Relisys190

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so i've heard it from Sureshot, and i've heard it from 1987RX7Guy, but i wanna know if it's really true... ok lets compare. On my car right now i have Stock Manifold/bonez Race pipe/Borla Catback system (very nice sound/tone...

I am going to be getting my headers next week, but than i remember you saying something about true duals makeing the most power for an N/A... is this true? Should i get the headers and stick with a single pipe exhaust, or should i wait a while and get a trual dual system?

-Markus

"Thanks... "

ponykiller

Click Here

RoninAutoBoX

LOL. The old switcheroo.

RoninAutoBoX

What I want to know is if the true duals are quiter, or louder than a single.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Well there is controversy on them but I don't really care about the nay sayers. TRUE DUALS are very good.

http://mazdatrix.com/e1.htm

Read that.

Yes the system sold by mazdatrix is the one that produces the most HP of any exhaust systems sold. They have a dynograph and a small video clip of the car running with it. I personally don't think that clip gives the exhaust tone "sound" any justice. They sound very good. I don't think either MAX-IMAL or Wankel7 would dissagree with me about that. They can be very quiet if you drive nicely or hve a nice growl under WOT. I think that my exhaust sounds a bit better than Sureshot's but it is probably due to my RB mufflers. I would recommend the True Duals to anyone that is looking for a good exhaust.and compared to a collected exhaust it does provide more power and less noise. NO 3k rpm drone.

If you have any questions about them let me know of e-mail the owners of Mazdatrix.

Santiago

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I have already stated this in other threads and firmly stand by my oppinion and the simple fact is that a collected exhaust with two mufflers is always quieter compared to a single muffler of the same type/brand. So by this conclusion you must admit that two mufflers are simply not as loud as one.

Santiago

RoninAutoBoX

Cool. I wonder in my local exhaust shop would put something together for me that wouldn't have any cats. It wouldn't be much more than getting the Bonez race pipe and some decent mufflers.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

in some areas it is not legal to do that. So the shop may not agree to do the work. BUT you could say it is for your race car. Or not take the car with you just the info on what to make. Personally I would rather have my MT DUALS

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

If you have a stock non-ported engine, true duals will make the most power. Sound level and tone can be determined by what brand mufflers you have and what style they are such as straight through or otherwise. Some people love the tone others don't. I am part of the latter group. If you have a ported engine of any kind you do not want true duals. I have already posted on this a thousand times already yet this question comes up over and over and over again every few days. There is a books worth of reasons why you don't want them on ported engines and it takes a little bit of knowledge as to how exhausts function the way they do to understand this. I have had both systems (collected and uncollected) and I personally will only use the collected. Then again none of my engines have the stock porting. A muffler shop will only fab up an exhaust with no cat if you take it to them with no cat on it. Just tell them it is a car you are trying to fix up or that it is your race car. That has always worked for me. They will not remove any emissions devices if they are equipped with them.

mazdaspeed7

First off, you have your opinions. Your word isnt gospel, nro is anyone elses here. Dont lead people to believe youre the allmighty when it comes to RX7's. Second, I actually have personal experience with both, and I prefer single. The tone is better, and singles have been proven time and time again to make more power. Just ask ANYONE who races IT7's.

You like your true duals, nothing wrong with that, its your opinion. I like single, and its my opinion. Opinions are totally beside the facts. The facts are that singles make more power, period.

And dont you think it would be bad advertising to say anything negative about something youre trying to sell? Of course Mazdatrix will say their exhaust is the best. Im not saying its not good, but it is not the best for everyone.

rx7raca

well said mazdaspeed, i can never dertmine which makes more power, i have all these "true duals" guys here saying ya they are better blah blah but then u get like one or two pple saying single is better because it is lighter and thats where u get ur power, but then they say "oh but its alot louder", how loud is it really?

mazda u say its got a nice tone but no1 really knows what u think is a good tone and what another would say is a good tone.

i would like to go single but im not sure yet, im still in the thinking process of what i should do.

this is the best way to determine what makes more power...DYNO RESULTS!!!
if anyone has any compareing the two that would be great.
so then we wont see this thread pop up every 3 days. everytime i read another thread about this topic, i can never make a choice. so lets get some hard proof to which is better and call it a day.

also mazda i hear that the duals are better for low end torque, is this true? how does the single feel from the duals?

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

YES FOR ALL READING: THe fact that someone says THIS or THAT is BEST is not to be taken as FACT. MS7 and I BOTH show different oppinions.

I AM NOT ANY ALMIGHTY GOD NOR WILL I EVER BE NO ONE IS.


You can't say that and expect people to take it as FACT. I personally don't like the tone of a single exhaust you do.

EVERY one Better, Best, worst, all those words and those like them are used in OPPINIONS unless they are backed up by EVIDANCE that prooves them to be CORRECT.

MS7- I have asked you to proove this with Dyno numbers or to even pay you for one of these exhausts if you could do it for the same amount of money as the MT system. You have yet to do this or any OTHER person to even show me something that IS PROOF. All you say is it has been proven. But you don't show us anything or give us a link. I personally could care less if some IT7 guy SAYs its better or makes more HP. If I don't see proof I don't buy it.

You say for us to ask some race guys. BUT you yourself said NO ONE'S WORK IS GOSPEL so why should we beleive them??

Also, We don't have IT7 cars or do we? do we have the ability to tolerate high levels of noise every day? I DON'T I don't think these exhausts would be quiet would they? Would you care to share a recording of said exhaust? or a reading of how many decibles (sp??) they are idleing and at various RPMs and at WOT
I have hear recordings of True Duals on here and they really do no justice to the actuall sound. Hopefully I will have some $$ to buy a DB meter and post some numbers later on.

I know its my oppinion and it is the oppinion of several other owners and not just mine.

Yep

We have yet to see any REAL PROOF other than you saying so.

Ofcoarse it is bad to say something negative about your own product.

But don't you think that if they sold a complete single exhaust like the ones you speak of for the same amount of money they would make a LOT MORE MONEY????

Lets take one example here just to compare: There is a person that is selling a new telescope that uses dual lenses and has the magnafication power of 100X. Well IF he could make the same telescope with the same power rating of 100X with only one lense he would save the money for the second lens wouldn't he? He could sell the telescope for the same price as before and increase profit. It would also increase reliability with less parts so he would get a better reputation for it.

Take that into account when you think about what Mazdatrix is selling it wouldn't make sense to me if it wasn't better.

100% agree with you: Not everyone has 1300+ dollars to spend. Not everyone wants a dual exhaust, not everyone likes RB mufflers or HKS mufflers. for that matter not everyone wants all that HP or the shiny mufflers or functioning auxilary ports or a sound that doesn't hurt your ears at 3k rpms.



Fact of the matter is I like them and Mazdatrix has a dynograph. I bought them and like the power and my car does NOT feel heavy at all. I don't feel the tone is bad or that the volume is too high. I have compared it to a collected dual muffler exhaust and will not change to one EVER unless I buy a TII.


Until Mazdaspeed7 or some IT7 guy comes up with a dynograph of a 100% stock car with a single exhaust that makes more power at a tolerable noise level for everyday use I can't say a single is worth it at all.

Santiago

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

I'm yet to see anyone make more power than me in a stock ecu'd car, then back it up with some 1/4 times. I've heard of people putting down 200rwhp hear and there, but never have seen a dyno sheet. I've heard of people running 14.0s on street tires, but have never seen a video to back it up. And when it comes down to it, M7, there are alot of guys in the northwest who run true duels or there IT7s/pro 7s etc. Not to mention the guys who run gt1,2, and 3.

So until I see someone who's making 170+rwhp on a mustang dyno (not a dyno jet.) with a single exhaust, I'm gonna have to stay with my dual setup. CJ

mazdaspeed7

That suprises me. Of all of the It7 guys I have talked to before, not a single one had true dual. Not that I dont believe you though.

True duals are not tuned. There is no scavenging effect. They make hp from sheer flow. Singles do scavenge, and in theory, can and do flow more in their powerband. But they also can flow less out of their powerband.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

how wide is a single's powerband usually? like say from 5-8k rpm????


Santiago



PS-

DROOOL!

Slammedblk7

iTrader: (7)

i like my single exhaust, RB Header->Presilencer-> Apexi N1....flows nice..

SureShot

The short answer: On a stock ported motor, duels are a foolproof mod.
If you must run a cat, the collector length requires some tuning expertise, but works as well.

projekt

very aggrivating seeing 'true duels' written so many times, i didn't hear any gunshots though.

MS7: by single you're talking no Y pipe right? if you wanted to do this on the street would you just have to put 3 glass packs after the presilencer?

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Well from what I recal of MS7' argument. He is talking about a collected system with only one muffler and not y pipe. But you have to selecte the area where the pipes connect off of the headers so that you get the power in a specific area.

mazdaspeed7

By single, I mean ANY collected exhaust, whether it has dual mufflers or now. True duals meand a seperate pipe for each rotor, and they never converge. I use the term single very broadly, but in the above context, its any collected exhaust, whether it has a y pipe, or only one muffler.

BDoty311

How many of these threads have we had already?

Somebody starts it asking whats better, dual or single. 1987RX7GUY jumps in like "DUALS ARE THE BOOOMBB!", then Mazdaspeed7 comes in and clears things up letting people know that single is better, then they both argue for awhile.

Then someone comes to the conclusion that Dual is better for stock-port motors or for better low-end, and Single is better for overall power on ported motors, but is louder.

BTW- collected is the way to go.

mazdaspeed7

Glad im not the only one who is sick of all this bullshit.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

BDoty311- Where did he show proof of anything??

I didn't see a dynograph. Did you?

BDoty311

I didnt say he Proved anything, the only reason you say anything about a dynograph is because mazdatrix dyno'd their system, otherwise neither would you.

And anybody who has been around the forum awhile will know that Mazdaspeed7 knows what he is talking about when it comes to exhaust systems.

Take a search on "exhaust" and see just how many exhaust threads that Adam has responded to.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

BDoty311- To me MS7 has nothing to show for the collected exhaust. I have asked many times and he has done nothing all of those times. I offered to pay him up to 1300 dollars for and exhaust that he could build for me that would match the uncollected exhaust. He didn't do anything or PM me or nothing. I don't care about IT7 I don't care abour race built cars. I care about proof. Mazdatrix put up that proof and no one else has done that. Until some other company does I will remain supportive of the uncollected exhaust be it home made or sold by mazdatrix.