What intake do you recommend?
02-04-02, 09:33 PM
#1
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What intake do you recommend?
I was wondering what intakes you guys have and what you'd recommend. I'd prefer something that can bolt onto the stock and doesn't have any fitment issues or need any modifications. This is for a street car as well, not for autocross or drag racing. I already have a SS DP. Will the addition of an upgraded intake require ECU changes or am I ok with the stock ECU with just the intake/DP combo?
02-04-02, 09:44 PM
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The M2 Intake is the best one out there. It's pretty as well as functional. It will replace the stock airbox with no major fitment issues. If you just have a DP then you will be OK without an ECU but if you decide to go further an ECU mod is HIGHLY recommended.
Paul
www.aimtuning.com
Paul
www.aimtuning.com
02-04-02, 10:03 PM
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ive got the apexi power intake. havent installed it yet but its supposedly the best open air intake out there. the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower, its kinda like running a marathon and breathing through a straw. it will NOT flow as much air as the apexi will. sure youll be pulling in hotter air but the turbos heat up air neways, its up to a good intercooler to cool the air and not the intake to pull in slightly cooler air. it even looks great, especially if you have a red car. if anyone wants some pics then i can take some 
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
02-05-02, 01:05 AM
#7
Originally posted by 1bad7
ive got the apexi power intake. havent installed it yet but its supposedly the best open air intake out there. the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower, its kinda like running a marathon and breathing through a straw. it will NOT flow as much air as the apexi will. sure youll be pulling in hotter air but the turbos heat up air neways, its up to a good intercooler to cool the air and not the intake to pull in slightly cooler air. it even looks great, especially if you have a red car. if anyone wants some pics then i can take some
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
ive got the apexi power intake. havent installed it yet but its supposedly the best open air intake out there. the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower, its kinda like running a marathon and breathing through a straw. it will NOT flow as much air as the apexi will. sure youll be pulling in hotter air but the turbos heat up air neways, its up to a good intercooler to cool the air and not the intake to pull in slightly cooler air. it even looks great, especially if you have a red car. if anyone wants some pics then i can take some
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
The M2 intake fits like a glove if installed properly. Problem is, it doesn't include instructions and most people don't bother to read the writeups others have done. From dynos I've seen, the Apexi will generate less hp than the M2, esp. with a closed hood on a stock setup. Another problem with hot intakes on relatively stock cars is the constantly higher engine temps that result. Thus, there's a much higher probability of cooking the engine in certain situations(reference Mazda's own testing and subsequent '99 model changes)
On a stock car with just a SS dp, the M2 intake, N-Tech FAIS, RX-7 Fashion intake, and possibly the Knight Sports design would be the way to go. Should be ok w/o an ECU upgrade but its marginal at that point.
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02-05-02, 03:48 AM
#8
does anyone have any numbers that can back up the difference between the apexi power intake and the m2 performance. i was almost sold on the M2 until i talked to jason at the rx7 store. he said that the turbos will be heating the cooler air back up so dont bother spending the extra dough on the M2. granted he does not sell the M2 and does sell the apexi he may be leading me on. i chatted with him for some time and i do believe he is fair enough to tell you what is good, decent, and crap. i may be going with the apexi now cause its cheaper, and what is the use of CAI if you will be putting it through the oven??? im not saying that the m2 inst superior, but like anything else, lets see cold hard facts of who the real winner is. no more he said she said BS.
kris
kris
02-05-02, 07:10 AM
#9
Originally posted by 1bad7
ive got the apexi power intake. havent installed it yet but its supposedly the best open air intake out there. the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower, its kinda like running a marathon and breathing through a straw. it will NOT flow as much air as the apexi will. sure youll be pulling in hotter air but the turbos heat up air neways, its up to a good intercooler to cool the air and not the intake to pull in slightly cooler air. it even looks great, especially if you have a red car. if anyone wants some pics then i can take some
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
ive got the apexi power intake. havent installed it yet but its supposedly the best open air intake out there. the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower, its kinda like running a marathon and breathing through a straw. it will NOT flow as much air as the apexi will. sure youll be pulling in hotter air but the turbos heat up air neways, its up to a good intercooler to cool the air and not the intake to pull in slightly cooler air. it even looks great, especially if you have a red car. if anyone wants some pics then i can take some
ive also heard of people having fitment probs with the M2, just a word of advice
The M2 has NO flow problem like the stock intake, The whole is huge in the bottom of the intake and in combination with car moving, it gets a ton of air. Now the apexi may suck lots of air but it is super heated air and you have to have a really good IC to compensate for the super heated air from the open intake.
02-05-02, 07:12 AM
#10
Originally posted by JspecFD
On a relatively stock car, the M2 intake is far superior to the Apexi. Please reference SCC's intake temperature tests(before and after the turbos) if you don't think intake temperature is relevent. In fact, with the inefficient stock IC, lower intake temps are even more important. Furthermore, the flow rates between the K+N cones and Apexi filters is marginal at best and largely irrelevent at lower boost levels(referenceing GTR intake tests) Also, there's no such thing as a 'magical' 100% efficient IC to perfectly cool the air.
The M2 intake fits like a glove if installed properly. Problem is, it doesn't include instructions and most people don't bother to read the writeups others have done. From dynos I've seen, the Apexi will generate less hp than the M2, esp. with a closed hood on a stock setup. Another problem with hot intakes on relatively stock cars is the constantly higher engine temps that result. Thus, there's a much higher probability of cooking the engine in certain situations(reference Mazda's own testing and subsequent '99 model changes)
On a stock car with just a SS dp, the M2 intake, N-Tech FAIS, RX-7 Fashion intake, and possibly the Knight Sports design would be the way to go. Should be ok w/o an ECU upgrade but its marginal at that point.
On a relatively stock car, the M2 intake is far superior to the Apexi. Please reference SCC's intake temperature tests(before and after the turbos) if you don't think intake temperature is relevent. In fact, with the inefficient stock IC, lower intake temps are even more important. Furthermore, the flow rates between the K+N cones and Apexi filters is marginal at best and largely irrelevent at lower boost levels(referenceing GTR intake tests) Also, there's no such thing as a 'magical' 100% efficient IC to perfectly cool the air.
The M2 intake fits like a glove if installed properly. Problem is, it doesn't include instructions and most people don't bother to read the writeups others have done. From dynos I've seen, the Apexi will generate less hp than the M2, esp. with a closed hood on a stock setup. Another problem with hot intakes on relatively stock cars is the constantly higher engine temps that result. Thus, there's a much higher probability of cooking the engine in certain situations(reference Mazda's own testing and subsequent '99 model changes)
On a stock car with just a SS dp, the M2 intake, N-Tech FAIS, RX-7 Fashion intake, and possibly the Knight Sports design would be the way to go. Should be ok w/o an ECU upgrade but its marginal at that point.
Do you plan to take your car to a track (ie road coarse)?
02-05-02, 07:20 AM
#11
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Originally posted by suprfast
does anyone have any numbers that can back up the difference between the apexi power intake and the m2 performance. i was almost sold on the M2 until i talked to jason at the rx7 store. he said that the turbos will be heating the cooler air back up so dont bother spending the extra dough on the M2. granted he does not sell the M2 and does sell the apexi he may be leading me on. i chatted with him for some time and i do believe he is fair enough to tell you what is good, decent, and crap. i may be going with the apexi now cause its cheaper, and what is the use of CAI if you will be putting it through the oven??? im not saying that the m2 inst superior, but like anything else, lets see cold hard facts of who the real winner is. no more he said she said BS.
kris
does anyone have any numbers that can back up the difference between the apexi power intake and the m2 performance. i was almost sold on the M2 until i talked to jason at the rx7 store. he said that the turbos will be heating the cooler air back up so dont bother spending the extra dough on the M2. granted he does not sell the M2 and does sell the apexi he may be leading me on. i chatted with him for some time and i do believe he is fair enough to tell you what is good, decent, and crap. i may be going with the apexi now cause its cheaper, and what is the use of CAI if you will be putting it through the oven??? im not saying that the m2 inst superior, but like anything else, lets see cold hard facts of who the real winner is. no more he said she said BS.
kris
If you plan on keeping it stock w/ the stock IC perhapes M2 is the way you want to go. I have debating over this for a long time and I have finally decided what I'm going to do. I REALLY want a FMIC... some of the resaon is because it's a show car and a track car. I don't really like the RX7Fashion FMIC or the streetfighter (or whatever it's call) and those are the only 2 FMIC's that work w/ a cold air intake box. So I have decided to go w/ the Apexi intake and Apexi FMIC. I feel that w/ all the other mods I've got going on my FMIC will cool the air enough for me. There are alot of people running an open intake and it works for them. There are alot of people running a CAI and it works for them. It's really a hard choice but you gotta go w/ what you like and feel comfortable w/ on your car.
02-05-02, 09:23 AM
#12
I do believe the cold air intakes are better for the most part. Think about it, why do we get more boost in cooler weather? Cooler air is always better.
However, I don't think that they offer THAT much of a difference over most open intakes (depending on how the intake is installed). If I lived in a climate that was hot a majority of the time (someplace like in Texas or Arizona), I would put my money into a cold air intake.
Chaz, you are in my neck of the woods, and while it does get hot here in the summer, I don't think that a cold air intake will make THAT much of a difference. If you want to be on the safe side (people say open intakes kill air pumps), get a cold air intake. However if it was me, I would get an open intake and use the cash from the price difference to get an extra gauge or two for your car (which I did).
However, I don't think that they offer THAT much of a difference over most open intakes (depending on how the intake is installed). If I lived in a climate that was hot a majority of the time (someplace like in Texas or Arizona), I would put my money into a cold air intake.
Chaz, you are in my neck of the woods, and while it does get hot here in the summer, I don't think that a cold air intake will make THAT much of a difference. If you want to be on the safe side (people say open intakes kill air pumps), get a cold air intake. However if it was me, I would get an open intake and use the cash from the price difference to get an extra gauge or two for your car (which I did).
02-05-02, 09:40 AM
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When I first started I got the Bonez SS DP and the Apexi Power intake. I had no problems associated with leaning out or anything like that and I also thought that the intake had extremely good flow to it. Now I don't know much about the M2 one so I can't speculate on the performance of that one.
02-05-02, 10:07 AM
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thats why i said "the M2 intake is really good and pretty but its not for you in you want max horsepower". the truth is that the apexi will significantly outflow the M2 under high boost/horsepower. and we all know that you need an upgraded IC to run higher boost so takin in slightly cooler air doesnt mean that much. if you plan on highly modding your car and still retaining the twin turbo system then go with the apexi, if you only plan on doing little things then go with the M2 and spend more money.
Originally posted by JspecFD
On a relatively stock car, the M2 intake is far superior to the Apexi. Please reference SCC's intake temperature tests(before and after the turbos) if you don't think intake temperature is relevent. In fact, with the inefficient stock IC, lower intake temps are even more important. Furthermore, the flow rates between the K+N cones and Apexi filters is marginal at best and largely irrelevent at lower boost levels(referenceing GTR intake tests) Also, there's no such thing as a 'magical' 100% efficient IC to perfectly cool the air.
The M2 intake fits like a glove if installed properly. Problem is, it doesn't include instructions and most people don't bother to read the writeups others have done. From dynos I've seen, the Apexi will generate less hp than the M2, esp. with a closed hood on a stock setup. Another problem with hot intakes on relatively stock cars is the constantly higher engine temps that result. Thus, there's a much higher probability of cooking the engine in certain situations(reference Mazda's own testing and subsequent '99 model changes)
On a stock car with just a SS dp, the M2 intake, N-Tech FAIS, RX-7 Fashion intake, and possibly the Knight Sports design would be the way to go. Should be ok w/o an ECU upgrade but its marginal at that point.
On a relatively stock car, the M2 intake is far superior to the Apexi. Please reference SCC's intake temperature tests(before and after the turbos) if you don't think intake temperature is relevent. In fact, with the inefficient stock IC, lower intake temps are even more important. Furthermore, the flow rates between the K+N cones and Apexi filters is marginal at best and largely irrelevent at lower boost levels(referenceing GTR intake tests) Also, there's no such thing as a 'magical' 100% efficient IC to perfectly cool the air.
The M2 intake fits like a glove if installed properly. Problem is, it doesn't include instructions and most people don't bother to read the writeups others have done. From dynos I've seen, the Apexi will generate less hp than the M2, esp. with a closed hood on a stock setup. Another problem with hot intakes on relatively stock cars is the constantly higher engine temps that result. Thus, there's a much higher probability of cooking the engine in certain situations(reference Mazda's own testing and subsequent '99 model changes)
On a stock car with just a SS dp, the M2 intake, N-Tech FAIS, RX-7 Fashion intake, and possibly the Knight Sports design would be the way to go. Should be ok w/o an ECU upgrade but its marginal at that point.
Last edited by 1bad7; 02-05-02 at 10:10 AM.
02-05-02, 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by Johnsrx7
What the hell are you talking about "sucking through a straw", put down the crack pipe there.
The M2 has NO flow problem like the stock intake, The whole is huge in the bottom of the intake and in combination with car moving, it gets a ton of air. Now the apexi may suck lots of air but it is super heated air and you have to have a really good IC to compensate for the super heated air from the open intake.
What the hell are you talking about "sucking through a straw", put down the crack pipe there.
The M2 has NO flow problem like the stock intake, The whole is huge in the bottom of the intake and in combination with car moving, it gets a ton of air. Now the apexi may suck lots of air but it is super heated air and you have to have a really good IC to compensate for the super heated air from the open intake.
the apexi is also extremely good looking, as good or even better then the M2 especially if you get the pipes polished like im gonna have. see for yourself
02-05-02, 11:00 AM
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To me the Apexi looks like some sort of "Borg" robot or something with its big hoses going all over the place.
If you don't mind your car knocking from sucking in hot intake air, get an unshielded intake.
The difference in restriction between something like an M2 and an open filter like the Apexi is IMO not significant unless you have totally uncorked the exhaust and have a high flow single turbo setup. If that is the case, your car is probably a show car or race car. And even if the flow is better, it's still very questionable if that would give extra power compared to a slightly more restricted intake that gets cooler air.
If it's a show car, who cares, buy what you think is pretty, it doesn't matter if the car runs or not. If you really want to use your car, look at those who know what they are doing. Road racing FD's almost always have nice cool air intakes because it is VERY important to make the engine last. Even the drag racers like Ari, Steve Kan, and others usually have nice ducted intakes.
Also, it isn't possible for an intercooler to totally "make up" for the cooling lost from the intake. Given everything else equal, if the intake air temps are higher, the air temps after the intercooler would still be higher than if there was cooler intake air. This is a fact, not my opinion, it can be proven with thermodynamics as well as by testing.
Wade
If you don't mind your car knocking from sucking in hot intake air, get an unshielded intake.
The difference in restriction between something like an M2 and an open filter like the Apexi is IMO not significant unless you have totally uncorked the exhaust and have a high flow single turbo setup. If that is the case, your car is probably a show car or race car. And even if the flow is better, it's still very questionable if that would give extra power compared to a slightly more restricted intake that gets cooler air.
If it's a show car, who cares, buy what you think is pretty, it doesn't matter if the car runs or not. If you really want to use your car, look at those who know what they are doing. Road racing FD's almost always have nice cool air intakes because it is VERY important to make the engine last. Even the drag racers like Ari, Steve Kan, and others usually have nice ducted intakes.
Also, it isn't possible for an intercooler to totally "make up" for the cooling lost from the intake. Given everything else equal, if the intake air temps are higher, the air temps after the intercooler would still be higher than if there was cooler intake air. This is a fact, not my opinion, it can be proven with thermodynamics as well as by testing.
Wade
02-05-02, 01:56 PM
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picture time, please!!!
I'm trying to decide between the Apexi and M2 intakes as well.
Keeping my car running healthy for those street races and occational track day is more important then looking pretty, but I'd still like to see pictures!!!
Thanks!
k
Keeping my car running healthy for those street races and occational track day is more important then looking pretty, but I'd still like to see pictures!!!
Thanks!
k
02-05-02, 02:44 PM
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general consensus awhile ago was that the Pettit intake was the best, ugliest but the best. it is an open and cold air intake. it is outrageously expensive, but works very well.
look at price too, if I remmeber the Apex is a few hundred dolalrs cheaper than the M2.
look at price too, if I remmeber the Apex is a few hundred dolalrs cheaper than the M2.
Last edited by KZ1; 02-05-02 at 02:47 PM.
02-05-02, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Johnsrx7
What the hell are you talking about "sucking through a straw", put down the crack pipe there.
What the hell are you talking about "sucking through a straw", put down the crack pipe there.
Originally posted by Wade
Even the drag racers like Ari, Steve Kan, and others usually have nice ducted intakes.
Even the drag racers like Ari, Steve Kan, and others usually have nice ducted intakes.
02-05-02, 03:02 PM
#24
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Sucking through a straw
Thats what tri-point said about the PFS intake but I think it blows both tri-point and M2 away. The M2 Carbon fibor is extremely "flimsy" (too thin & fragile), if you want the same box get it from Crooked Willow Racing.
They all have pluses and drawbacks. The PFS is the best design because it forces cold air and improves the original stock design, like what Racing Beat tried to do. The drawback is in between shifts, hot air can be sucked from the IC and that is why the '99-'01 have a seperate chamber to the intake.
The Blitz has the most proven flow. (check out the british site, not the US one) but no data on how clean it is. I don't know if I can beleive an Apex sponsered magazine claiming Apex is the cleanest filter...would you?
Blitz, HKS & RE Amayami are #1,#2 & #3 sold in Japan. The do have cold air system by Knight Sports but I wouldn't pay over $800 for it.
* Supposedly temperature is not a problem when the car is moving, only in traffic or idle and the intercooler cools the air after the turbo, so the engine does receive cold air anyhow.
If you really want a true force fed cold air get the Peter Farrell system, but he only wants to sell the complete kit (IC, Intake & cold air duct). His is a single huge K&N not 2 tiny ones.
The Tri-point is made of steel or aluminum...whatever, will get hotter than plastic or carbon fiber. Their version does not feed the return from the sir pump and the other thing.
I've seen the M2's get broken. Plus those filters are so tiny! Same as tri-point & crooked Willow. So you supposedly get colder air (I don't beleive it...air from under the car? and the box still gets hot?) but you loose power because the filters are too small!
The only comparison tests i've found are from sponserd magazines, so would you beleive the sponsor? ...the high performance stores also have sponsors. You can ask the race shops but chances are they only want to sell you their own product.
They all have pluses and drawbacks. The PFS is the best design because it forces cold air and improves the original stock design, like what Racing Beat tried to do. The drawback is in between shifts, hot air can be sucked from the IC and that is why the '99-'01 have a seperate chamber to the intake.
The Blitz has the most proven flow. (check out the british site, not the US one) but no data on how clean it is. I don't know if I can beleive an Apex sponsered magazine claiming Apex is the cleanest filter...would you?
Blitz, HKS & RE Amayami are #1,#2 & #3 sold in Japan. The do have cold air system by Knight Sports but I wouldn't pay over $800 for it.
* Supposedly temperature is not a problem when the car is moving, only in traffic or idle and the intercooler cools the air after the turbo, so the engine does receive cold air anyhow.
If you really want a true force fed cold air get the Peter Farrell system, but he only wants to sell the complete kit (IC, Intake & cold air duct). His is a single huge K&N not 2 tiny ones.
The Tri-point is made of steel or aluminum...whatever, will get hotter than plastic or carbon fiber. Their version does not feed the return from the sir pump and the other thing.
I've seen the M2's get broken. Plus those filters are so tiny! Same as tri-point & crooked Willow. So you supposedly get colder air (I don't beleive it...air from under the car? and the box still gets hot?) but you loose power because the filters are too small!
The only comparison tests i've found are from sponserd magazines, so would you beleive the sponsor? ...the high performance stores also have sponsors. You can ask the race shops but chances are they only want to sell you their own product.
02-05-02, 03:42 PM
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i had the crooked willow CAI..loved it..its very similar to the M2..a huge inprovment over my 2 cone filters breathing in hot ait(ie like pettit/apexi)
it breaths cold air in alog from the slot that runs down the frame and in between the rad..belive it or not when it was all installed i was extremly impressed how they got it to breathe strictly cold air..
ohh the whole ari thing u think he would send your buisness off to m2 when he sells the apexi intake?
i mean he use to run the re-amenmia way back in the day, who knows
apex may filter better but for the loss of hp by breathign hot air it wouldnt be worth it to me
i had no problmes making 15psi @ 3600-700 rpms with my old non-seq setup so its not liek the car was strugglin to breathe
it breaths cold air in alog from the slot that runs down the frame and in between the rad..belive it or not when it was all installed i was extremly impressed how they got it to breathe strictly cold air..
ohh the whole ari thing u think he would send your buisness off to m2 when he sells the apexi intake?
i mean he use to run the re-amenmia way back in the day, who knows
apex may filter better but for the loss of hp by breathign hot air it wouldnt be worth it to me
i had no problmes making 15psi @ 3600-700 rpms with my old non-seq setup so its not liek the car was strugglin to breathe