Black91n/a

You just seem like such a greasy salesman type to me, and I hate dealing with that type of person. You "won" the last one by refusing to give any proof or evidence of your claims and trying to discredit me for not having bought and tested the product to see if it did or did not do as you claimed. Since when is the burden of proof on the customer? There's something seriously wrong with that attitude.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Heres my experience with engine mounts. I have $40 ebay aluminum mounts that look like hockey pucks, the only transmission to chassis support I have is a manual and auto crossmember welded together (still allows for lots of movement). I've done 7000 rpm clutch dumps, gotten 2 feet + of air on hills at around 60mph several times and driven the car 40,000 miles with absolutely no issues whatsoever.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

^ thats all well and good...but OP doesn't care about solid mounts.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

I love threads like this.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

I understand that, the discussion at hand is questioning the purpose of the cups on the stock motor mounts which the solids don't have.

Malefoda

I just realized that the OP is me! (Non good-english speaking guy inside)
Yes I want "R/T" style, these days and maybe for months my S4 is my daily drive.
I've made up my mind and it will be Mazda Comp stuff.

Please all of you guys, more love!
Ted you main flaw is that you are tough, it seems you hate waste your time saying gain and again same things but people (as me!) ahve no xp and are lazy...
Banzai guy, thanks for your explanations anyway.
KhanArtisT, what are your wheels?

Love!

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

^^
You are correct he likes to think of himself as tough, just another E-thug.

Ted- K2rd has not had a presence in the rotary community for how long 5-6 years? Why was it you got canned? That's right "philosophical differences", meaning that no one could get along with you back then either.

Being a tech advisor why would you block the airflow to your radiator with a large Ebay FMIC that has no piping since you are running a stock intercooler? I think this is called RICE, Mr. FC3S-pro (not).

You would think with the fabrication, design, and superior tech skills that you claim to have aquired in your 1 year at K2RD you could have seen the exhaust issue on the 20B and made a heat shield in about 20 min. Instead you want to say the failure of the delron mount, in a completely custom application is becasue the mounts suck. You are the one smoking crack.

If you would follow a little of your own advice and do some research you would find I not in Sales, that is all handled by Elaine.

(patiently waiting your lame retort) I am sure there are some spelling errors for your to pick apart.

Malefoda

I don't blame Ted to be tough, I am the tough -and hated for this- guy of my french forum... defo a good and a bad quality at the same time!

Whizbang

f it. im just welding my engines to my chassis from now on.



/sarcasm

Black91n/a

You speak of superior skills, etc, yet your mounts are the laziest design possible. Seriously, how long does it take to "design" a round piece of plastic with a hole in it and a piece of metal on either side?

I have a suggestion to those who want poly mounts. Get a group of interested parties together and buy yourselves a rod of poly, cut it into pucks of the right size (measure up a stock mount), make some ~1/8" washers from sheet steel and get some metric grade 10.9 hardware and you'll have mounts for a bunch cheaper. For instance there's this site here that offers 3"x36" 95A hardness rods for $153 (educated guess on the diameter, should be good for something like 8-10 sets of mounts assuming ~2" length), the metal sheet would be maybe $30 for a sheet of 1'x2' 11 gauge (just under 1/8", should be more than enough for 10 3" diameter mounts) and maybe $7/ea for the hardware. All in all that's about $15/ea for the poly, about $3/ea for the sheet metal and the $7.50 for the hardware based on a group of 10. If you can't source locally add maybe an extra $5/ea for shipping and with a little time and effort you've got yourself some $30 engine mounts, compared to $130 from Banzai.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...oduct_id=13104

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

^^
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Since you are a "engineer" now take a closer look at our design. They are adjustable, this actually means something. I will let you figure it out on your own though, since it seems you need to be spoonfed every piece of information, you may not ever be able to figure it out. Hint: read our installation instructions. Hint #2 there is welding involved.

Your right spend $153+ shipping on just one of the raw materials, then try to figure out how to cut, then cob up some half *** endcaps, that is much easier then buying ours for $130 shipped that are precision cut, with laser cut endcaps that are e-coated.

Laziest designs possible, hockey puck & solid aluminum, next in line Delron with all-thread rod

Ours is not even on the charts for lazy, it even took you a complete paragraph to write down how to try to make a mount that does not have the functions or quality of ours.

You can have the last word as well, I know you will come back with some incorrect statement about something, just because it is what you do, so have at it.

There are endcaps, for heat and wear protection, like stock but shaped different, I know this is hard for you to grasp so here is a picture:



http://www.banzai-racing.com/polyfc_motor_mounts.htm

joe1573

iTrader: (14)

If you don't like a product or the person who selling it, you shouldn't bash people do. That's very weak, if you are just then the fax will back you.

I brought my car to Banzai after a lot of research and don't regret anything I have bought or had done by Banzai. Chris is always very informative and helpful with suggestions and he puts a lot of thought behind his product. Ive seen products developed by Chris come from needs of his customers and not just to make a quick buck.

I may not be an race car builder, but I'm not "ignorant" when it comes to make a decision about my car. For the record I would never buy or deal with a guy or shop that thinks "Most customers are ignorant" .

+1 Banzai engine mounts

Black91n/a

How about you don't insult my credentials, I'm a degree holding Mechanical Engineer, not an "engineer". By the way, what field is your degree in?

Good for you, you welded a nut onto a plate. In the end you'll still need to torque it down just as much to prevent the poly from compressing enough (from the torque) to let the bolt get loose, so in the end it really doesn't mean much. If that torque is less, then just use all metal locknuts and you won't have to worry about them getting loose. In fact, it could easily lead to mounts not being properly tightened if they turn the nut untill its tight while keeping the bolt stationary, then don't tighten the bolt down properly, that would be bad and could easily lead to a bolt failure. Your instructions are very vague on the tightening procedure ("thread nut onto end of bolt and tighten with wrench. "), and they don't give any torque values. Or maybe this is your all inclusive cop out for "incorrect installation" for any and all failures that might arise so that you can claim that they don't fail when "properly installed".

Because cutting a piece of plastic to length and cutting circles in a piece of sheet metal is just sooooo far beyond the capabilities of a person, right? It's not that hard to make neat circles with a sabre saw and clean up the edges with a grinder or a file. In the end, does it really matter if it's not 100% round? Not at all. Heck, why not just re-use the stock bottom cup on top for even more protection (would give some shielding from the sides too)? If you're feeling ambitious you could even try to cut the mounts out of the top cups on your old mounts and use them too. It's also more like $30/ea to make your own set of mounts, not much more than it is to buy them from you as you would try to lead people to believe. Yes, it will require a bit of time and effort, but it would seem to me that the average FC owner has more time than money, so this is usually a desired tradeoff of time spent for money saved. That is also just an example, you could likely get scraps big enough to use from a local plastics supplier for next to nothing, or find someone selling smaller sizes for less if you don't want to get a group together. In the end if WILL be cheaper to make them yourself if you shop around a bit.

Ok, so maybe not THE laziest, but in the end it's still a disk of material with a fastener through it, which is the same basic design as those you listed, with a couple little tweaks.

Yea, shaped different as in flat. My description has that too, that's what the sheet metal's for, cutting some of those big "endcaps", which are basically just huge washers.

Black91n/a

Most customers ARE ignorant. Maybe not the ones on this board, but we account for only a small portion of the population. Just look at threads asking things like how to change the oil and maybe you'll see that many people know next to nothing about their cars or the products they're buying for them.

scathcart

Overall, this style is a poor design. These mounts only isolate in compression. The full tensile force on the mounts will be directly transmitted to the subframe via the solid bolt. Additionally, the mounts do not simply receive tensile and compressive stresses: engine torque attempts to rotate the engine against its mounts. The mounts offer no isolation here, either: the entire shear stress is absorbed entirely by the bolt as well.

Testing these mounts against solid mounts (welded plate aluminum) saw absolutely no noticable difference in NVH.

A properly designed polyurethane mount can be seen here, where no direct steel connection between the motor and chassis exists, and the urethane acts in all forces placed upon it: http://www.awrracing.com/pages/enginemounts.html

RETed

You really should STFU.
You just showed how ignorant you really are.
Obviously, you have no clue on the physics behind the design.
Go look up the words "compression" and "tension" before you go mouthing off another stupid reply.


-Ted

Black91n/a

If I wanted something othe than a Mazda Comp mount, that's what I'd get, since it's the only properly designed mount that I've ever seen that doesn't have a Mazda part number on it. It's only 65% more expensive (it should be less if you ordered through Mazda Motorsports if you're a member), but you get so much more than the price difference might suggest (a bunch more material, much more fabrication time, a much more complex design). If you accept the Banzai price as fair, then those are a great deal.

There's a reason why Mazda Motorsports sells AWR stuff and why I've got some of their pieces on my car, they make good stuff.

AmviciousRav

iTrader: (5)

lol no one answered my question about the cups =/

RETed

This question?

There are two cups.
One cup is actually built into the stock engine mount - the top one.
The bottom is loose and removable.
They are for protection mostly - heat rejection and protection from damage from accidents (chemical / liquid or "debris").



-Ted

AmviciousRav

iTrader: (5)

oh crap, sorry RETed I was referring to the transmission mounts

joe1573

iTrader: (14)

So if I got this right, you guys are gods and everyone should kiss your !@#. Well forgive me for not believing you guys can walk on water and for post my opinion on someone who considers the majority of the people on the forum to be dumb.
Last I checked this was a free forum for people who have rotary engine cars, helping each other out. My post was about the fact you think everyone is ignorant and I would never buy or deal with someone like you. I don't need to look up anything "before mouthing off another stupid reply", you guys have give me plenty of info to back my first post.
Many people and myself will keep buying parts and taking their cars to banzai because of guys like you and your god complex.
This is not my life this is a hobby. I hope you guy's one day find a life, and maybe start enjoying the hobby.
If you are ever in the Detroit area please look me up, I would really like to see if you can make me "STFU" with out your computer between us.

Black91n/a

You really can't read can you? Do you even know what it means? It simply means that you don't know something (ignorant, as in to ignore), it's not even an insult or anything really. You act as though I called you ignorant, I didn't, I simply said that most customers (certainly not all) are reasonably ignorant about their purchases. Even if one did a bunch of research they're still going to be partially ignorant, because really, other than those who designed it and built it, no-one can really know everything about the product. The people who frequent message boards such as this one are generally much more knowledgeable, but unfortunately many, many car owners don't frequent any such boards and don't necessarily do much or any research before buying something, making them ignorant about their purchases. Then there's others who simply trust their chosen shop to act in their best interests, which is dumb, because only you can really know what your best interests are. Chances are they'll push their products on you with a bias.

RETed

If that's the way you want to take things and how you interpret my posts, then so be it.
You don't listen to me anyways (see below for example), so why bother trying to convince you otherwise...


You're right, up to the point where you start to "attack" people personally.
Read the rules of the forums and in this subsection if you need to renew your memory.
Once you started to "attack" my person and not address the technical aspects of the thread, that makes you guilty.
And before you start spitting out a reply, yes, I am guilty of it too.
Which makes the both of us guilty of breaking the rules (of conduct).


I'd like to see where I said: "everyone is ignorant."
AFAIK, I have never said anything to that effect.


Yet, you can't see to leave this alone...
Give it up.


Wow, now that's a new accusation that I've never heard of...
Customers going to other vendors cause I'm a *****...
I do give you points for being creative.


See...now you're still trying to take jabs at me...
Really...I don't see it as a hobby right now.
I really call it an overblown hobby turning into an OBESSESION.
Hobby implies something part time or something you do as recreation.
I live and BREATH FC3S.
Something you don't have a clue about.
You can thank the local Mazda dealer for triggering this, cause if they wasn't too busy trying to bend me over, I would've never turned out this way.


Sure, but I have no plans on going to Detroit anytime soon.
If you ever come down to Hawaii, you can look me up too.
eThuggahs 4 life!


-Ted

jaggermouth

iTrader: (1)

I've read everything...and to be honest, I'm glad I never went to bed! Interesting **** here.

Although, I have no idea about the mounts, I know what engineers are like. My friend is getting his engineering garbage, can't stand the smug attitude from most of them. LOL but please, continue.

WingsofWar

hahah this was some good read, im glad thread didnt lock down. If you take yourself from the emotions drawn out on this thread and looked at it very objectivly, there are some great and usefull information that can be picked off. Especially with the rants!

Lets review

I am going to have to agree with some one the things said about majority of the marketed customers are ignorant. In most cases to no fault of their own, the idea is "something breaks, find the nearest, quickest, and cheapest fix". The way people create business is providing those options. Consumers, you are not at fault if you are not always aware of what you buy, its just the way society has programed you to think unfortunatly. Dont read into it.

Many people chose to be ignorant, because people would rather not have to spend time to aquire experience or knowledge when all they want to do is get it going. Its not nessesarily bad, because there are individuals like black91n/a and RETed who do have very good input, which may steer us away from a potentially bad situations. Regardless of how they sound or come off, they can still be held credible.

Unfortunatly, its sad to see a rep. of Banzai in this situation. Honestly I do believe you could have handled the situation better. But hey we cant win them all. Banzai Products are not at all garbage, but at the same time not superior. This being said from marketing and sales comparison standpoint.

As far as the information on mounts, regardless of who makes them can be found very quickly in this thread. Some information that most people would not really care about. Some personal experiences. Maybe some jargon that has yet to be understood by people of less calibur. All in all, who ever reads this thread, theres no real reason to jump in and sound like a complete ***. Unless you really do have something of value to share. Then by all means rant away.

End Review

-Josh