What intake do you recommend?
02-05-02, 03:46 PM
#26
Speed Mach Go Go Go
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Sorry, let me summerize
If you want the most air:
Blitz
If you want the 2nd most air but cleanest (supposedly) filter:
Apexi
Nicest budget intake:
New Greddy/Trust
Least restrictive cold air:
Pettit Racing
Most expensive but true cold air:
Knight Sports
Best setup if starting from scratch:
Peter Farrell
These are just my "personal" oppinions from spending hundreds of hours doing research on the web and talking to race shops. (damn, no spell checker on this thing)
Blitz
If you want the 2nd most air but cleanest (supposedly) filter:
Apexi
Nicest budget intake:
New Greddy/Trust
Least restrictive cold air:
Pettit Racing
Most expensive but true cold air:
Knight Sports
Best setup if starting from scratch:
Peter Farrell
These are just my "personal" oppinions from spending hundreds of hours doing research on the web and talking to race shops. (damn, no spell checker on this thing)
02-05-02, 03:48 PM
#27
OG
Ok I am chiming in too... I have the rx7fashion CAI..shaped out of aluminum and very similar to M2's box...Now someone said m2 carbon box is flimsy...that's disappointing..because I know the overall design is very well thought out. The rx7fashion CAI is very well made , has 2 large oval shaped K&N's and fitment is good. I would recommend it 110%..
02-05-02, 03:55 PM
#28
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>>...the high performance stores also have sponsors. You can ask the >>race shops but chances are they only want to sell you their own >>product
This is a correct assesment. That is why Ari and Jason like the Apex intake and not the M2. That is why Tri Point doesn't like the PFS unit and any other examples.
Here is my point of view:
PFS is good in theory but it takes air from the intercooler which obviouosly is not something you want, especially from a stock cooler.
Pettit's intake may work well but it it too ugly and cobbed looking with harware store piping and hose.
All the Japan spec open air systems are well made but the negative aspects of open air filters are too serious to overlook. Keep in mind that the filters are directly behind the radiator. That's 200 degrees of air being compressed by the turbos before it hits your engine.
M2's intake looks good, does not take air from the intercooler, flows better than "sucking air from a straw". The air it gets is ambient. A much better place to start. Keep in mind the airfilters are the same size as the Pettit unit.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but until I see unbiased data, the M2 will be my intake of choice.
Paul
This is a correct assesment. That is why Ari and Jason like the Apex intake and not the M2. That is why Tri Point doesn't like the PFS unit and any other examples.
Here is my point of view:
PFS is good in theory but it takes air from the intercooler which obviouosly is not something you want, especially from a stock cooler.
Pettit's intake may work well but it it too ugly and cobbed looking with harware store piping and hose.
All the Japan spec open air systems are well made but the negative aspects of open air filters are too serious to overlook. Keep in mind that the filters are directly behind the radiator. That's 200 degrees of air being compressed by the turbos before it hits your engine.
M2's intake looks good, does not take air from the intercooler, flows better than "sucking air from a straw". The air it gets is ambient. A much better place to start. Keep in mind the airfilters are the same size as the Pettit unit.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but until I see unbiased data, the M2 will be my intake of choice.
Paul
02-05-02, 03:59 PM
#29
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Anothe thing. M2's bos is not flimsy "it's carbon fibre". The lid is thin but the box is sturdy. It's not a fuel cell or a roll bar, it's job is to get cold air to the air filters and prevent hot air from getting to them.
Just for the record the RX-7 Fashion box is a direct rip off of the original M2 Aluminum airbox.
Paul
Just for the record the RX-7 Fashion box is a direct rip off of the original M2 Aluminum airbox.
Paul
02-05-02, 04:37 PM
#30
Senior Member
I've got both the Apex and the M2 (alum). I have had both installed in my car. I am going to a larger SMIC, so I couldn't use the Apex any more.
My intake temps on the PFC have shown NO difference (ZERO) in a wide range of driving conditions and ambient air conditions. This is mostly due to the heat soaking of the stock IC.
I can't imagine that the M2 keeps up with the Apex in flow, but there may not be a need depending on the other mods you have. Just as there may not be a need for colder air intake temps...again, depending on the rest of your mods.
My intake temps on the PFC have shown NO difference (ZERO) in a wide range of driving conditions and ambient air conditions. This is mostly due to the heat soaking of the stock IC.
I can't imagine that the M2 keeps up with the Apex in flow, but there may not be a need depending on the other mods you have. Just as there may not be a need for colder air intake temps...again, depending on the rest of your mods.
02-05-02, 05:32 PM
#32
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i should also point out that ive heard alot of bad things about the M2 products. not performance wise but quality wise. some people have complained of the fitment of both the intake and the intercoolers. they both sit too high and either hit or rub on the hood or have the piping do that. some of their stuff also needs slight modifications in order to fit properly. I'm not bashing M2, im just pointing out what ive heard over time. hell, i even had the M2 intake for a bit but then got rid of it because i had slight fitment probs with it. nothing aweful but youd expect something that costs $500 to be PERFECT. i paid $300 for the apexi and it is perfect. so its all up to you which one you want
oh, and the M2 stuff wont work with certain aftermarket hoods, particularily the scoot hood
oh, and the M2 stuff wont work with certain aftermarket hoods, particularily the scoot hood
02-05-02, 07:03 PM
#33
OG
Originally posted by PaulyDee
Anothe thing. M2's bos is not flimsy "it's carbon fibre". The lid is thin but the box is sturdy. It's not a fuel cell or a roll bar, it's job is to get cold air to the air filters and prevent hot air from getting to them.
Just for the record the RX-7 Fashion box is a direct rip off of the original M2 Aluminum airbox.
Paul
Anothe thing. M2's bos is not flimsy "it's carbon fibre". The lid is thin but the box is sturdy. It's not a fuel cell or a roll bar, it's job is to get cold air to the air filters and prevent hot air from getting to them.
Just for the record the RX-7 Fashion box is a direct rip off of the original M2 Aluminum airbox.
Paul
thank you !
02-05-02, 08:22 PM
#34
Originally posted by mmaragos
I've got both the Apex and the M2 (alum). I have had both installed in my car. I am going to a larger SMIC, so I couldn't use the Apex any more.
My intake temps on the PFC have shown NO difference (ZERO) in a wide range of driving conditions and ambient air conditions. This is mostly due to the heat soaking of the stock IC.
I can't imagine that the M2 keeps up with the Apex in flow, but there may not be a need depending on the other mods you have. Just as there may not be a need for colder air intake temps...again, depending on the rest of your mods.
I've got both the Apex and the M2 (alum). I have had both installed in my car. I am going to a larger SMIC, so I couldn't use the Apex any more.
My intake temps on the PFC have shown NO difference (ZERO) in a wide range of driving conditions and ambient air conditions. This is mostly due to the heat soaking of the stock IC.
I can't imagine that the M2 keeps up with the Apex in flow, but there may not be a need depending on the other mods you have. Just as there may not be a need for colder air intake temps...again, depending on the rest of your mods.
In that case, the only advantage of the cool intake air could be power and lower in-chamber temps. It is harder for the turbos to compress 200F air to yield 100F air at the same pressure in the manifold than it would be if you started with cold air. So, the turbos give more backpressure with the hot intake air, which reduces power and increases the temp of the air in the chamber (because more of it will be hot exhaust).
I repeat what has already been pointed out... you cannot completely make up for hot intake air with an intercooler. Even if the temps of the intake air in the manifold end up being the same (which I think is not likely, despite this report) there is another cost for hot air -- backpressure.
I like the A'PEXi filters (and use on one my single turbo), but I don't think that a hot-air intake is a good idea for any car if it can be avoided. If you saw higher dyno numbers posted for an open intake filter, think again about the testing conditions -- an open intake with the hood open is quite different from running with the hood closed.
-Max
02-05-02, 11:34 PM
#35
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How about some pics of the intakes, both open and cold air you guys have installed on your cars. I'm planning on keeping the stock IC, for now anyway so please keep this in mind when you're giving your thoughts. Thanks for all the feedback. You've given me a lot more information than I had previously and some things to think about.
02-06-02, 02:43 AM
#37
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Apexi all the way... sure it can suck in hot air, but there is always a way aleviate the stock IC inefficiency issue...just fabricate a heat shield and an air duct...sorry fellas, specs are top secret for the time being since im still perfecting the design 
02-06-02, 06:34 AM
#38
Senior Member
Originally posted by maxcooper
I don't mean to flame you, mmaragos. I am glad you did some testing and reported the results. This response is to the thread in general...
In that case, the only advantage of the cool intake air could be power and lower in-chamber temps. It is harder for the turbos to compress 200F air to yield 100F air at the same pressure in the manifold than it would be if you started with cold air. So, the turbos give more backpressure with the hot intake air, which reduces power and increases the temp of the air in the chamber (because more of it will be hot exhaust).
I repeat what has already been pointed out... you cannot completely make up for hot intake air with an intercooler. Even if the temps of the intake air in the manifold end up being the same (which I think is not likely, despite this report) there is another cost for hot air -- backpressure.
I like the A'PEXi filters (and use on one my single turbo), but I don't think that a hot-air intake is a good idea for any car if it can be avoided. If you saw higher dyno numbers posted for an open intake filter, think again about the testing conditions -- an open intake with the hood open is quite different from running with the hood closed.
-Max
I don't mean to flame you, mmaragos. I am glad you did some testing and reported the results. This response is to the thread in general...
In that case, the only advantage of the cool intake air could be power and lower in-chamber temps. It is harder for the turbos to compress 200F air to yield 100F air at the same pressure in the manifold than it would be if you started with cold air. So, the turbos give more backpressure with the hot intake air, which reduces power and increases the temp of the air in the chamber (because more of it will be hot exhaust).
I repeat what has already been pointed out... you cannot completely make up for hot intake air with an intercooler. Even if the temps of the intake air in the manifold end up being the same (which I think is not likely, despite this report) there is another cost for hot air -- backpressure.
I like the A'PEXi filters (and use on one my single turbo), but I don't think that a hot-air intake is a good idea for any car if it can be avoided. If you saw higher dyno numbers posted for an open intake filter, think again about the testing conditions -- an open intake with the hood open is quite different from running with the hood closed.
-Max
IMO, no one has done an adequate study of intakes to determine what is better for making more horsepower with the stock turbos.
We don't know if the lower intake temperatures (but resistricted flow) of a CAI will outweigh the benefit of less resistricted flow (but higher intake temps) of an open intake.
My example is not the best, because the stock intercooler is the weakest component. It cannot keep up with the rest of the system. If an adequate intercooler was in place, then there would likely be a noticable difference in intake temps between intakes as monitored by the PFC.
02-06-02, 02:39 PM
#39
Speed Mach Go Go Go
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Blitz intake
http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/maxpower2001.htm
http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/
(click on air filter button after loading above link)
http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/
(click on air filter button after loading above link)
02-06-02, 03:13 PM
#41
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+'s & -'s
Hey, I never got this many reply's when I posted this thread a while back (oh well), but glad to see it now 
Cold air boxes:
Pro:
Seperates the hot engine air from the intake and draws cooler air from underneath the car.
Con:
Air filters are too small.
M2 Carbon fiber is cooler than metal but Pettit's version has more breathing room. (not sure if CWR is metal)
Open air:
Pro:
Filters are much larger and less restrictive.
Apexi has a dual funnel and Blitz has a 4" opening
Con:
Draws hotter air when idle or in trafic.
Larger intercooler can offset that problem
Ram air:
OEM design has a restrive inlet.
Racing Beat improves and opens the inlet.
Peter Farrell improves even more with large K&N cone.
Knight Sports looks like it uses its own ducting to the nose (I can't get any more information on it)
Pro:
Forced cold air from nose when car is moving.
Con:
OEM is restrictive. The '99-'01 seperates the intake from the intercooler ducting.
RB is flimsy and over priced. PFS is a kit that comes with the small IC & pipes in to it's duct. Can suck hot radiator air "only" inbetween shifts and on idle or traffic.
Knight Sports will cost about $1,000 (ouch).
So which is best? ...probably the Knight Sports (if it's duct is seperate from the intercooler). Otherwise, since there is no comparison tests between cold air & open intake then it's a prefernece toss up.
...Again, i'm not repeating hear say. This is just my personal opinion from my own research to answer the same question.
Cold air boxes:
Pro:
Seperates the hot engine air from the intake and draws cooler air from underneath the car.
Con:
Air filters are too small.
M2 Carbon fiber is cooler than metal but Pettit's version has more breathing room. (not sure if CWR is metal)
Open air:
Pro:
Filters are much larger and less restrictive.
Apexi has a dual funnel and Blitz has a 4" opening
Con:
Draws hotter air when idle or in trafic.
Larger intercooler can offset that problem
Ram air:
OEM design has a restrive inlet.
Racing Beat improves and opens the inlet.
Peter Farrell improves even more with large K&N cone.
Knight Sports looks like it uses its own ducting to the nose (I can't get any more information on it)
Pro:
Forced cold air from nose when car is moving.
Con:
OEM is restrictive. The '99-'01 seperates the intake from the intercooler ducting.
RB is flimsy and over priced. PFS is a kit that comes with the small IC & pipes in to it's duct. Can suck hot radiator air "only" inbetween shifts and on idle or traffic.
Knight Sports will cost about $1,000 (ouch).
So which is best? ...probably the Knight Sports (if it's duct is seperate from the intercooler). Otherwise, since there is no comparison tests between cold air & open intake then it's a prefernece toss up.
...Again, i'm not repeating hear say. This is just my personal opinion from my own research to answer the same question.
02-06-02, 04:58 PM
#42
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this is a great post but everyone seems to have their own opinion based on their own experiences and research. if you want the best intake for you then do alot of research and figure out which ones right for you.
02-06-02, 07:02 PM
#44
Senior Member
Originally posted by Kahren
anyone have pics of what the m2 box looks liek inside?! i have been wantign to see this for a while and what kind of filter/filters does it use
anyone have pics of what the m2 box looks liek inside?! i have been wantign to see this for a while and what kind of filter/filters does it use
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake1.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake2.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake3.JPG
02-06-02, 07:09 PM
#45
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Originally posted by jr
I took these a while back to ask a question about the oil in the intake, but you can see what it looks like on the inside:
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake1.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake2.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake3.JPG
I took these a while back to ask a question about the oil in the intake, but you can see what it looks like on the inside:
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake1.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake2.JPG
http://63.108.11.6/jrspics/intake3.JPG
is the new CF one they sell identical to this one other then teh material its made of?
02-06-02, 07:15 PM
#46
Senior Member
Originally posted by Kahren
hey thanx, now a new quastion is the new CF one they sell identical to this one other then teh material its made of?
hey thanx, now a new quastion
is the new CF one they sell identical to this one other then teh material its made of?
02-06-02, 07:23 PM
#48
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i am still leaning toward the m2 intake out of the two, the other being apexi. i dont see the need for apexi and an isolated box for it anywhere up to 350 hp....or i coudl be wrong
02-06-02, 07:32 PM
#49
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One thing no one has brought up with CAI vs open is the supply to the air pump. Although no direct experience with this, I remember that if you supplied the airpump with hot air, it accelerates it lifespan. So if you run an open filter you could experience pre-mature failure of the airpump.
Does anybody remember this?
Does anybody remember this?
