JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I'm about to pull my window regulator out of my 89 vert. It started acting finicky a short while ago and I didn't pull the panel and regrease the parts (fail on my part) soon enough.

I pulled the panel over the weekend with intentions of greasing everything up, but found by feel and without removing the regulator that the cables have alot of slack in them and only move a short distance before jamming.

I've replaced 2 of these regulators before and with both of those replacements the plastic molded channels the cables ran in had broken...causing slack in the lines and jamming when it got caught up on the second cable.

It was late so I didn't have a chance to pull the regulator and confirm what I suspect. But I'm betting this weekend when I have time to pull the regulator I'll find the plastic molded piece broken.

I've found the cable replacement threads and have brake cable waiting in case that's all I need. My question is, has anyone had success replacing the plastic molded channels the cables run in? How much tension is on those cables? If it's needed I"m thinking of trying to put a bolt in place of the molded plastic with with some sort of plastic guard on it to let the cable run without rubbing metal on metal. Possibly even finding a small pulley wheel to bolt in place.

I haven't seen any stickies or threads related to this particular fix. Just wondering if anyone out there has tried it with or without success?

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

The plastic piece that guides the cables will be least of your worries. Trying to repair or replace the cables themselves will be extremely frustrating. I wasted a lot of time awhile back trying to fix the regulator in my vert, and no method I tried would ever give me a cable anchor that wouldn't snap under the weight of the window. If your cable didn't get mangled or snap off the anchor, that's a good sign.

Beyond that, the cables almost always bind up a bit when the motor assembly is rewound; especially if they were damaged when the thing bound up. It can be done, but it's not worth the time in my opinion. Still, if you really want to take it apart, take pictures to remind yourself how the gears mesh. And set the cable ends up EXACTLY the same relative to one another as you found them. Pull the cables out all the way to check this. The spring inside will make this hell on you.

The single most confusing part is how the cables overlap inside the motor assembly. If done wrong, they will bind up as soon as you hit the switch.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

There is a pictoral thread about replacing the cables..and I've got a spare broken regulator lying around...I think it's passenger so repairing it and simply swapping won't work. But I could use it to learn on and have a backup for when my passenger side inevitably breaks.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Got it repaired as best as it can be for now.

The cables had gotten bound up and snapped. I tried to be cute and swap my spare passenger side window regulator motor into the driver side casing/housing. Found out the motor parts are specific to the side of the car.

I measured the cables from the passenger side, cut cables for driver side. On each cable I used I was able to use one anchored end per cable. I anchored each cable onto regulator. I fed the cut end through the cable housings and into the motor casing/housing. I crimped a cable stay on each cable and used a Dremel to grind each cable stay into a useable anchor.

As other threads had suggested I put the regulator in the up position and first wound the grey cable. Gray cable housing corresponds with the full up position. Got the cable wound on the motor and got the bottom half of the motor into the casing/housing. Held that half of the motor from springing out while I lowered the regulator all the way.

I fed the cut end through the black housing and into the motor casing, crimped and ground an anchor.

The fun part was trying to get both cables wound on the motor without binding. The majority of my problem was that the grooved section of the motor assembly was pretty chewed up. Also I had too much length on each cable and ended up cutting off and re-anchoring.

Once I had shorter lengths it was easier to wind. I found that it was easiest to wind if I raised the regulator. That provided enough slack in the gray cable to pull the bottom half of the motor out slightly. Using one hand to hold the cables in the grooves I spun the assembly to get the black cable wound. While holding the wound cable in place I anchored the black cable onto the motor top and held both motor halves together.

Getting the wound assembly in the casing/housing was fun also. I found that getting a helper was needed. They would hold the black cable tight at the bottom of the regulator coming off the white plastic loop. As I held the wound motor and lowered it into the housing, they would pull the black cable and keep the cables tight on the assembly.

Once the motor assembly was wound and in the casing/housing I used a socket wrench and a screwdriver to tighten up the cables. Jamming a slotted screwdriver into the assembly at the bottom half's plastic "nub" kept the motor from turning. That allowed me to turn the top half and tighten up the black cable.

From there it was real easy. Reassemble the rest of the motor. Screw the casing/housing top back down. Test the motor before installing and reinstall.

This unfortunately was a temporary fix. The grooves on the motor are very worn and it was real hard to get proper tension back on the cables. It's a matter of time till the cables get bound against each other again. But I had fun tinkering and can start investigating motor parts.

What specifically is different one convertible regulators from coupe? Are the actual motors larger on the convertible or is it simply the regulator assembly that is "more beefy" to compensate for the convertible window differences?

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Could a mod change the title of the thread...seeing how it did end up being the cable that was replaced. Hopefully it will help someone out who has similar problems and enough time to kill to try repairing.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Specifically? Well for one thing, you will never find a thread about replacing the cable on a coupe regulator!

Look in the FSM, you will find that the coupe regulator and the manual regulator on page 43. Basically the coupe motor is at the bottom of the slide in the center of the window. On page 46 is the vert regulator. The vert reg is more similar to the manual than to the coupe.

I had good results on my passenger door repair. The plastic slide was trashed and missing. I cannibalized a manual regulator from the salvage yard. At the top of the manual regulator was a very nice nylon pulley, complete with bushing. I used it to replace the slide. It works very very well.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I did some research and found that the coupe and convertible regulators are completely different beasts. I was hoping they'd be similar designs with a stronger, more secure setup for the vert. But no, they're completely different.

The window has already gotten bound up again. But this time the repair should go much more quickly. I know what measurement to cut each cable. I picked up what might be better quality cable from Lowe's. They have anodized cables which look to be the same size (1/16). Hopefully the next attempt at it goes a little better.

I'll try to keep a pictoral log of it all. Hopefully help someone else down the road. I've also got a WTB for vert regulator up. I figure even if I get a broken one I can use it for parts. Or I could just pony up the $85 for a shop in Manhattan to repair it for me....but I'm stubborn and cheap.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

No, don't go to lowes, go to a good bicycle shop. They have replacement cable that is as high quality as the original cable. They even have some that is teflon coated. If I ever have to redo mine, I will use the teflon coated stuff.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Interesting. The bike cable I picked up was out of a pack at Walmart from Bell. I already picked up the Lowe's cable and it seemed to be more sturdy....but also possibly less flexible. I'll stop at the bike shop and see what they can sell me. After lunch I was going to try once more to repair this. It should go MUCH MUCH more quickly this time around.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, get the good stuff.

BTW, I just finished doing the relay mod on my 90vert. Wow, the windows move much faster now. I theory, I will never have to rework the switches again. I highly recommend that you do this while you have the door panels off.

Good Luck!

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

What is this relay mod you speak of?

I got the good cables in today....with the same result.

I fear that the motor mechanism is simply too chewed up. I did notice that the Lowe's cables I bought, while not as tightly wound, or as smoothly coated as the cables from the pro bike shop....they are much much more flexible. That flexibility might lend itself better. Though another option is to get more of the pro shop cables and wind them around a broomstick handle leave them tapped tight to it for a day. Maybe that would help "season" the cables.

One other possible problem is that the grey cable at the top, the tab that holds the cable in place after it comes out of plastic molding is about to fall off. It has zero effect in holding the grey/up cable in place. I believe what happens is that no matter how much tension I'm able to get on the replaced cables, that tab allows enough slack in the grey/up cable that they begin to move out of place inside the motor. I've got some tiny zip ties. I'm going to try using my dremel to bore a hole on either side of that tab and use a zip tie to hold the cable in place. Hopefully that won't ruin the structural soundness of the plastic molding....but if it does I'm not exactly out alot anyway.

I'll try repairing one last time this weekend, if either the more flexible cable or "seasoning" the pro shop cable doesn't work....I'll admit defeat <sigh>

I have taken photos of the replacement process...but on my cellphone camera. Regardless of my success I'll start posting pics...if they are good enough quality. It might serve people well as the vert parts get more and more scarce...and expensive.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=15

Here is the power window relay wiring diagram.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I didn't experience that issue. I took a section of the old cable to the bikeshop and they pretty much matched it.

I am having trouble following you here. Can you post up a picture of exactly the area you are referring to?

Yeah, pics will help the discussion.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the heads up on the mod. I'll read up on it later.

Here's a pic with the tab circled that I believe is part of the problem

I'll get some more pics posted once I get home from running errands and working on the car.

-chief-

I'm having the same issue, the drivers side cable snapped and i have to rewind it.

Any pics you post and directions are greatly appreciated.

Can you tell me the length you cut the new cable, and what type of fastner for the end of the cable.

Thanks

-Joe

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I'll get some pics going.

Lengths are a tad on the long side by as much as an inch, I figured it's better to have too much cable and cut it down to size than start from scratch if it was too short. Fastener were simple cable stays from Lowe's. It'll be in the pics.

Gray cable = 43in
Black cable = 62in

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Minimum tools you'll need:
10mm and 12mm sockets and wrench
phillips head screwdriver
measuring tape
cable cutters
metal file or dremel
grease
cable:1/16 cable stops

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

The pics go on the assumption that the window regulator has been removed. Once the door panel is off you'll need the sockets for the 3 regulator bolts and the 3 motor bolts, 12mm and 10mm respectively.

The window needs to be unbolted from the regulator (either 10 or 12mm bolts, can't remember). These 2 bolts attach a metal plate to the regulator. That plate stays attached to the window and is lifted out with the window.

There are also 2 stoppers on the actual window. Those need to be removed before the window can be lifted out and the window has to be out before the regulator and motor can be removed.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Pics start with the top off the motor.

Notice the white plastic bushing sitting on top. The metal top piece and the plastic piece with outer gear teeth only fit together one way.

Also notice the metal bushing/spring that sits under the white piece.

I can't confirm this part, but I believe that the 2 notched areas on the motor casing correspond with where the gray and black cable anchors should be located once each one is fully extended out of the motor.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

These are the bottom parts of the motor. The white cylindrical piece has a notch on it that both holds the spring inside the bottom piece of the motor, but also that notch fits onto a corresponding notch on the bottom of the motor casing.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

The gray cable housing is associated with the window being all the way up and sits in the top of the plastic molding

The black cable housing is associated with the window being down all the way and sits in the bottom of the plastic molding. The black cable is longer as it wraps around and through a plastic housing on the bottom of the regulator.

Cable lengths:I measured long though and left up to an inch of length on each cable. Better to have them too long and have to re-cut and anchor, than start over.

The oval opening is there to remove and re-install the anchors.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

there was a write up to repair the cables with bicylcle cables, dont know if it helped with the plastic guides.

Mine failed the same way- thought if having someone make a run of replacement guides- but there was little interest.

here is the cut and paste from the write up, I never paid much attention to it as I got a replacement regulator when mine went bad.



Rebuilding power window regulator for convertible
Just got done rebuilding the cables on my 88 covertible's power window regulator. Mazda does not sell replacement cables which is the problem with most power window regulators.

After disassembling mine, I found that a specific bicycle brake cables and common cable housings work. The replacement cables are Jag Wire brand Teflon coated 7x7 super-flex cables (UPC code 715910001950. Physical specs: 1.6(7x7) x 1700mm).
The regulator assembly consists of the power window motor, the window slide rail, and the actuator cables that are connected between the two.
This procedure for rebuilding your regulator assumes you have removed your regulator from your door panel. It is a pretty easy procedure: remove the 3 nuts holding the power window motor and remove the 3 nuts holding the vertical window slide post, remove the 2 nuts holding the window to the slide and wiggle the assembly out of the door opening. Takes about 1 hour.

Procedure for rebuilding

To rebuild your cables:
1) Open the power window motor. 4 screws on circular face pop it open.
2) Keep old cables as measurements for new ones. Clip one end of the metal anchors of the cable and keep the cable housings if they are still good.
3) Replace with wire with bicycle brake cable. You may need to grind the stock brake cable anchor end to match the Mazda cable. You can terminate the other end using a circular garage door cable stop (make sure to strip the cable of Teflon at the terminated ends to prevent the stop from slipping off.

Replacing the new cables.
1) Reattach the cables to the center slide and loop thru the regulator guides.

Attaching cables to the motor.
(Before disassembling mark the position of the slide with the window in the top position).
1) Start with the top window "up" grey housing cable. With the slide in the window up position. Loop the wire around the center spool.
2) Pull the window "down" black housing cable into motor and attach to the metal gear disc; put metal spool on the matching plastic spool.

Tensioning the cables.
So now you've got the up cable wrapped around the plastic spool. You should have only a short length of the black cable in the motor. Make sure you lead it under the plastic spool's rectangular tab. Both cables need to spool on to the plactic center spool. As one releases off the spool one is winding up. So for this to take place, there needs to be tension in the entire cable system.

Here is the key:

Using a small flat head screw driver, jam the plastic spools rectangular tab from moving. There are vertical slots built in the motor casing to accomodate this. Now using a 3/8 socket and ratchet wrench (it fits over the metal gear's spline and will turn it) turn the gear counter clock wise to pull tension in the black cable. The specially designed gear teeth allow slipping counter clockwise but not the opposite direction. Keep ratcheting until the springs in the cable housing are completely compressed and you can’t turn the socket anymore. Once maximum tension is reached the gear spool automatically locks the tension in place.

Reassemble the rest of the motor and test before installing.

If you hear any grinding in the motor or lag in switching between movement up or down, STOP and immediately open the motor again and repeat the spooling and tensioning procedure.

It took me several days of trial and error with my regulator system. But with this procedure, I could rebuild a system in a day now. Parts ran about less than $15 for the entire cable rebuild.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I'm going on the assumption that your OEM cables are either already broken or you've cut them in order to remove them.

You don't need to remove the plastic molding on the bottom of the regulator, but here's a pic of what it looks like removed.

Once that bottom plastic molding is removed the metal plate can slide out of the regulator..but it's not necessary to remove it. There is a pic of the backside of the plate so you can better see how the anchors fit into it.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Yeah that's what I used as my guide for repairing. I just figured some pictures would help out someone in the future.

Thanks for adding that to the thread, every bit helps.

I need to edit more pics before I can post more, it might be tomorrow night before I get an update.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

when mine failed the cables were fine, the guides were broken- so that write up did not help me.

have someone make guides- and with that write up and you are golden