What I did wrong??
12-19-10, 03:57 PM
#1
What I did wrong??
Ok, my car began flooding randomly so I assumed injectors. I changed them with 4 new ones and reassembled everything back with new plugs. It turns over but no start. Took plugs out, depressed gas pedal and turned over engine several times to get rid of raw fuel (a mist of gas was obvious). I'm gonna let it sit there a few hours with the plugs out to evaporate any residual gas.
Is there anything obvious I missed? MAF plugged in, BAC, TPS, air sensor. Anything else I might want to check? This sucks!
90'vert
Is there anything obvious I missed? MAF plugged in, BAC, TPS, air sensor. Anything else I might want to check? This sucks!
90'vert
12-19-10, 04:03 PM
#2
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How long do you leave the car on for before shutting it down? does it get completely warm?
I hear that it's best to at least get the car to operating temperature before shutting it down to avoid flooding. My car also has issues starting when the engine has been warmed up 'too'much. I just need to let it cool a bit.
I hear that it's best to at least get the car to operating temperature before shutting it down to avoid flooding. My car also has issues starting when the engine has been warmed up 'too'much. I just need to let it cool a bit.
Last edited by djphonics; 12-19-10 at 04:05 PM. Reason: added 2nd part
12-19-10, 04:39 PM
#4
Thanks, I am aware of shutting the engine off too quickly. It's a no-no.
I did turn it over by hand using the alternator pulley until I heard a poof poof meaning compression. I;ll try a little oil later to see what happens.
I have spark in each wire and I think I got all the vac lines connected.
I did turn it over by hand using the alternator pulley until I heard a poof poof meaning compression. I;ll try a little oil later to see what happens.
I have spark in each wire and I think I got all the vac lines connected.
12-19-10, 05:59 PM
#6
What you did wrong was assume what the problem was. Poof poof doesn't mean good compression either. Oil in the plug holes to get it started, then once it's warmed up, a compression test is in order.
Mine flooded with a new engine, 110 psi on all faces, and new injectors. Turned out the wiring harness is so old, it opened the wires between the coolant sensor and ecu. Can't ever assume anything.
Mine flooded with a new engine, 110 psi on all faces, and new injectors. Turned out the wiring harness is so old, it opened the wires between the coolant sensor and ecu. Can't ever assume anything.
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12-20-10, 04:34 AM
#8
Too old for this
Probably by back-probing the connectors on the ECU. There is a table somewhere listing the expected voltage on most of the pins at given conditions. By checking the actual voltages you can track down a lot electrical issues. Getting under the floor to the ECU is a PITA, but it gives you a lot of info.
12-21-10, 11:28 AM
#9
I gotta pull everything back apart. Did the full blown de-flooding and nothing. It doesnt even sound right turning over. Ok, I drained the radiator and block of coolant before but how much can I drain without draining the whole thing again, ie, drain enough in the TB so when I pull it it doesn't make a mess with coolant everywhere.? Thanks
12-21-10, 12:04 PM
#10
I gotta pull everything back apart. Did the full blown de-flooding and nothing. It doesnt even sound right turning over. Ok, I drained the radiator and block of coolant before but how much can I drain without draining the whole thing again, ie, drain enough in the TB so when I pull it it doesn't make a mess with coolant everywhere.? Thanks
12-21-10, 01:22 PM
#11
A pair of these will prevent you from having to drain any coolant. They also sell them at Harbor freight for less.
For the no-start condition though, I can't see anything in the pics. I know on S4's there is a small tube that goes into the intake pipe between the throttle body and AFM that, if left out, will prevent it from starting. It's underneath the corrugated snorkel.
Did you check for fuel pressure and spark?
For the no-start condition though, I can't see anything in the pics. I know on S4's there is a small tube that goes into the intake pipe between the throttle body and AFM that, if left out, will prevent it from starting. It's underneath the corrugated snorkel.
Did you check for fuel pressure and spark?
12-21-10, 04:14 PM
#13
I had spark. Didnt check fuel pressure, but just upon diassembling fuel sprayed because I forgot to relieve fuel pressure after the last attempt.
I think I found the problem, at least one problem, a broken connector on the front primary injector. How do I go about fixing this? I called Ray Crow at Malloy Mazda and he said 'good luck finding a replacement'. The pins do slide just a tad when working the wires on all injector connectors, but they are not reset all the way back.
I took diassembly pictures in case I had something connected backwards. Hopefully, you guys with a sharp eye may see something?
I think I found the problem, at least one problem, a broken connector on the front primary injector. How do I go about fixing this? I called Ray Crow at Malloy Mazda and he said 'good luck finding a replacement'. The pins do slide just a tad when working the wires on all injector connectors, but they are not reset all the way back.
I took diassembly pictures in case I had something connected backwards. Hopefully, you guys with a sharp eye may see something?
12-21-10, 04:41 PM
#14
yes, you are SOL for replacements for the series 5 injectors.. you can get the series 4 injector clips but it requires swapping the injectors out with '88 high impedence ones and cutting the lug off the injector so the low impedence clips will fit.
i have the part #'s for the s4 low impedence injector clips here:
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/cant-drive-my-rx7-934881/page2/
but if you can't push them literally out of the housing relatively easily then i wouldn't worry about it, there will be about 2mm of play in them normally.
sounds like you should just do what i've been suggesting to everyone with starting issues lately. strap the injectors to the rail and spin the CAS with the ignition on and watch the spray pattern. just be sure to mark the CAS and don't rotate the engine.
i have the part #'s for the s4 low impedence injector clips here:
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/cant-drive-my-rx7-934881/page2/
but if you can't push them literally out of the housing relatively easily then i wouldn't worry about it, there will be about 2mm of play in them normally.
sounds like you should just do what i've been suggesting to everyone with starting issues lately. strap the injectors to the rail and spin the CAS with the ignition on and watch the spray pattern. just be sure to mark the CAS and don't rotate the engine.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-21-10 at 04:46 PM.
12-21-10, 05:09 PM
#15
Hmmmmmmmm...so you are saying the connector is probably the issue? It felt like it was on the injector good, just not locked onto it because of the broken piece. I was hoping to keep the 90' injectors in since I just bought them new. Is there anything else I can do that you suggest???
I suppose I could find a used harness and cut the injector off and solder on? I has hoping for a quick fix though because Christmas rolling in fast.
Thanks for all your help!
I suppose I could find a used harness and cut the injector off and solder on? I has hoping for a quick fix though because Christmas rolling in fast.
Thanks for all your help!
12-21-10, 05:24 PM
#17
Will do.
One other thing. When I first tried to start it it sounded funny. It sounded like one time before years ago when I had the wires crossed. This is dumb, but just to confirm, is this correct for plugs and wires:
Front Rotor:
T1 is top with BUR9EQ; wire blue insulator to T1 ignitor
L1 is bottom with BUR7EQ; wire black insulator to L1
Rear Rotor:
T2 is top with BUR9EQ; blue to T2
L2 is bottom with BUR7EQ; black to L2
One other thing. When I first tried to start it it sounded funny. It sounded like one time before years ago when I had the wires crossed. This is dumb, but just to confirm, is this correct for plugs and wires:
Front Rotor:
T1 is top with BUR9EQ; wire blue insulator to T1 ignitor
L1 is bottom with BUR7EQ; wire black insulator to L1
Rear Rotor:
T2 is top with BUR9EQ; blue to T2
L2 is bottom with BUR7EQ; black to L2
12-21-10, 07:52 PM
#19
About 3/4 way down this page
http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=kgfuel
you'll find S5 injector connectors.
I think.
http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=kgfuel
you'll find S5 injector connectors.
I think.
http://kgparts.com/kgimages/kgparts/...ess/delphi.jpg
12-21-10, 09:02 PM
#20
MECP Certified Installer
How long do you leave the car on for before shutting it down? does it get completely warm?
I hear that it's best to at least get the car to operating temperature before shutting it down to avoid flooding. My car also has issues starting when the engine has been warmed up 'too'much. I just need to let it cool a bit.
I hear that it's best to at least get the car to operating temperature before shutting it down to avoid flooding. My car also has issues starting when the engine has been warmed up 'too'much. I just need to let it cool a bit.
On another note, holy **** at the pics. I thought I had the cleanest engine bay on to forum, but yours beats mine. How is all of the brass stuff uncorroded like that? The wires aren't even faded any!!!? We need a story on those pics dude.
Last edited by jjwalker; 12-21-10 at 09:05 PM. Reason: saw crazy engine bay pics!
12-22-10, 08:13 AM
#22
My description of the plugs/wires is correct, right?
AGreen, thats a huge find on the injector connectors! I ordered some and I'll try at least one.
jjwalker, what o-ring are you referring to? Not the oval one where it goes into the tank? I had replaced the fuel pump about 6 months ago w/the o-ring. It was Mazda OEM.
Picture of my work in action and my pride and joy 10AE
AGreen, thats a huge find on the injector connectors! I ordered some and I'll try at least one.
jjwalker, what o-ring are you referring to? Not the oval one where it goes into the tank? I had replaced the fuel pump about 6 months ago w/the o-ring. It was Mazda OEM.
Picture of my work in action and my pride and joy 10AE
12-22-10, 09:54 AM
#23
Sounds right, but I don't have the stock wires anymore, so they're all black on my car. So long as T1=T1 and so on, you've got it right. Trailing is top, leading is bottom. And the spark plug numbers really don't matter for starting the car. The 9's are a "colder" plug, so it'll have less chance of detonation which really only matters under heavy load.
Reviewing a few posts back, it sounds like your car is probably still flooded. My method of de-flooding is generally a sure fire way of getting it started. I pull the vacuum line off the map sensor and dip it in a bottle of thin oil. I use air tool oil, but any thin oil will work. I pull the egi fuse (or since you have S5, fully depress the gas pedal) and crank for 15 seconds. Wait a minute, rinse, repeat. If you're not hearing a difference in compression after a few of those, it's time for mouth to mouth. I acutally use a long vacuum tube and suck up a little oil in the tube, cap it off, pop it on the manifold port and blow through it to get the oil in the intake. Then drop the line back in the oil can and crank some more. You'll hear the difference in cranking once it gets compression back. Should start up right away once you hear compression come back, just ease off the throttle and have someone standing by to replace the MAP sensor hose.
Reviewing a few posts back, it sounds like your car is probably still flooded. My method of de-flooding is generally a sure fire way of getting it started. I pull the vacuum line off the map sensor and dip it in a bottle of thin oil. I use air tool oil, but any thin oil will work. I pull the egi fuse (or since you have S5, fully depress the gas pedal) and crank for 15 seconds. Wait a minute, rinse, repeat. If you're not hearing a difference in compression after a few of those, it's time for mouth to mouth. I acutally use a long vacuum tube and suck up a little oil in the tube, cap it off, pop it on the manifold port and blow through it to get the oil in the intake. Then drop the line back in the oil can and crank some more. You'll hear the difference in cranking once it gets compression back. Should start up right away once you hear compression come back, just ease off the throttle and have someone standing by to replace the MAP sensor hose.
12-22-10, 10:32 AM
#24
i wash the fasteners in an acidic solution that cleans the oxidization off the zinc but leaves the zinc intact, it takes some work but anyone can do it so long as the fasteners aren't actually rusted through the plating. with that said i dislike the builders that strip the coatings off the rotors, leaving the raw metal that can rust easily(rotors aren't zinc plated but have a alloy plating that can take the extreme temperatures).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-22-10 at 10:34 AM.
12-22-10, 10:42 AM
#25
Your car is an S5. It has fuel cut built into the gas peddle (the S4 models did not have this feature). Hold the gas peddle to the floor, crank for 10 sec, turn the key off for 10 sec, repeat. Do this 5-8 times, it'll start to run after it finally defloods, but keep the gas to floor for a time or two more, then release the gas peddle while cranking.
Good Luck
Good Luck