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want FMIC but need to axe my PS? what are my options?
got an 87 GXL with a turbo II swap.
within this year or next im wanting to up the boost on it. sending the turbo out to BNR but im not sure about the TMIC (my aftermarket hood does not have the rubber lining to force air down into the IC, plus I hear the TMIC heat soaks a lot) so I want to go front mount. Issue is, being in Florida I refuse to give up my AC, which means I'll have to axe my power steering pump somehow to make room for the piping alone with relocating coils and the battery.
so what are my options?
I'm personally looking towards a manual power steering rack. I would like some sort of assisted steering because my car see's plenty of road use, and definitely more than if I were to just de-power the hydraulic one I have now because i've felt what its like to turn it off and personally, I'm not a fan. Im looking at one currently but I cant seem to find any other sellers (at least ones that aren't selling theirs for an arm and a leg -_-). actually, the hydraulic PS I have now is a bit twitchy at high speed so I'm not sure if the change in gear ratio on the manual power steering rack would fix that. also for note: because of my Turbo II swap, the PS computer isn't getting a speed signal, so I've had to disconnect it.
so other than manual power steering swap or de-powering the hydraulic PS, what are my other options? are there other Manual power steering racks that are simple to install with minimal modification? Or has someone found a way to route a FMIC without giving up their PS or AC?
FYI, the gap between the power steering pump and the strut tower may not even be large enough to fit 1.5 inch piping without it rubbing against the tower, so somethings gotta change......
any advice is appreciated
i kept my power steering, but ac is deleted, and even have the stock battery and battery tray, comes out the greddy elbow, and hten goes downward, and routes low e where the AC would be then makes its way to the front of the radiator in the area the oil cooler lines go
It's possible to get a pipe slipped between the PS and shock tower. 2.5 in is easiest to fit through. You'll have to get it welded a bunch of sections.
got an 87 GXL with a turbo II swap.
within this year or next im wanting to up the boost on it. sending the turbo out to BNR but im not sure about the TMIC (my aftermarket hood does not have the rubber lining to force air down into the IC, plus I hear the TMIC heat soaks a lot) so I want to go front mount. Issue is, being in Florida I refuse to give up my AC, which means I'll have to axe my power steering pump somehow to make room for the piping alone with relocating coils and the battery.
so what are my options?
You're overthinking this. Keep the stock TMIC, and do what you have to do with the hood so it works like the OEM setup. Your best options there are: (1) Figure out a way to add the rubber seals/liner to your aftermarket hood so it can direct air thru the TMIC like the stock setup does, or (2) Pick up a used T2 hood, bolt on, prep & paint as needed - lots of T2 hoods pop up for sale here, shouldn't be too hard to find one in FL.
The stock TMIC will easily support a sub-400 RWHP 13BT motor without any drama - I'm running one with my 13BT, BNR stage 3 turbo, 360~380RWHP, depending on which boost profile I'm running with my AEM Infinity ECU. Intake air temps are pretty good overall - the range I typically log is about 10~30*F higher than whatever the ambient air temps are, after the engine is up to operating temperature and the car is moving. Yes the TMIC will heat soak, if you shut down the engine hot and try to drive off like 10 minutes later, or if you get stuck in traffic, but the stock TMIC is designed well enough that it will cool IAT's down to normal reasonably quickly once you get moving again, assuming you stay off the boost.
You're overthinking this. Keep the stock TMIC, and do what you have to do with the hood so it works like the OEM setup. Your best options there are: (1) Figure out a way to add the rubber seals/liner to your aftermarket hood so it can direct air thru the TMIC like the stock setup does, or (2) Pick up a used T2 hood, bolt on, prep & paint as needed - lots of T2 hoods pop up for sale here, shouldn't be too hard to find one in FL.
The stock TMIC will easily support a sub-400 RWHP 13BT motor without any drama - I'm running one with my 13BT, BNR stage 3 turbo, 360~380RWHP, depending on which boost profile I'm running with my AEM Infinity ECU. Intake air temps are pretty good overall - the range I typically log is about 10~30*F higher than whatever the ambient air temps are, after the engine is up to operating temperature and the car is moving. Yes the TMIC will heat soak, if you shut down the engine hot and try to drive off like 10 minutes later, or if you get stuck in traffic, but the stock TMIC is designed well enough that it will cool IAT's down to normal reasonably quickly once you get moving again, assuming you stay off the boost.
Im curious, is there anyone else running a 350-400 hp build with the stock tmic? I've talked to plenty of people down here in Florida with FC turbos and they all say the same thing, that the FMIC is the way to go if you want more boost. Its not like I don't believe you, hell, i want too, your helping me save a fair bit of money! plus you've helped me out on a bunch of other posts too, so I've worked with you a far bit. I just would like to have a second opinion and, if possible, someone that's running that kind of setup down here in Florida.
if you find an old HKS or Trust/Greddy kit you can keep the AC and PS (and emissions if you wanted)
there are also a few upgraded top mount intercoolers...
Interesting! I thought of doing this but I didn't think there was enough room to go back that way. Ill keep my eyes out for one. does this kit have a special intercooler or do you think someone can fabricate something like this (in case I don't find it).
I also looked into aftermarket TMIC's and I could only find the one made by RE amemiya. Im assuming there are others because the one you showed in the pic doessnt look like one of theirs.
Im curious, is there anyone else running a 350-400 hp build with the stock tmic? I've talked to plenty of people down here in Florida with FC turbos and they all say the same thing, that the FMIC is the way to go if you want more boost.
I honestly don't think you'll find many that do, it's what I call the lemming factor - everyone just assumes they need an FMIC to make power, because all the "tunas" out there say they do, but very few guys will make those kinds of build decisions informed by actual data. And consider that the shadier shops out there may be recommending FMIC installs because the custom fab work is a profit center for them, so why wouldn't they recommend it?
In my case, before I did my new engine build in 2017, I was running the same BNR stage 3 turbo I have now on the old stock port motor & exact same exhaust system. Same TMIC, and I was running an Rtek2.x/stock ECU for engine management then. Besides the new motor having a street port, the only other significant changes since then were a standalone EMS (AEM Infinity), upgrades to all of the sensors (Infinity uses a VE based tune w/MAP sensor, so I got rid of the stock AFM), fuel system mods (4x ID1000 FIs new FFE rails & plumbing) & ignition system (IGN-1A coils). In the old configuration with the Rtek, (running 4x Bosch 725cc FIs) it would dyno in the 290~300RWHP range, and at that level I'd be seeing about 12~13psi boost, and IATs about 10~30*F higher than ambient air temps. Luckily the old Rtek at least had some rudimentary data logging/display capability with an old palm pilot. What I learned from the old setup & logging was that my power/safe boost was limited by fuel at the top end/max load, and by airflow - having an AFM in front of that turbo was like forcing it to suck from a soda straw.
So based on those IAT numbers, I concluded IATs were never an issue in the old setup, and since I'd be running the same turbo, with perhaps a bit more boost because no AFM restriction, better boost control via the new EMS, and plenty of fuel to support at the top end, I didn't see the point in messing with the TMIC at that point. Worse case I would dyno the new setup, see where it stands, and log data to figure out if IATs are holding me back - if they are, I could then look into things like a better TMIC, water/meth injection or an FMIC.
I honestly don't think you'll find many that do, it's what I call the lemming factor - everyone just assumes they need an FMIC to make power, because all the "tunas" out there say they do, but very few guys will make those kinds of build decisions informed by actual data. .
+1 to that, my friend built a GTUs with an S5 drivetrain that was totally stock except the ecu and exhaust, and when we went to go do some freeway pulls i was surprised at how good the temps were. coolant was rock steady. intake temp would go up and down, as you'd expect, but they were reasonable.
Interesting! I thought of doing this but I didn't think there was enough room to go back that way. Ill keep my eyes out for one. does this kit have a special intercooler or do you think someone can fabricate something like this (in case I don't find it).
I also looked into aftermarket TMIC's and I could only find the one made by RE amemiya. Im assuming there are others because the one you showed in the pic doessnt look like one of theirs.
HKS, ARC, Re-Amemyia, Panspeed, Corky Bell, pretty much everyone has had an upgraded top mount at some point.
the intercooler for the old Trust/Greddy setups looks like this, it does require a hole in the radiator shroud. it sits under the hood latch, so its not obvious from the street, you keep your bumper and fog lights and all that jazz too
I had to loosen my engine mounts and scoot it over as far as I could before I was able to pass a charge pipe beyond the PS. I might have also accidentally taken a small sledge to the shock tower.
02-05-21, 07:56 PM
