ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

Searching for "oil" and "temperature" didn't come up with anything useful.

Under normal driving, my water and oil stay about 180F. After several minutes of hard driving, my water stays the same, but my oil gets up to ~210F before I run out of road and let it cool down. (Temperature measured just below the filter, using the blue Racing Beat adapter. ) Is that ok, or should I be worried?

I'd like to get this car on a track eventually, but first I want to make sure it can handle it reliably.

I just bought a belly pan, but haven't installed it (it hasn't been delivered yet). I'm hoping that will help. Also, I need to clean my oil cooler. I'm not sure what happened here, it's been this way for years.



Anything else I should check?

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Sounds normal. The most my oil temps ever get to is 210F, and that's only if I beat on it, am stuck in traffic, or it's hot out.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

90° weather, stop-n-go traffic...water temp between 180-190°, oil temp (taken from the oil pan) will normally be 200°, rising occasionally to 210°.

So, your temps seem normal to me also.
Besides, you can worry about it all you want but what are you going to do about it?

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

Ok, thanks. That's good to know. I just wanted to make sure.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

Your temps seem quite high to me, but then again I have a fairly gutted NA, no undertray, and temp taken at the oil pedestal and I see 140~150 cruising temp and up to 180~190 after long hard runs up on the dragon where I leave the car in 2nd gear for 318+ corners of harsh redlining.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

That sounds low. what weight are you using? I'm using 20w50. Does that make a difference? The outside temp here is about 80 I think. I hit nearly 210 after a few minutes of high rpm driving in 2nd gear, though not near as hard or long as driving on a track would be.

The road I use for really hard driving is only 1.5 miles long. (If I'm feeling...enthusiastic I can sometimes get the temps up to 200 before I even get there.) I run it, then turn around and run it again. So that's just 3 miles of hard driving, which is why I'm a little worried. I want to find a longer (and better) road to see if it levels out at 210 or keeps rising.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

Im running 10w30 castrol syntec in it right now, though Ive seen similar numbers when running 20w50 royal purple. Gauge and sender are both prosport units with the sender bolted into a re-speed oil pedestal.

To put it in perspective though, the oil cooler is bypassed until the oil reaches 140*F more or less, so after its circulating it tends to stay just over that, at least in my car. I also have no airflow restrictions between the oil cooler and the radiator (removed the ac components between them). For hard runs I generally hit a good portion of interstate to wind out the gears, and long runs of 90+ mph between my house and the junkyard 20 miles away only let the oil see around 180ish tops, with my coolant temp reaching just under half on my s4 gauge, have yet to get and install an aftermarket unit yet, but I do have an S4 water neck pre-threaded for a temp sensor.

Edit: outside temps here have been between 80~90 lately during my midday runs to work and runs to the house for lunch, but when its cool outside temps hover just over 140 during cruising.

Edit+1: Upon viewing your oil cooler picture...REPLACE IT. there should be NO reason to have that much oil caked in that area. The oil cooler more than likely has a leak in it so its not able to do its job.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

I was afraid of that. I'm definitely not buying a new one. ($730 from mazdatrix) I'll try cleaning mine first and also keep an eye on the classified section.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

Should also check your local junkyards or pull-a-parts. Though chances are good there's at least 3 or 4 partouts going on in the classified section so getting one shouldnt be an issue, though also check to make sure your lines are in good shape too, after so long the line that runs against eh frame rail and between the radiator tends to work itself raw and splits.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

His oil cooler lines are a much more likely source for a leak than the cooler itself. It looks like those may even be the original stock lines. I just replaced a set a leaky lines, and had a good amount of oil/dirt in that same area.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

I'll have to check tomorrow. New cooler lines are more expensive than a used cooler.

FirstRotaryExp

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm true, from the picture there is oil caked all over the lines braiding as well as on the lower portion of the radiator. If you get 'new' lines dont opt for stock mazda, there were a few people/vendors that sold lines made of a much more durable hydrolic line using the stock ends.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

Does anyonewhere can I get new lines? Mazdatrix only has braided stainless lines, and they're over $200.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Corksport sell 'em for $130.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

i'll look into that. thanks. I've actually never bought anything from there.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

get stainless/braided line...no reason to get the stock ones.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

The corksport ones are a bargain at $130, and are good quality. They're what I just used to replace my rebuilt ones that sprung a leak after ~6-7 years of use.

Photonic

An important factor is what type of oil you are running.


Different weights of oil have different viscosity ratings at various temperatures (Captain obvious strikes!). Manufacturers recommend specific oils taking into account your engines proper running temperature, and taking into account that temperature will change said viscosity. because each engine has its own viscosity requirement.

Lubrication = Oil flow between seals

Pressure = Resistance to flow between seals. Just FYI.

Anyway I could say..212 degrees is the "best" oil temp. Like on cars requiring 10w-30 (Because at 212 degrees, ideal running temperature they have a viscosity of 10, viscosity of 10 is whats needed for normal operation)

What oil weight does the manufacturer recommend for your engine?

Look up the characeristics of said Oil weight, and keep it around the temperature range recommended.


10w-30 works best around 212 degrees. and that is what was recommended by a mazda tech.



We come back now to lubrication = flow between parts, not pressure. Pressure is a resistance to flow, you need to have X flow at Y pressure. Running a thicker oil than originally recommended is a band aid for a problem as it will decrease oil flow (The pressure at bearing,seal entrances is irrelevent)

a 10w-30 oil has viscosity of 10 at 212 degrees ish? And a viscosity of 100 or maybe 100+ at 75 degrees (Start up temp)

So 10w-30 is clearly not the right viscosity to lubricate your rotary under running conditions at cold temps As a rotary requiring 10w-30 requires a viscocity of 10 or it wouldnt be recommended. so please warm up your rotaries, not just to avoid flooding

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

a 10w-30 oil has viscosity of 10 at 212 degrees ish? And a viscosity of 100 or maybe 100+ at 75 degrees (Start up temp)

So 10w-30 is clearly not the right viscosity to lubricate your rotary under running conditions at cold temps As a rotary requiring 10w-30 requires a viscocity of 10 or it wouldnt be recommended. so please warm up your rotaries, not just to avoid flooding [/QUOTE]

More oil misinformation. This weems to be a favorite passtime on this sight, sigh. Here are average viscosities for 30 weight oil:

Temperature ( F )....Thickness

302...........................3
212..........................10
104..........................100
32..........................250 (rough estimate)

The "10" is the viscosity of the oil, not the weight as labeled on the oil can.

Paraphrased from http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=136338

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Here are the actual viscosity standards required by the SAE. I got this out of the SAE handbook and then Icemark added it to the FAQ a while back.



100 C is around 210 F. 210 F is fine for oil temps.

ultrataco

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the info, but now i'm all confused. That chart looks useful and interesting, but I'm not sure what the numbers mean. So at 100C/ 212F, 20w50 has a "low-shear-rate kinematic viscosity" (what?) min of 5.6 and/or/? 16.3 and 10w30 is 4.1/9.3. Does this mean 10w30 is better since it has a lower viscosity?

So 10w30 is ok up to 300F? I was thinking 20w50 would be better for hard use (extended high rpm driving like on a track).

I run 20w50 since it can get into the 90s here sometimes. The manual shows 10w30 goes to 90F (ambient, I know). I think I may switch to 10w30 next oil change just to see if it runs any different. Actually, according to the manual 10w40 and 10w50 have the widest range. Why doesn't anybody ever talk about those? It always seems to be 20w50 vs 10w30.



I'm afraid I may have turned this into another one of those "which oil to use" threads.

Back to my oil cooler/lines:
I wiped off much of the oil off the cooler and line. I couldn't really out the oil caked in the fins, but I got enough to discover something. I checked again after driving a while and it looks like it's the bolt on the bottom of the cooler (see pic below). The line and the cooler looked dry, but the bolt was wet with oil. It's a tiny leak, I'm not losing any oil even after a hard drive. There's a spot of oil on the ground maybe the size of a quarter after sitting for a day or two.

This is the same pic I posted earlier - before cleaning - with the bolt circled.

Photonic

I got all my information from that thread as a matter of fact..

10w30 is not a straight 30 weight oil its a 10w30 oil...

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052


This is the better link...

Oil type... Thickness at 75 F...Thickness at 212 F

Straight 30...... 250......................10
10W-30............100......................10
0W-30..............40 ......................10

Straight 10........30....................... 6

Photonic

10w30 is not good to 300 degrees...if your engine requires a viscosity of 10..it should stay at 10 as much as possible. at 300 degrees 10w 30 does not have a viscosity (thickness) of 10 its more like 3, now so thin it cannot flow properly. a 10w 30 oil does its best work around 212 degrees.

You have two options, Improve cooling to keep your oil at 212 degrees (I would do that) or run a thicker oil that will GIVE YOU a viscosity closer to 10 at your runing temperature of 300 degrees and such.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Unless you cleaned the hoses completely, it's very hard to pin point where the exact leak is. My hoses for instance, would allow oil to seep very slowly through the braid. This would cause the braid to be wet with oil, along with that same side of the cooler & the thermostat bolt you circled. I doubt the leak is there, gravity would be preventing the oil from going up to the top of the cooler. That spot is right on the bottom, so oil will accumulate there and drip down.

Also, a can of brake cleaner will blast the oil out of the fins. When replacing the lines, you can easily remove the cooler and clean it off thoroughly.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

I run Castrol GTX 20W50. Sticking with 20W50 is probably your best bet.

I take my temps off the oil pedestal. I see up to 210 in traffic when it is hot out. I also run the stock undertray.

It gets up to 235-240 or so on the track in 90 degree weather on a higher speed track.

Your temps sound pretty normal. Fix your leak and you should be good. The oil thermostat seems to open around 165.