loose not from the Charge Control solenoid to the Charge control actuator but rather from the hose between the first test nipple to the Charge Control Solenoid. Fix this hose and get your boost back.

If you did not see any boost during the first test then you have a prespool problem as well as a Turbo Control Problem.

If you saw boost with the first test then you know, for fact, that the precontrol is working properly and that your TCA is now at fault.

Test the TCA. Test the TCA. Test the TCA. If you don't then you are leaving a big possibility unchecked.

If you didn't see boost with the first test then you need to test your precontrol actuator.

Test the precontrol actuator by applying manual pressure (using a hand pump) to the precontrol actuator and make sure that the rod retracts fully and stays retracted until you release the pressure.
If it stays fully retracted make sure that it is also moving the arm on the turbo manifold that connects to the precontroller door.

If the Precontrol actuator leaks down then you either have a leaking hose on either side of the actuator, a leaking actuator, or a leaking control solenoid. Replace what's need in this case.

If the precontrol actuator fully retracts and the door arm moves, and there is 0 leak down on the actuator then you can narrow it down to the solenoid or the secondary turbo. Test the solenoid by applying 12 volts directly to it while pressurizing the precontrol actuator. You should loose all pressure when voltage is applied.

If the solenoid works, first make sure the electrical harness is free from corrosion and that it clicks into the solenoid firmly. If everything checks out fine but you still have no boost then you need to check your turbo.

You will need to pull the secondary turbo inlet and try to spin the turbos with your fingers. The turbo should spin very easily and should only have very little sided to side and up and down play. Ther should be no endplay, but if it spins easy this would not keep the turbo from making boost.

Don't forget to plug the nipple that the boost gauge was plugged into during tests.

spooledUP7

While I was writing the above long narrative Spoautos had updated his new findings so I didn't get to see his results until I already posted.

I just want to say, that didn't I call it the first time? Number one problem is that hose.

Sorry for basking in my own glory, but it just feels good to hit it sometimes and not just sound like I'm talking out of my ***. Even if none paid attention.

SPOautos

Since you didnt see my post till after yours does that change what I should test??? Should I leave some of that stuff out or still test it all???

Oh yea, when you say 'T" into the line I think of cutting the hose inserting a "T" and plugging my boost gause into the "T".....is this what your saying or do you just mean pull the hose off its nipple and replace it with my boost gauge.

Thanks for the help man!!!! I hope your still online and car answer!!!

Later,

spyfish007

I give you both a good

migamb

I had the same exact problem. No boost after 4500 and the loud whooshing sound. I am still having some problmes getting full boost and still troubleshooting but I solved the problme you are having. I took of the manifold for me it was not that difficult since I have done it plenty on times. Both the CRV and CCV hoses had popped off. These are the bottom two. They were fine on the turbo side of the manifold but on the inside of the manifold they had popped off. They way I got to this is that when you start the car the CCA arm is supposed to be pulled in therefore closing the butterfly in the Y pipe and isolating the 2nd turbo mine was not. After removing the manifold I replaced some other hoses that were questionable and also found that 3 of the 4 hoses for the PC and WG solenoids had tears in them. Taking the manifold off will let you see a lot of hoses you can not see with just the pressure tank off. All I do to remove it is take the elbow off, 4 nuts take the TB off 4 acorn nuts two coolant hose connections, I lost very little coolant since the car had been off overnight there was none in the line. Then the manifold is 4 acorn nuts and one big acorn bolt and then just the vaccum hoses and 3 plugs underneath. This is a very brief summary got to the robinette site and there is a detailed explanation on removing it. Good luck.

spooledUP7

Those test were really designed to find your main problem under the assumption that you already tested the earlier post and found nothing. If you read the post above this one you will notice that all the areas I was showing you to test would have come up negative in results and thus would have pointed you to the real problems.

By Teeing in I meant that you remove the "to be tested" hose from the actuator nipple and slip on another hose on the actuator nipple and then hook your boost gauge into the two hoses using a T fitting. No cutting of hoses.

I would still test your TCA. There is a good chance that there is a leak somewhere in the system. Isolate the Turbo Control Actuator first and look for leaks. There should be none, zip, zilch leaking. I posted some testing procedures earlier in another post which is now on the 3rdgen Archive. "Low Boost" i think it's called. There I outlined one way to test the TCA system.

Good luck

SPOautos

Thanks, maybe some of those tests listed above by Spooled 7 will help me identify whats wrong without pulling the manifold.

Thanks,