zigger1

I am considering changing my trottle body from a three port to a single. I want to find something off of another mazda and wondered if any other model (ie. a 626) uses the same TPS as on an 87' non turbo. If anyone knows of another alternative like an after market trottle body or a way to do away with the tps let me know.

Scott 89t2

there is no need to change it... it is not a restricter. it flows more then the manifolds do.

seventhgear

why u wanna change?

NZConvertible

That'd be throttle body...

I've seen 400+hp 13BT's use that TB, so I wouldn't worry about it. It can be easily modified and ported for a bit more flow through.

GLHS

bro our TB is 45 MM each being they have 3 X 45 = 135 MM TB.. and that is ****** hugh....

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

um...hmmm....someones math is very flawed! Actually closer to a 78mm but still very large.

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

There is no direct replacement but yes there is an alternative to answer your question its an aftermarket mustang TB you get from a summit catalog plus some fabrication. You might want to ask ROTARYGOD on the forum but i too strongly suggest sticking with the stock TB

GLHS

BAD math.. WTF... the TB is 3 X 45mm. now how does that equal 78 mm?


Either way keep the stocker, and if you port it, do not touch the primary, only do the secondaries.. You want to keep the velocity of the primary.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

The diameter is 45 MM. By your math, you're stacking 3 circles on top of eachother, and expecting it to be another complete circle.

You need to find the surface area of 1 plate, multiply by 3. That's the same surface area as around a 78mm plate.

GLHS

Time to get the micrometer out and see what it really is.

Jimmy325i

What you guys fail to realize is that a single hole will out flow three smaller holes of the same size.

Sure the TB will flow enough for 400Hp under boost. it has a damn turbo to force air through it! With nothing but the engine vacuum to draw air in, it becomes much more restrictive.

I'm about to do the same conversion when I go to a custom single chamber plenum. Haven't decided what TB I'm gonna use yet though.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Liquid Anarchy that is the point.

Figure out the AREA of each circle then multiply by 3. Pi x radius squared is the area of a circle. A 45mm circle has an area of 1589.625 sq. mm. x 3 equals 4768.875 sq. mm. A 78 mm circle has an area of 4775.94 sq. mm which is the closest size comparable. Anyone want to fiqure out how much area the throttle shafts take up and recompare?

Jimmy: I do realize that actually

NZConvertible

That's obviously true, but the fact is the stock TB is still a very high flowing unit, particulary for an NA. Unless you're making a lot of power (i.e. turbo) the actual improvement from changing to a bigger single TB won't be that much, because as has already been mentioned, the stock manifold itself is also a restriction.

Jimmy325i

which is why I'll be converting to a custom manifold in the process....

I already have enough power to slam the flapper open from accelleration. I'd say I'm making enough power to benefit from a less restrictive intake and TB.

NZConvertible

Yeah, but the guy who asked probably isn't. It's a lot of work for little gain on a stock manifold. I read your thread on this and had a little chuckle. I don't know what's causing your problem but it's certainly not your massive acceleration.
The flap's movement is balanced by another flap at 90deg to the one in the airstream that acts as a damper. That's what the curved bit sticking out the side of the AFM is for. As one swings back, the other swings forward, so it's physically impossible for g-force to influence its movement. Looking forward to some pics and results.

Jimmy325i

Physically impossible huh? So the air entering the intake has no mass of its own?

The rate at which the flapper door opens determines what the computer sees so when I hammer on it that rate increases too rapidly. This is caused by the influx of air being too great and potentially the inertia of the flapper swinging. All I know is that I have a problem with my afm flooding my engine at lower rpms if I hammer on it too hard.

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

So your gonna make a custom manifold and a bigger throttle body to try and pull as much air as possible through that same afm? Don't get me wrong you seem to know your stuff well but why don't you try and adjust the idle adjust screw near the boost sensor. You say it is "flooding", adjust the screw to turn down the mixture and that will fix that problem, pulling in more air won't. If your thinking the idle adjust screw is only for the idle...its not it does affect how much fuel to get until the secondaries come on.

Roy James

Jimmy325i- Interesting problem. I cant think of any reason for it to do that. I dont think your tq is high enough to pull that **** through so fast, it drops it down. Have you modded your AFM in any way?
I also dont think you should worry about a new TB or Manifold with a stock port engine (im not saying your engine is stock ported, im more or less asking). If you have a bad *** BP or something, then you might, but i think the stock manifold might be decent espcially ported.

Edit:

Sniper_X and i were talking about your "problem" and he suggested "have him pull [afm] off, check for SOME resistance when he pushes it , make sure it stays closed when its upside down.". He thinks your spring may be soft.

Maybe get another AFM from a buddy and put it on your car to see if its really your "power" or a faulty AFM.

Good luck

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

What rpms are we talking about anyways?

Jimmy325i

I've actually got a heavily modded n/a which uses a ported S5 TII intermediate housing (thicker casting so the porting can be bigger) and the biggest porting possible within the confines of drivablity on the secondary housings. (not too much overlap and right up to the very edge of the 6 ports) <no bridges because I don't like engines that only last 6 mos>

I've tried another afm while investigating some kind of bump stop for the flapper door. (doesn't work as the flapper is maxed out at WO at 61% unless slammed open when it reads up to 100%) So my normal driving will produce readings as high as the meter will go.

My car is N/A! I don't need no stinking turbo to get well over 200hp on the ground. I ran my roommate who's car is a 97 LS integra with a t3/t4 pushing 12psi and a dyno proven 238hp at the wheels. We were dead even. (pissed both of us off for different reasons) Both cars are within 100lbs of each other and he's got much better tires.

As for me figuring out my little problem before making the car capable of flowing even more air.... Hogwash! I'll probably be going to the megasquirt in the spring and the stupid afm will be listed with the parts one on ebay for some poor sap who needs that pile of ****.

Oh, and my afm is bone stock other than the custom 3" adaptor bolted to the front of it with a cheapy filter hanging on that. I was looking at it when swapping the parts one for readings and thought to myself "this thing could use some porting."

We're talking about somewhere around 4K when the phenomenon occurs. (pretty close to peak torque) It happens within a second of the 1-2 shift if I have it wide open and dump the clutch. If I feather out the clutch and rev her even higher it doesn't occur and I still tear away from whoever is lined up against me. (except for that damn integra!) I also run out of the stock fuel capacity at 8300rpm when the halmeter goes super lean and the car hits a brick wall acceleration wise. I should be pulling well past 9500 with my porting the way this thing thrashes at 8K right now. She's very thirsty up there and not getting any gas.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Soooo... your being able to keep up with cars automatically gives you the same HP numbers as they have? Hit a dyno.

And as said before, most TII's don't max out the stock AFM, I HIGHLY doubt ANY N/A (nevertheless yours) would doso either.

Jimmy325i

Liquid... I'll race you right now mr armchair weed dealing quarterback backseat driver.... My 7 actually runs!


I've never claimed to be maxing it out. I've simply encountered a problem with the type of air metering system the ecu uses. If you'd actually read what I've said you would realize that 61% is far from "maxing it out" but I can induce forces upon it which cause the thing to read greater than the air its flowing and therefore FLOODING the engine!

I'm fully aware that I probably don't have the same hp to the ground. But I'm also aware that I can keep up with 330hp heavier cars as well. (`02 camaro SS) Dyno tuning will commence as soon as I decide what route I'll be taking as far as engine management is concerned.

I take it the drug trade has gone south with the economy and now you're trying your hand at CF?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, MO's kindof dry. DEA's crackin down.

CF is easy, I have the people; moreover, I wanted some CF stuff for myself.

Next business: Meth Lab

Once I start hitting the meth pretty hard, THEN I might believe you're running a 13.6 in the ¼-mile (seeing as that's what the SS Camaro's that you're "keeping up with" run)

BTW, what's with the Mr. Armchair thing? That I don't understand.

Roy James

13.6 in the 1/4 with nothing but ported intermediate housings and bolt ons?? I would like to see a video of this. Surely you can afford a camera and a trip to the track, prove us wrong my man. Im not going to say you cant, but i will doubt you as i dont think those little mods can pull a mid 13.

Jimmy325i

It's called ported everything.... All ports are ported. Even the 6 ports holes are ported. The TII intermediate housing has bigger runners than the n/a does, then those are ported out. The lower intake manifold is port matched to the runners, and the manifold itself is ported for better flow. Its a bit more than just the intermediate housing and bolt ons.

As for taking a camera to the track... it's 14 degrees here and snowing. Tracks have been closed since the week prior to me getting my engine broken in. I was really hoping to be able to get some times this fall but it didn't happen.

Liquid, the whole comment you don't understand is that you have posted as if you do these mods yet your car doesn't and hasn't ever run. You have no emperical knowledge to share with anyone here.