Who runs with advanced timing in their NA?
10-10-04, 09:17 PM
#1
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Who runs with advanced timing in their NA?
I've searched quite a bit, and haven't found many actual numbers (or even guesses). The threads tend to be "Advancing timing increases power" with no actual numbers or other information to back it up.
I'm thinking of pushing my timing by 5 degrees or so at the CAS, since NAs are supposedly hard to detonate with, and it supposedly adds some decent kick. Anyone else have feedback on this?
I'd love to get dyno numbers for advances, but there doesn't seem to be a dyno in the middle of Iowa. :-/
-=Russ=-
I'm thinking of pushing my timing by 5 degrees or so at the CAS, since NAs are supposedly hard to detonate with, and it supposedly adds some decent kick. Anyone else have feedback on this?
I'd love to get dyno numbers for advances, but there doesn't seem to be a dyno in the middle of Iowa. :-/
-=Russ=-
10-10-04, 10:05 PM
#2
Lives on the Forum
I ran with mine advanced 2-3 degrees after the rebuild, because she idled better with it like that. Just recently I tweaked it back to dead nuts, about 8,500 miles into the rebuild. Can't say as I had THAT much more power with her advanced.
If you've been running with perfectly adjusted timing, tweak her up a couple and see if you notice any results. Don't think I would go 5 right off the bat, though I'm the paranoid type
If you've been running with perfectly adjusted timing, tweak her up a couple and see if you notice any results. Don't think I would go 5 right off the bat, though I'm the paranoid type
10-10-04, 10:20 PM
#3
Super Raterhater
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NY, MA, MI, OR, TX, and now LA or AZ!
Posts: 10,624
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I used to run +15 on my '87 sport w/160k miles, never had a problem. The only thing it really seemed to do for me was get my car to rev up a little quicker, as for the butt dyno, it didn't report anything.
10-10-04, 10:33 PM
#4
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
If one doesn't have access to a timing light, how does degrees of CAS rotation translate into degrees of advance? I borrowed a timing light to set the initial timing, and it's dead on right now, but I don't have access to a timing light right now.
-=Russ=-
-=Russ=-
10-10-04, 10:38 PM
#5
Lives on the Forum
Unless someone with experience knows exactly how far to move the CAS for a certain amount of "degrees", I'd say you're going to need a timing light.
IIRC, rotating the CAS clockwise retards the timing, although I could be ***-backwards on that, lol...
IIRC, rotating the CAS clockwise retards the timing, although I could be ***-backwards on that, lol...
10-10-04, 10:39 PM
#6
i wouldn't mess with the timing without a light, in fact i probably wouldn't mess with it beyond factory spec. it does improve performace especially if you have alot of mods, if you don't then it will change so little in power that the gains aren't worth possible detonation and an apex seal freeing itself of it's prison.
10-10-04, 10:39 PM
#7
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: california
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i thought about doing this myself but alas no timming light. has anyone everd gone higher then 3 degrees advance timming? im willing to go 5 off the back but i don't have access to a timming light to get it right.
Trending Topics
10-10-04, 10:40 PM
#8
Technically... running advanced timing and a higher grade of fuel should net you more power, but there is really more to the tuning then that. Keeping an eye on your 02 readings, and properly tuning the car, and yes, I'm sure there's power left to be had there.
10-10-04, 10:44 PM
#9
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Other threads have said clockwise increases timing (repeatedly).
As near as I can tell, the CAS:eshaft ratio is 1:1. There are two "prongs" on the bit inside the CAS, so there will be two pulses per full revolution of the CAS. This corresponds directly to the 2 spark events per e-shaft rotation. So... check my logic, but it should be a 1:1 ratio (one degree of CAS rotation to one degree of actual advance).
Current mods are Pineapple racing inserts and a Racing Beat presilencer. I'm planning to put a K&N intake on at some point, but not sure when.
I may go out one of these nights and make use of the long deserted straight roads in Iowa (nothing with curves, but lots of deserted straight roads) and play with the timing to see if I can feel any difference. Borrow a G-Tech or something if I can.
-=Russ=-
As near as I can tell, the CAS:eshaft ratio is 1:1. There are two "prongs" on the bit inside the CAS, so there will be two pulses per full revolution of the CAS. This corresponds directly to the 2 spark events per e-shaft rotation. So... check my logic, but it should be a 1:1 ratio (one degree of CAS rotation to one degree of actual advance).
Current mods are Pineapple racing inserts and a Racing Beat presilencer. I'm planning to put a K&N intake on at some point, but not sure when.
I may go out one of these nights and make use of the long deserted straight roads in Iowa (nothing with curves, but lots of deserted straight roads) and play with the timing to see if I can feel any difference. Borrow a G-Tech or something if I can.
-=Russ=-
10-10-04, 10:52 PM
#10
Lives on the Forum
CAS turns at 1/2 e-shaft speed, IIRC. And yeah, the more I think about it, turning it CW probably does increase/advance timing (told ya I was ***-backwards, lol).
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
10-10-04, 11:01 PM
#11
i am legendary
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
CAS turns at 1/2 e-shaft speed, IIRC. And yeah, the more I think about it, turning it CW probably does increase/advance timing (told ya I was ***-backwards, lol).
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
10-10-04, 11:07 PM
#12
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
CAS turns at 1/2 e-shaft speed, IIRC. And yeah, the more I think about it, turning it CW probably does increase/advance timing (told ya I was ***-backwards, lol).
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
Another interesting question is where are we actually taking these degrees measurements- if at the pulley, it's turning 3 times faster than the rotor, does that mean every 3 degrees at the pulley is actually 1 degree, as far as timing goes in relation to spark??
Your thinking a bit much into I think there Wayne..
Timing degrees are just a relative measurement, in this case, w.r.t the e-shaft since that is what the spark is made in relation to.
IIRC, the max movement you can make without re-stabbing the cas is 14deg.
At the moment on this rebuild, mine is near on that much. Since it bearly idles with it much below that.
10-11-04, 12:13 AM
#14
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by dDuB
For figuring out degrees when I experimented with this, I just looked at the 2 ticks. Since the first one is at 5º and the second is at 20º, then the distance between the two is 15º, right? Well, when you advance you can kind of "eye" this distance in correlation with how much you want to advance it. Of course this isn't exact at all, but it was the best way I could figure out to do it.
WhiteFC- you're probably right, I'm trying to dissect it a little too far. I'm old school, and just set the timing by ear after the rebuild, then put a light on it and figured out how far off she was after I got the idle down to 750.
10-11-04, 01:31 AM
#16
I wish I was driving!
Originally Posted by dDuB
For figuring out degrees when I experimented with this, I just looked at the 2 ticks. Since the first one is at 5º and the second is at 20º, then the distance between the two is 15º, right? Well, when you advance you can kind of "eye" this distance in correlation with how much you want to advance it. Of course this isn't exact at all, but it was the best way I could figure out to do it.
10-11-04, 01:34 AM
#17
I wish I was driving!
Originally Posted by Karack
i wouldn't mess with the timing without a light, in fact i probably wouldn't mess with it beyond factory spec. it does improve performace especially if you have alot of mods, if you don't then it will change so little in power that the gains aren't worth possible detonation and an apex seal freeing itself of it's prison.
I'm not saying, now, that detonation on an N/A won't hurt your car over time, but unlike a TII, where one decent ping will take out the motor, N/A's don;t blow from it.
10-11-04, 01:49 AM
#18
On the second gen, the distance between the leading and trailing timing marks is 10 not 15 degrees. Since the timing advances the same for leading and trailing at idle, set the light on the trailing side. Rotate the cas clockwise until the front cover marker is halfway in between the yellow and orange pulley mark. You're advanced 5 degrees.
10-11-04, 01:50 AM
#19
to be sure you can remove the cover from the crank angle sensor and watch the shaft while cranking, turn the distributor against the rotation to increase the timing.
i said that because i have seen alot of people go a bit nuts when playing with timing, detonation comes on strong when you are accelerating hard so it really only takes a good shot to kill an apex seal. but whatever, just take it easy on that distributor slider. :p
i said that because i have seen alot of people go a bit nuts when playing with timing, detonation comes on strong when you are accelerating hard so it really only takes a good shot to kill an apex seal. but whatever, just take it easy on that distributor slider. :p
10-11-04, 02:00 AM
#20
I wish I was driving!
Originally Posted by rotarygod
On the second gen, the distance between the leading and trailing timing marks is 10 not 15 degrees. Since the timing advances the same for leading and trailing at idle, set the light on the trailing side. Rotate the cas clockwise until the front cover marker is halfway in between the yellow and orange pulley mark. You're advanced 5 degrees.
Last edited by scathcart; 10-11-04 at 02:05 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
stickmantijuana
Engine Management Forum
11
11-09-15 01:15 PM
