Malefoda

Hi there,

my aim:
replace the dead bushings and mounts on my TII. I use to replace an OEM part for a perfomance one (often cheaper), said to sport range more than track as the car is a weekend car, both street and track fun.

The price is really a factor, I can't see the difference between both but the BR ones are red and do not feature the cup. Wich one? And sourcing all that is a bit tricky, rx7store has only engine... Mazdatrix is not the cheapest in town, then have to check shipping to our remote country (no no France is not an island, is a matter of RE it's worst than being on an island...).

I'll go for PU suspension everywhere (Suspension Technic?) but the A arms with Mazdaspeed's bushing (@Mazdatrix) if people think it's a ggod way to go not to stress too much the chassis (or it's stupid and it should be used with OEM bushings to help steering response?).

If any JDM brand offers some/all of these products I may ask there also.

Thanks!
Matthieu

Black91n/a

The Banzai mounts are likely stiffer and will transmit more vibrations as there's a solid link between the engine and chassis through that bolt that goes all the way through the mount. Mounts of this type have been known to snap that bolt. This isn't exactly the best way to design a mount, and the Mazda Comp ones are better in that there's no solid link between the engine and chassis because they use studs bonded into the mounts.

I don't think the cups should really be an issue, as you should be able to use them on both mounts, but if the bolt breaks and falls out on the Banzai ones, they might not stop the engine from moving around like they're designed to do, potentially causing issues.

Malefoda

Ok Black91n/a,

I've looked at the BR ones, and yes the bolt design is quite scaring...
About the suspension bushing, any step between Susp Tech full PU kit and OEM marshmallow bushings?

Thanks.
Matthieu

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

The only times a bolt has broken on our mounts have been due to installation error. For example 4 years ago someone decided it would be a good idea to intall our motor mounts without any trans mounts at all and go to the track, this resulted in broken bolts.

Mazdacomp mounts are the exact same design as stock, we have ripped brand new ones into pieces in as little as three runs down the track.

Ours mounts properly installed do not fail. Even if you were to break a bolt, you can get a replacement at any hardware store, instead of needing a whole new mount.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

End to end, what is the height of your mounts, not including the bolt?

Whizbang

The Mazda competition ones tend to be cheaper if you can get Mazdasseed parts.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Exactly the same as stock including the bottom "cup", so that can be pitched as well.

Black91n/a

That is an astronomically stupid idea. The cups are there to stop the engine from moving around should the mounts break, if you toss them, and you break a mount, the engine will be free to move around, potentially making a small, cheap repair into a big, expensive one.

I do believe that there's some Mazda Comp bushings available, but poly ones really aren't bad at all in my experience.

siguy2k

iTrader: (3)

I think he meant "pitched" as in "sale pitch". If not then i dont know why you would get rid of the cups either.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

If you don't mind close to solid (Delrin) then mmr-direct is a good source.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Poly mounts do not break. The bottom cup is not needed, just like every other Poly, aluminum or whatever material , aftermarket mount on the market today. Additionally the cup is there as a dampner for the amount of flex allowed by the stock/mazda comp mounts not for any type of safety feature. It is only a few millimetter from the top cup, this is why so many people are driving around on broken stock mounts and don't know it.

What I have found is that in all these debates there is always an "engineering student" that thinks they can prove that a design we have been selling for 5 years is bad. Inevitably they are proven to be "astronomically stupid".

siguy2k

iTrader: (3)

I wasnt ******* your mounts at all. Thats just how i understand "pitched".

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I have an NA and love the Mazdacomp mounts. They are noticeably stiffer than stock but don't transmit too much noise, etc. If you have a decently modified TII, though, it is probably worth while to get the BR mounts for the extra stiffness.

AmviciousRav

iTrader: (5)

ah what's the cup you speak of?

Black91n/a

I'm not a student, I'm an engineer now. The fact is there's no good reason to get rid of the cups, even if they're never needed, what are you loosing by keeping them, 1lb of extra weight? That 1lb is in exchange for some security knowing that if on some off chance that the mounts do fail that you shouldn't have as much damage as a result. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Anyone with basic reading comprehension skills can see that I was saying that the idea of getting rid of the cups is stupid, not the mount.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Wrong again as usual. The bottom cup is not needed at all when installing any aftermarket mount. Since the top metal "cup" is gone, the bottom cup serves no purpose what so ever.

Malefoda

I did not inteded to start a new war here... Banzai guy, is your bushing more hard than Mazda Comp ones?

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Yes, they are 90 durometer polyurethane.

RETed

Wow, that's a convenient reason...
I know of one guy locally who has broken the bolts on your engine mounts.


That's right.
The MazdaComp ones are designed like stock - they are isolate both in tension AND compression.
I dunno what "three runs" are, but very high power and / or very extreme situations will break the MazdaComp engine mounts - no one claimed they are indestructable.


Wow, I like your marketing technique...
"Get replacement parts from your local hardware store!"
Sure, if that is your sales pitch, then I can see how yours are"superior"...
The PU "block" will almost never fail, cause all it see is compression loads.
The bolt takes all the tension loads.
If the bolt breaks - and it will - get a 99-replacement from the hardware store!

I like your jab at "engineering students"...
It's like implying your lower education is better than someone who went to college - GMAB.
All it takes is a little bit of intelligence and common sense to figure everything out.
Engine mounts are designed for ISOLATION.
Stock type engine mounts are designed for tension and compression isolation.
Yours are not.
This fact you cannot deny.

I've never broken my MazdaComp engine mounts.
I've done really stupid things with the car, including violent wheel hop.
The engine mounts are still intact.
Now, I probably have the suspicion that we're talking about power level way beyond what a normally stock FC turbo would do...
In that case, isn't it prudent to claim that the environment is outside of the normal working paraments of what the MazdaComp engine mounts was designed to deal with?

To call the MazdaComp engine mounts "junk" cause the failed on a 400+ hp 13BT is just dumb...
You're making just about 3 time more power than what a stock 13BT would do.
You think the engine mounts was designed with a 3x load factor???
Even airplanes are not design like that...


-Ted

Malefoda

It is like it is but I take Ted's advices and experience as Truth and FC3S Pro my start to any choice.
I'll go for Mazda Comp engine & trans mounts.

If you mind Ted, maybe you have an idea hos to go for a "not as soft as OEM" and "not as hard as Delrin" as I want to be kind with a street but sport chassis.
I've seen front A-arms Mazda comp bushings, but only front, is it wise to mix that with popular Energy Suspension PU bushings?

Matthieu

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

I knew it would only be a matter of time before the other internet arm chair engineer would chime in.

Ironically I have never broken one of the bolts on the mounts in either my FD or 13b-re Vert. I have however destroyed the stock mounts in both cars, with far less power than I currently have in either.

Are you implying that I have a lower education level? This would be a huge mistake on your part considering I graduated in 1992 with a ME degree.

Never said Mazda Comp were junk, I said they are the same design as stock and just about as easy to break with any real HP. You are the only one to call them "junk".

OP-you can buy whatever mounts you like, I am not here to convince you. Just defending a great product that is in use by many happy customers.

Black91n/a

I also find that very troubling, since it implies that they're using cheap hardware. Since the engine's only really held in by 2 bolts, you'd better make sure they're of the highest quality, grade 10.9 or better (or grade 8 if you're using inch sizes).

Yes, because it's impossible to re-use the top cup.



You have a problem, you seem incapable of taking criticism, practically attacking anyone who doesn't praise your products and you make claims with absolutely no proof and without any good evidence to back up those claims (see below for an example). Not the sort of company I'd want to deal with.

RETed

Yeah, and to label me as such is a serious underestimation on your part.
We've been messing around with FC's longer than you have, and I think K2RD was developing stuff before you have also.
We race test our **** before releasing them for general consumption and haven't had customers complaints anything like this.


Ironically, you mentioned two applications which have different engine mount designs versus a stock FC 13B...


No, I never implied anything.
I was commenting on your words.
It's funny that you slam these "engineering students" when you were one yourself...


The implication is that your engine mounts are superior.
If they weren't, how could you market them?
Why would you try and sell something is inferior than the stock or MazdaComp engine mounts?
You seem to like blasting how crappy the stock and MazdaComp engine mounts are, but you deny implying they are inferior?
Odd...

I have a real easy option on making any of the stock type engine mounts works...it's called an engine (torque) brace.
Having the rocking engine forces dissipate into one more more additional braces other than through the two existing engine mounts puts less stress on the them.
You did learn this in your ME classes, right?


This is why there are some of us retorting why they are not that great of a product and not all customers who have bought them are happy...
You're smoking crack if you think you have just designed the "perfect mousetrap".


-Ted

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Neither of you can read very well can you?

"They are manufactured from 90A durometer red polyurethane, with 3mm E-Coated steel end-caps. All hardware included in kit is grade-8"

Funny the only 2 people in this thread that have criticized the product have never used it themselves, making you both useless candidates for opinions.

Ted- you are just spewing the same crap you always have about these mounts, ever since they were released. Lucky for you there is a high turn over on this forum which allows for you to just keep repeating yourself and bumping up your post count.

As for the "engineering students" comment that was directed at one in particular that likes to try to bash Banzai products, but has yet to be successful.

If you like I can multi-quote and pick apart every statement you both make, but I think it is more fun to watch you both fill the pages.

BTW thank you both for all the free marketing, we have sold 10 set of FC mounts since yesterday, keep up the good work.

RETed

It's nice how you can twist everything around so that you come out smelling like a rose...
You're well suited to being a saleman.

I really don't give a **** who buys your stuff.
I'm not stupid to think that I can persuade all of the people where to spend their money.
If I did, I'd be rich beyond belief.
If you're going to credit (blame?) me for giving you sales, why don't you give me a cut of the profits?
(I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.)
The only thing that matters to me is that *I* will *NEVER* buy who of your products.
You can take that one to the bank.

Most customers are ignorant.
They don't know how products are supposed to work.
Look at all the snake-oil crap that is out there?
It's the customers who have a little bit of knowledge that you need to work hard to persuade to buy your ****.

BTW, if we ran your engine mounts on our 20B, it would've melted.
We ran a set of UHMW "plastic" engine mounts that the owner bought somewhere, and they melted.
Sure, we were running a bare exhaust manifold pretty darn close to the passenger side engine mount with no cups.
Those cups do have another purpose (especially on the passenger side) - heat rejection.
Of course, you can turn around and blame us for the failure...
Bottom line is that your mounts wouldn't have fared any better than what we were using in the first place.

(Waiting for the thread lock...)


-Ted