TII Swap..N/A EM Harness or TII E/M harness?
12-17-08, 07:58 PM
#1
Retired Moderator, RIP
Thread Starter
iTrader: (142)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 0
Received 131 Likes
on
114 Posts
TII Swap..N/A EM Harness or TII E/M harness?
I need some "help".(no not Medication!),as I thought this Swap was just Plug and play.(use a TII engine harness when swapping and Done!..NOPE!)
I need some Guidance on whether I should use an N/A engine harness on a TII swap..OR,use a TII engine harness when I swap engines.
The Reason I am posting is that I am being informed that the N/A harness will be easier to Make up and place on the engine.
I need Specific Wiring Info,Not "ya.I think..I did it..".
.My Car is an 1986 N/A with the Resistor Pack On the Car.
My TII Engine will be run by a RTEK,N333 Ecu,and 720's.
I would like info on the using the Resistor Pack IF using the N/A harness.(I would like to have the option of changing Injector Impedance by using a Spliced Resistor box or a Unhacked Resistor Box).
IF I use the N/A harness do I need to do anything about the Fuel pump wiring.
If I use the TII harness on the Car,which wires do I have to Attend to?..Fuel pump?..
So,That is a Start....H-A-I-L-#-#-#!!(Rhymes with BAILERS!)..I could really use your input on this.I started this Thread in the RTEK Forum,as a Impedance question,But I have that Info now,so,Now it is a Harness question.
Thanks Gentlemen..Sincerely Dave/STYX!~
I need some Guidance on whether I should use an N/A engine harness on a TII swap..OR,use a TII engine harness when I swap engines.
The Reason I am posting is that I am being informed that the N/A harness will be easier to Make up and place on the engine.
I need Specific Wiring Info,Not "ya.I think..I did it..".
.My Car is an 1986 N/A with the Resistor Pack On the Car.
My TII Engine will be run by a RTEK,N333 Ecu,and 720's.
I would like info on the using the Resistor Pack IF using the N/A harness.(I would like to have the option of changing Injector Impedance by using a Spliced Resistor box or a Unhacked Resistor Box).
IF I use the N/A harness do I need to do anything about the Fuel pump wiring.
If I use the TII harness on the Car,which wires do I have to Attend to?..Fuel pump?..
So,That is a Start....H-A-I-L-#-#-#!!(Rhymes with BAILERS!)..I could really use your input on this.I started this Thread in the RTEK Forum,as a Impedance question,But I have that Info now,so,Now it is a Harness question.
Thanks Gentlemen..Sincerely Dave/STYX!~
12-17-08, 08:39 PM
#3
That's kind of a scatter-brained question, but I'll do my best to help answer.
We first need to the impedance of the 720's. If they're low impedance, then use the TII harness and resistor pack. The TII harness fits soooo much better on the TII than the N/A harness does, trust me, I'm doing that right now too. If you have high impedance, follow the schematic and bypass the resistor block. Remember, if you short around the resistors, you can always remove the short and return the low-impedance injectors to service.
Here's some searched stuff I've found:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=N338+TII
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...42#post8795742
and something a little irrelevant to your situation, but good to know for me!
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=N338+TII
Have fun fighting that TII swap. It's not as in/out as it looked.
We first need to the impedance of the 720's. If they're low impedance, then use the TII harness and resistor pack. The TII harness fits soooo much better on the TII than the N/A harness does, trust me, I'm doing that right now too. If you have high impedance, follow the schematic and bypass the resistor block. Remember, if you short around the resistors, you can always remove the short and return the low-impedance injectors to service.
Here's some searched stuff I've found:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=N338+TII
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...42#post8795742
and something a little irrelevant to your situation, but good to know for me!
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=N338+TII
Have fun fighting that TII swap. It's not as in/out as it looked.
12-17-08, 09:04 PM
#4
Retired Moderator, RIP
Thread Starter
iTrader: (142)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 0
Received 131 Likes
on
114 Posts
Well..I've been Called Worse..so ScatterBrained it is,,For Today!
Anyways..Ya.I know that the TII harness will Fit,as it should,it is made for the engine.
The N/A harness though has the Resistor pack at the Front,and is in Series with the Injectors.SO really IF I want,I can just "bypass it" if I use HI injectors or Use it If I want Low injectors.
The Ecu wants to See Hi impedance regardless.
I was told though,That certain wires must be Cut,Depinned,ETC,if the the TII harness was used,as the Alternator wiring,For one,isn't in the TII harness.
SO,let's make this EASY..I'll use the N/A Harness.It's on the Car...Which wires need to be attended to?..
This Way I can either Splice the resistor Box or Run the darn thing.(that takes care if the injector problem).
Anyways..Ya.I know that the TII harness will Fit,as it should,it is made for the engine.
The N/A harness though has the Resistor pack at the Front,and is in Series with the Injectors.SO really IF I want,I can just "bypass it" if I use HI injectors or Use it If I want Low injectors.
The Ecu wants to See Hi impedance regardless.
I was told though,That certain wires must be Cut,Depinned,ETC,if the the TII harness was used,as the Alternator wiring,For one,isn't in the TII harness.
SO,let's make this EASY..I'll use the N/A Harness.It's on the Car...Which wires need to be attended to?..
This Way I can either Splice the resistor Box or Run the darn thing.(that takes care if the injector problem).
12-18-08, 02:58 AM
#5
Wait wait wait there guy... s4 or s5 engine...
If s4 just use the n/a harness. You gotta run the knock box + wire to the knock sensor. Have the boost sensor and afm? I assume you do.
You also have to do a bit of rewiring for this to work in the 87-88 cars (in the 89-91's it is a basic plug and play).
You have to run 2 wires from the back of the alternator inside the cabin by the ecu. Compare your old NA wiring harness and trace the wires that used to be at the alternator back to the plug they ended at (one of the 2 large orange ones inside the car). These are black and white wires. Now compare these pin positions with the current harness. Cut (or remove and re-pin) whatever wires are presently there (theyre not doing anything important) and splice in your 2 newly run wires. Be sure to cut and insulate those old wires, so you're not backfeeding through some other circuit. This keeps all your idiot lights from staying on all the time (this is normally an indication of a failed alternator, and the car thinks it has failed because the wiring was missing).
You also have to run 1 wire about 6 inches. On your old NA harness, find the yellow/red temp sensor wire that went under the oil filter. Now find it's pinout position on the orange plug that was inside the car. Compare this to the turbo harness' plug. Now trace the same wire on the turbo harness in the car. Cut or re-pin that wire on the *engine side* of the turbo harness, and jumper it over to the wire that is in the pin position the old NA harness had the wire at. Be sure to cut this old wire and insulate it to prevent backfeeding through that circuit. Now your dash temperature gauge will work like stock.
From rotaryresurrection.com For the wiring. If you have s4 engine as stated above. Just plug and play the injectors. Since they are low imp anyways why not just keep the resistor box in there... That is all...
Bud.
If s4 just use the n/a harness. You gotta run the knock box + wire to the knock sensor. Have the boost sensor and afm? I assume you do.
You also have to do a bit of rewiring for this to work in the 87-88 cars (in the 89-91's it is a basic plug and play).
You have to run 2 wires from the back of the alternator inside the cabin by the ecu. Compare your old NA wiring harness and trace the wires that used to be at the alternator back to the plug they ended at (one of the 2 large orange ones inside the car). These are black and white wires. Now compare these pin positions with the current harness. Cut (or remove and re-pin) whatever wires are presently there (theyre not doing anything important) and splice in your 2 newly run wires. Be sure to cut and insulate those old wires, so you're not backfeeding through some other circuit. This keeps all your idiot lights from staying on all the time (this is normally an indication of a failed alternator, and the car thinks it has failed because the wiring was missing).
You also have to run 1 wire about 6 inches. On your old NA harness, find the yellow/red temp sensor wire that went under the oil filter. Now find it's pinout position on the orange plug that was inside the car. Compare this to the turbo harness' plug. Now trace the same wire on the turbo harness in the car. Cut or re-pin that wire on the *engine side* of the turbo harness, and jumper it over to the wire that is in the pin position the old NA harness had the wire at. Be sure to cut this old wire and insulate it to prevent backfeeding through that circuit. Now your dash temperature gauge will work like stock.
From rotaryresurrection.com For the wiring. If you have s4 engine as stated above. Just plug and play the injectors. Since they are low imp anyways why not just keep the resistor box in there... That is all...
Bud.
12-18-08, 08:34 AM
#6
Sit and Spin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Latrobe, Pa
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What???
If you have an S4, it is really simple!
First, don't worry about the knock box. It doesn't work anyway. Hailers himself has stated that it is not worth the trouble.
Next, extend your TPS wires so that they reach the plug. (about 1 foot).
If you have manual steering, you have to do nothing. If you have power steering, check the difference in the pin 1R from the turbo to the NA Depin it if you are running power steering.
Finally, are you planning on running the twin scroll? If not, you don't have to do anything.
I am going to verify some info, and get back to this thread.
If you have an S4, it is really simple!
First, don't worry about the knock box. It doesn't work anyway. Hailers himself has stated that it is not worth the trouble.
Next, extend your TPS wires so that they reach the plug. (about 1 foot).
If you have manual steering, you have to do nothing. If you have power steering, check the difference in the pin 1R from the turbo to the NA Depin it if you are running power steering.
Finally, are you planning on running the twin scroll? If not, you don't have to do anything.
I am going to verify some info, and get back to this thread.
Last edited by wvumtnbkr; 12-18-08 at 08:43 AM.
12-18-08, 08:40 AM
#7
Sit and Spin
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Latrobe, Pa
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a cut and paste from one of HAILERS posts on the subject:
Plug and play on the whole.
The only pins that are different are 3D, 2K, 1R.
3D is a ground signal output on a TURBO ECU to the Fuel PUmp REsistor Relay to make the TURBO fuel pump voltage rise/drop. Your non turbo car has no Fuel Pump REsistor Relay so forget this wire all together. ON a non turbo its used on AUTOMATIC transmission cars. So like I say, forget about it.
2K goes to the Split Air solenoid on a non turbo. Its on the ACV. But on a Turbo it goes to the twin scroll solenoid on the engine. You've two things you can do. One is to run the wire from the Split Air solenoid to the Twin Scroll Solenoid on the other side of the engine. Or since you know the twin scroll actuator is spring loaded fully open when there is no vacuum going to its actuator, you could just forget about this pin/wire. Personally, I ran the wire from the split air solenoid to the Twin Scroll Solenoid and it works.
Pin 1R on a non turbo harness goes to a power steering switch. On a turbo it goes to Knock sensor. I ran without a knock sensor for a year or so and then installed a knock box and wired it up. Personally I have no faith the knock box etc is worth a hoot. I'd ignore pin 1R. IF you have power steering I'd depin that wire at 1R. I don't have pwr steering and have an opinion about pwr steering. If I did have pwr steering, I could have made a workaround.
In other words little to nothing has to be done to make it work.
Installing a turbo EMISSIONS harness in a non turbo would be foolish in my opinion. IF you do that, then you have to deal with two other plugs on the emissions harness that in turn connect to the FRONT harness plus you would have to deal with the loss of the alternator plug that is on your na harness but is not on the turbo emissions harness. You'd have to wire in two wires to the alternator plus you'd have to deal with a couple of other wires on the turbo harnes. See connector X-15 or X-16 in your FSM wiring diagram or if you have/had a 88 model they would be called FEM-01 or FEM-02.
You have a 87 series. So just use your non turbo harness and deal with those three pins mentioned above and I'd just forget about the knock box/sensor alltogether.
I have a 87 non turbo car with a turbo engine and a non turbo harness and it runs like a top. IF I had it to do over again, I'd not install the knock box. It seems to me I wasted some effort there. I would make the twin scroll solenoid work like I did. On the other hand others run with it non functional and they can't tell the difference in spool up time. Remember once again, the twin scroll actuator if not connected to a vacuum source, will spring open to it's full open position. So the only side effect is the turbo spooling up a touch slower than normal.
In short, this is the long version of INBROWN'S post just above....and the others.
Yes, the ECU plugs mate up just fine. Be sure to get a TURBO boost sensor. It MATTERS. Plus pickup a TURBO afm to go with it. Using a non turbo pressure sensor is a no/no. Non turbo pressure sensor does not recognize boost pressrue. Not good. Bad. Very bad.
end quote!
I hope this helps!
Plug and play on the whole.
The only pins that are different are 3D, 2K, 1R.
3D is a ground signal output on a TURBO ECU to the Fuel PUmp REsistor Relay to make the TURBO fuel pump voltage rise/drop. Your non turbo car has no Fuel Pump REsistor Relay so forget this wire all together. ON a non turbo its used on AUTOMATIC transmission cars. So like I say, forget about it.
2K goes to the Split Air solenoid on a non turbo. Its on the ACV. But on a Turbo it goes to the twin scroll solenoid on the engine. You've two things you can do. One is to run the wire from the Split Air solenoid to the Twin Scroll Solenoid on the other side of the engine. Or since you know the twin scroll actuator is spring loaded fully open when there is no vacuum going to its actuator, you could just forget about this pin/wire. Personally, I ran the wire from the split air solenoid to the Twin Scroll Solenoid and it works.
Pin 1R on a non turbo harness goes to a power steering switch. On a turbo it goes to Knock sensor. I ran without a knock sensor for a year or so and then installed a knock box and wired it up. Personally I have no faith the knock box etc is worth a hoot. I'd ignore pin 1R. IF you have power steering I'd depin that wire at 1R. I don't have pwr steering and have an opinion about pwr steering. If I did have pwr steering, I could have made a workaround.
In other words little to nothing has to be done to make it work.
Installing a turbo EMISSIONS harness in a non turbo would be foolish in my opinion. IF you do that, then you have to deal with two other plugs on the emissions harness that in turn connect to the FRONT harness plus you would have to deal with the loss of the alternator plug that is on your na harness but is not on the turbo emissions harness. You'd have to wire in two wires to the alternator plus you'd have to deal with a couple of other wires on the turbo harnes. See connector X-15 or X-16 in your FSM wiring diagram or if you have/had a 88 model they would be called FEM-01 or FEM-02.
You have a 87 series. So just use your non turbo harness and deal with those three pins mentioned above and I'd just forget about the knock box/sensor alltogether.
I have a 87 non turbo car with a turbo engine and a non turbo harness and it runs like a top. IF I had it to do over again, I'd not install the knock box. It seems to me I wasted some effort there. I would make the twin scroll solenoid work like I did. On the other hand others run with it non functional and they can't tell the difference in spool up time. Remember once again, the twin scroll actuator if not connected to a vacuum source, will spring open to it's full open position. So the only side effect is the turbo spooling up a touch slower than normal.
In short, this is the long version of INBROWN'S post just above....and the others.
Yes, the ECU plugs mate up just fine. Be sure to get a TURBO boost sensor. It MATTERS. Plus pickup a TURBO afm to go with it. Using a non turbo pressure sensor is a no/no. Non turbo pressure sensor does not recognize boost pressrue. Not good. Bad. Very bad.
end quote!
I hope this helps!
Trending Topics
12-18-08, 08:48 AM
#8
Hey Dave, didn't you have a complete TII you're getting these parts off of? If so, just pull the dash(es) and some interior and replace all the wiring. That's what my buddy did when he understeered into a high curb. You've got all winter! It'll be more labour, but less headaches (I follow wiring shematics only as a last resort). Wish you the best of luck.
Edit: I read the post above quoting Hailers and it looks like a good option, especially if you don't have a whole TII car to swap stuff from.
Edit: I read the post above quoting Hailers and it looks like a good option, especially if you don't have a whole TII car to swap stuff from.
Last edited by pfsantos; 12-18-08 at 08:53 AM.
12-18-08, 01:49 PM
#9
^so your saying that removing the dash and installing a TII cluster/interior harness is EASIER/Less headaches than changing 3 pins and extending a few wires on a NA harness?
I've rewired many harnesses and keeping the NA harness is the easier method. Using a TII harness with NA interior require move pin/wire changes
Follow the Hailer post above and you'll be fine.
I've rewired many harnesses and keeping the NA harness is the easier method. Using a TII harness with NA interior require move pin/wire changes
Follow the Hailer post above and you'll be fine.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post