turboed n/a oil return
12-02-05, 01:05 PM
#1
King of the Loop
Thread Starter
turboed n/a oil return
Hey guiys iw as just discussing my turboed n/a project with a friend of mine. I am trying to find a way to get this all done without removing the engine form the car and he suggested something. It seems old cartech turbo kits tapped the oil cooler lines for the oil return. HAs anyone here done this? Any pics?
12-02-05, 01:31 PM
#5
tom port.. AKA streetport
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ludlow, pa
Posts: 4,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some say tap the front cover, some say tap the oil pan,< that is what i did. mine was leaking like a sin anyways so it seemed logic. its probably possible. id also like to see pics on how they did this/ probavly just put a "T" there.
12-02-05, 01:37 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Performance Improvements
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
id say taping the oil pan would be more efficent and less worriesome .... considering that the oil would probably be the coolest there ... given its position ... but yeah ... i say oilpan
Trending Topics
12-02-05, 02:02 PM
#8
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Sticks Maine
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say if possible dont try to tap the oil pan. Since its not thick it would probably leak easily. If theres a reasonably flat spot look into getting a properly sized bulkhead type fitting. It would be easier to install and much stronger and less prone to leaking. This is of course you have the required flat spot.
12-02-05, 02:41 PM
#10
12-02-05, 03:05 PM
#11
tom port.. AKA streetport
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ludlow, pa
Posts: 4,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is it true you should have some kind of resistence in the return line to keep pressure down?? i thought that couldnt be right. since the return is zero pressure, shouldnt this be good enough for the anount of pressure coming form the inlet side of the oil? that would be the who;e reason you need ZERO back pressure correct? and what is the stock amount of pressure of the inlet going to the turbo in a tII?
12-02-05, 03:21 PM
#13
King of the Loop
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Houstonderk
Id say just get a Tii front cover and foget about it. Its pretty easy and could change the oil pump to. Besides, you need to put the chain baffle on there from the Tii.
12-02-05, 04:32 PM
#14
Rotartist
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Spring Hill TN 37174
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
You can remove the front cover without removing the engine, this would be the best way to achieve the return. It is the correct part and BANZAI RACING has them on sale for $30 shipped.
12-02-05, 05:03 PM
#15
very sleepy!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RRTEC
You can remove the front cover without removing the engine, this would be the best way to achieve the return. It is the correct part and BANZAI RACING has them on sale for $30 shipped.
do they have the chain baffle plate as well?
12-02-05, 06:31 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-02-05, 06:33 PM
#17
Tapping the pan is a no-no in my book. The metal is too thin to hold anything threaded into it for long. Your best bet is to tap the front cover where the TII return normally goes. This can be accomplished with the engine in the car, but it does have some difficulty. You will need to remove the oil pan while drilling and tapping, (1/2" NPT), to make sure you can remove all of the aluminum shavings.
If you really want the return in the pan, then remove it and weld a bung on it, just below the flange, between 2 bolt holes. After the bung is welded on, drill the center of it for the hole and thoroughly clean any debris. Do not use the oil drain plug for the return, the return oil can back up in the return tube because the return oil in not under pressure. The only pressure involved in the return tube is head pressure, which is the weight of the oil times the vertical distance of the fall, that is not enough pressure to overcome the weight of the oil in the pan.
If you really want the return in the pan, then remove it and weld a bung on it, just below the flange, between 2 bolt holes. After the bung is welded on, drill the center of it for the hole and thoroughly clean any debris. Do not use the oil drain plug for the return, the return oil can back up in the return tube because the return oil in not under pressure. The only pressure involved in the return tube is head pressure, which is the weight of the oil times the vertical distance of the fall, that is not enough pressure to overcome the weight of the oil in the pan.
12-02-05, 07:00 PM
#18
The biggest and most important reason to never tap the oil pan is because the drain level must be above the oil level in the pan. This is why they return to the front cover on the factory turbos. The oil will back up in the drain line if it returns below the oil level in the pan. This will put alot of pressure on the turbo seals and you will have an oil leak in your turbo at some point because of this. I know that some people like to think that the level in the return tube would equalize with that in the pan. This is true over time but it is not instantaneous. Due to the oil always flowing, it can't equalize fast enough and backs up. This isn't water. It's thicker and slower.
There are lots of people that do send the return line below oil level. If you can get it in the pan above oil level then you'll be fine. Every single person or company that sends the return under oil level has done it wrong. Period. If they haven't hurt their turbo's oil seals yet, they will. You can count on it. It will happen. Tap the front cover. Even the Atkins supercharger taps it there. Some companies provide oil pan taps but this is only because it's cheap, relatively easy, and they'll still make money off of it. If the turbo bearings go out, they'll just claim you abused it. So much for any warranty on the turbo at that point.
There are lots of people that do send the return line below oil level. If you can get it in the pan above oil level then you'll be fine. Every single person or company that sends the return under oil level has done it wrong. Period. If they haven't hurt their turbo's oil seals yet, they will. You can count on it. It will happen. Tap the front cover. Even the Atkins supercharger taps it there. Some companies provide oil pan taps but this is only because it's cheap, relatively easy, and they'll still make money off of it. If the turbo bearings go out, they'll just claim you abused it. So much for any warranty on the turbo at that point.
12-03-05, 03:16 AM
#21
Banzai Racing
Makes more sense to install a TII front cover, this allows you to install a higher volume TII oil pump at the same time. It make it much easier to install a stock turbo considering the factory oil return line can them be used. For the oil supply line we drill and tap the front plate in the same location that it is on the TII, allowing the use of the factory oil supply as well.
12-03-05, 10:17 AM
#23
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 108 Likes
on
91 Posts
Don't worry about the thin material in the pan when tapping. If you use an NPT tap, the taper will seal it up perfectly. That's one of the reasons why NPT threads where invented. 
There's also basically no pressure at the oil drain.
Me and SonicRat have posted oil drail locations so many times it's getting crazy. Again, here is a summary:
1. Front cover. It's always above the oil level in the pan, but it's a pain to remove and tap. No real issue with tapping it while it is on the car, but make sure to flush out the oil pan of any chips. Physical access is also a little funky.
2. Tap the oil pan. Fairly easy to do on the car, and if NPT is used it will seal well. Generally going to be below the oil level, which in my experience has not been a problem. If the tapping is done sloppy, it WILL leak due to the small amount of threads. If tapping is done carefully, it will seal very well. Need to flush the pan to remove any metal chips.
3. Bolt on a flange. Several manufacturers (ie. Russel) make flanges with AN fittings designed to be bolted to the flat side of an oil pan. You just drill a hole, drill and tap the bolt holes then bolt on the flange. The result is a -10 flare on your oil pan. Unfortunately the FC pan does not have any flat spots near the turbo area.
4. Weld on a fitting. This is my favourite. Remove the pan, drill a hole and the weld on the appropriate fitting (I usually use 1/2" NPT). Won't leak. Requires removal of the pan (perfect opportunity to install that baffle and replace the leaking gaskets). Generally places the drain location below oil level.
There's also basically no pressure at the oil drain.Me and SonicRat have posted oil drail locations so many times it's getting crazy. Again, here is a summary:
1. Front cover. It's always above the oil level in the pan, but it's a pain to remove and tap. No real issue with tapping it while it is on the car, but make sure to flush out the oil pan of any chips. Physical access is also a little funky.
2. Tap the oil pan. Fairly easy to do on the car, and if NPT is used it will seal well. Generally going to be below the oil level, which in my experience has not been a problem. If the tapping is done sloppy, it WILL leak due to the small amount of threads. If tapping is done carefully, it will seal very well. Need to flush the pan to remove any metal chips.
3. Bolt on a flange. Several manufacturers (ie. Russel) make flanges with AN fittings designed to be bolted to the flat side of an oil pan. You just drill a hole, drill and tap the bolt holes then bolt on the flange. The result is a -10 flare on your oil pan. Unfortunately the FC pan does not have any flat spots near the turbo area.
4. Weld on a fitting. This is my favourite. Remove the pan, drill a hole and the weld on the appropriate fitting (I usually use 1/2" NPT). Won't leak. Requires removal of the pan (perfect opportunity to install that baffle and replace the leaking gaskets). Generally places the drain location below oil level.
12-03-05, 03:22 PM
#25
Originally Posted by BklynRX7
Ive decided to just buyt thii front cover and let someone install it that way I can use the stock returnn lines and the bigger oil pump.
good idea, crankcase pressure and oil drainage issues are a pita to fix after it's all said and done. better to do it the right way first.