Uh oh, this can't be good... no compression.
11-30-07, 03:09 PM
#51
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Damn!!! I have been using ATF all along to fix all flooding problems I've had. I have never thought on how harmful it would be to rubber seals. It's surprising the number of places where that is the recommended way to fix a flooding problem.
11-30-07, 03:18 PM
#52
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Bloggers are 13 year olds on AOL. 
One day I'll get around to posting those pictures of the oil o-rings turned to jelly after sitting in ATF a few months. Probably not every brand of ATF causes this issue, but certainly the brand I tried (Castrol) did. Without knowing the ingredients in every formulation, it's a pretty big risk to leave it in an engine over a period of time.
As for the original poster, as long as the car has fuel, spark and compression it will start. If all else fails, push start it with another vehicle. Push starting will start even the most flooded car and those with virtually no compression. Then let it run for a while to burn up all the fuel and ATF/oil, then change the plugs.
11-30-07, 03:44 PM
#55
Engine, Not Motor
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11-30-07, 04:00 PM
#56
Oil is housed inside the rotor/shaft/gear/bearing area and is under 30-70psi of pressure and is at higher temperature which thins it out considerably and makes it easy to slip by, which is why oil sometimes bypasses the control rings once they get older.
ATF on the other hand would be housed in the combustion chamber depending on how it is injected, sealed by side and corner seals, PLUS the oil control ring scrapers. The ATF would be under no pressure (with relation to getting inside the oil control orings) and in fact it will tend to be swept out of the exhaust port when the engine is turned. Also it is not used at high temperature and so it is thicker than the motor oil is when the engine is running.
ATF on the other hand would be housed in the combustion chamber depending on how it is injected, sealed by side and corner seals, PLUS the oil control ring scrapers. The ATF would be under no pressure (with relation to getting inside the oil control orings) and in fact it will tend to be swept out of the exhaust port when the engine is turned. Also it is not used at high temperature and so it is thicker than the motor oil is when the engine is running.
12-01-07, 10:17 AM
#57
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I was referring to the oil that seeps by after the engine has shut down, when the rings are stationary. ATF sitting in the engine for a long period (as it is thinner then oil) will seep past.
Really, even if it's completely harmless (which I don't believe), there is no reason to use ATF for anything. If the engine is being stored, there are products on the market for that purpose (fogging oil). If it has flooded, regular old motor oil (or 2 stroke oil since it's thinner and mixes easily with fuel) works perfectly. To decarbonize, there is the water trick or commercial decarbonizing products (and we all know that ATF does not dissolve carbon). Which leaves no reason to use ATF.
Really, even if it's completely harmless (which I don't believe), there is no reason to use ATF for anything. If the engine is being stored, there are products on the market for that purpose (fogging oil). If it has flooded, regular old motor oil (or 2 stroke oil since it's thinner and mixes easily with fuel) works perfectly. To decarbonize, there is the water trick or commercial decarbonizing products (and we all know that ATF does not dissolve carbon). Which leaves no reason to use ATF.
12-01-07, 01:33 PM
#58
Where the heck did my popcorn smiley go? I am getting real tired of having posts deleted with no accountability or explanation. I think I contribute more than enough free, accurate information to this place without compensation to earn a little leeway and respect than is being shown.
Oil seeps past the control rings when the engine is off, due to gravity and the thin oil that is still hot. After all, the oil is being held in mid air, and since the rings are not in motion they don't seal perfectly any more, so some drains down.
I woudnt want to use MMO or 2 cycle for storage or unflooding. You don't want the oil to mix with the gas, you want it to push the gas out the exhaust and seal the chamber. For storage, both of these are probably too thin and tend to drain down to the bottom without staying coated on the seals/springs.
As I have said, motor oil works fine most of the time but it is a bit thicker and can be harder to inject. I also think it doesn't penetrate the seal grooves etc. as well as the slightly thinner ATF.
The reason I'd use ATF over "fogging oil" would be for availability and cost (I have never checked into what fogging oil costs, but I assume it is more than a quart of ATF or motor oil). Plus, odds are that I have a quart of ATF sitting on the shelf without having to make a trip...
I dont think that ATF will do a lot of real cleaning even if left over a period of time, and I do recommend the water treatment instead. Still, I believe having any oily agent sit on the rotor faces for a long period of time can probably soften some of the thinner carbon, and engines I take apart that were stored with ATF or oil in them usually have less carbon still on them.
Oil seeps past the control rings when the engine is off, due to gravity and the thin oil that is still hot. After all, the oil is being held in mid air, and since the rings are not in motion they don't seal perfectly any more, so some drains down.
I woudnt want to use MMO or 2 cycle for storage or unflooding. You don't want the oil to mix with the gas, you want it to push the gas out the exhaust and seal the chamber. For storage, both of these are probably too thin and tend to drain down to the bottom without staying coated on the seals/springs.
As I have said, motor oil works fine most of the time but it is a bit thicker and can be harder to inject. I also think it doesn't penetrate the seal grooves etc. as well as the slightly thinner ATF.
The reason I'd use ATF over "fogging oil" would be for availability and cost (I have never checked into what fogging oil costs, but I assume it is more than a quart of ATF or motor oil). Plus, odds are that I have a quart of ATF sitting on the shelf without having to make a trip...
I dont think that ATF will do a lot of real cleaning even if left over a period of time, and I do recommend the water treatment instead. Still, I believe having any oily agent sit on the rotor faces for a long period of time can probably soften some of the thinner carbon, and engines I take apart that were stored with ATF or oil in them usually have less carbon still on them.
12-01-07, 02:54 PM
#59
Rotaries can be flooded to the extent that they freespin and generate almost zero compression (on a gauge or in reality). I've had it happen a few times before...not just your standard "hmm, it won't start, just turns, wonder why?" type flooding. This type of flooding actually sounds like the starter is just freespinning, not even turning the engine.
12-01-07, 03:17 PM
#60
1.3L piston eater
^^^mine did that when i first installed my microtech, engine was spinning so damn fast!!! but we got er started eventually after extreme de-flooding procedures
12-01-07, 05:01 PM
#61
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Also, I have yet to get it to start. I've been doing the unflooding procedure, but I had to stop because my battery started to die, plus the weather got shitty and the garage is being occupied by a Dodge Durango. I just threaded the spark plugs back in so I won't get moisture in the engine and decided to wait until the weather clears up a little. I'm really hoping that these tricks will work and my car will be running by this week.
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