kittay

iTrader: (1)

I have a S5, and was curious about chipping the stock ECU.

So I was looking to see if anyone knew the base fuel/ timing tables?

I've searched but haven't had any luck finding a base code..

Any info/ insight on this?

farberio

iTrader: (7)

You might as well get an Rtek vs Chipping the ECU. At least in my opinion.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

This is part of the lead timing map for an S4 TII. An S5 would likely be a touch more conservative.



Rteks are chipped stock ECUs.

NeCr0mStR

iTrader: (3)

I would definitely go with rtek stage 2, its not that expensive.... They install it for you and you can change almost all the settings. I am going to go that route after I get a full break in on the motor I am running. Would be interested to see how it helps with hp/torque versus what I am running without. Once I get it installed I am going to take it to a nice tune shop and get it all dynoed and tuned up.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Oh, I thought a 'chipped' ecu was more of a one shot type thing. As in, not a reprogrammable or modifiable chip.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Do you know what the units of load are? just a percentage? an airflow? an intake pressure?

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Load is measured in percent. Basically, 60-100% load would be medium to hard acceleration. At WOT, lead timing is always the most retarded value (highlighted in green). In addition to these values, the ECU also retards timing when under higher boost levels. I usually see only 0-1* pulled (10+ psi), but when making boost in the low RPM range, about 2500-3300 RPM, and in a tall gear, I've seen as much as 4* pulled when making 10+ psi. I say 10+ psi because the ECU has no additional timing corrections beyond about 9-10 psi, so by 10 timing retard will be greatest.

kittay

iTrader: (1)

Well what I'm looking at doing is using my emulator program that I already have. I can do alot of different adjustments. It basically takes place of the stock chip and does live tuning.


Here's a screenshot:


If I was to spend any money on it, it would be for the Haltech once I can also afford the 30/35r setup.

Do you know the address of the timing/ fuel map start? Do you know the address of the injector compensation?

Does anyone by chance have a spare stock or modified chip to lend out or sell me? That way I can read/ dissect it to learn from

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

go buy a power chip off ebay.

they give 50 horses!



you'd honestly be better off building a megasquirt if you are a DIYer and want to save a few bucks. messing with the stock ECU for a one off temporary deal is going to be more work than it's worth.

kittay

iTrader: (1)

I don't really think it will be. Converting the tables above to hex may be a PITA. But if I can figure out where the start address is, wouldn't be bad at all.

I do this with my other cars, so for me it's no biggy.

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

Don't mention your work about a subject like this on the board here Kittay. No one on this board understands what your talking about. They are very misinformed about ECUs and how they work and what they should cost. There was some guys doing the same thing for the rx7 ecus that hondata is and were going to keep it free. Almost everyone that posted a response ws unhelpful and said things like "why don't you just buy a ________ its not that expensive"

I don't think they understand how cheap you could have a fully controllable factory ecu for after all the works done. When I read that post I thought here we go again.

The rtek is sorta like what this guy is talking about but he's not talking about using a blind tune like all of you guys think. Perhaps the rotary community is not ready for anything cheap and useful. They like to buy $1200 standalones that just do the same thing as a stock ecu could do.

I don't have any rom or hex files other than n/a ones from an s4 currently. I've been sort of working on this same problem I just don't have a lot of programming experience. pm if you want these guys are just going to tell you your wasting your time.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

I have my doubts about what your referring to, but Great Idea!

I have an RTEK 2.1 ecu and it seems to do what I've asked of it so far, some quirks but still for me it was way easier installing it, as you just plug it in and use a Palm pilot to program/tune it. Done.

I have a stocker chip I can send you, PM me...

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Hondata works over the OBD-II port, you can't do that on a FC. Which is why Rtek uses a palm to communicate with whatever micro they use.

You can only go so far with the stock ECU on the FC because you get limited information. At least on a newer car with OBD-II you have access to a whole lot more information.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Hondata for D and B series engines do not work over an OBD II port, only K pro (RSX K series engines) does that. You have to do an OBD I conversion for any 96-2000 Honda. I love the Hondata S300 though. It has many of the features of a Haltech with the ease of installation of a Power FC, all while costing way less than both and looking much slicker.

The problem with using TunerPro and a lot of those Hex editor style programs is that you need a rom burner, and preferably a ROM emulator for live tuning. You're already at half the cost of an Rtek 2.1 there, and then there is all the time and trouble of chasing down hex addresses and interpreting the units in a usable form. You don't even get the datalogging capabilities of the Rtek when you go that route, especially with running analog inputs into ECU. If you want a basic chipped ECU (besides Rtek), just get a Knightsports used and cross your fingers.

Remember also that the Hex addresses could change slightly between model numbers. You are ultimately reinventing the wheel when a company has done all the work for you, and actually installs a daughterboard (I think they install one at least) to enhance the capabilities of the ECU.

If you ever look at stuff like ECUflash and Tuner Pro, they can be pretty clunky compared to the more professional interfaces of Crome, Hondata, and the Rtek. Hex addresses are a pain, and sort of a necessary evil for certain platforms. Bigger modern platforms like Subaru WRX's have programs like AccessTuner that have a much more integrated front end.

Tune enough cars and you will realize that a good professional tuning interface (integrated with live datalogging) is very important, and that need has already been met at a reasonable price. Why hassle with hex editors and ROM emulators then, unless it is just a fun personal project? You get what you pay for. If you want a professional interface with years of development, you get the Rtek and be done with it. If you want more of a DIY deal that's less professional looking, less integrated, and has no hardware extensions, then use a ROM burner and mess with it yourself.

kittay

iTrader: (1)

I've been tuning dsms for 4 years now. My DD is a 12.2 @113 on a 16g turbo (one step up from the stock turbo). My weekend car is 12.5@117 with seizing the driveshaft and completely locked out of 2nd gear. I did all this on my emulator program and TunerPro. I honestly love the TunerPro and my speed density programs. They may be clunky to you, but has all the functions I need.

And also I already have 3 emulators, so that's not a big deal, as well as a chip burner So to me this would be an awesome personal project! But I agree with you skidtron!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

well it makes more financial sense for you--you have the hardware and the basic knowledge. But you have to remember with an Rx-7 that you have things than a DSM, like staged injection which gets tricky. Read up on the Rtek more. They changed the injector staging algorithm completely to eliminate hesitations under certain conditions. They are doing a boost-based correction over the factory AFM based fuel and timing maps. They are converting certain inputs and outputs from the ECU to be loggable or switchable respectively.

kittay

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info. I'll have to read up on that!

2slow4stock

iTrader: (18)

If you ever used hondadata, you have been spoiled. Espically the s300 It is so easy to tune, its ridiculous.

I'm not a fan of chips + emulators since since there's some things you can't do that a real stand a lone can. But for a street car, it should be good enough. Tuning is not for everyone though.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

That, frankly, is a load of bullocks.

Considering that the designers of the RTek chips are on this board, as are the authors of MSI/extra and MS2/extra, it's flat out untrue.

Speaking from my own experience, I would never recommend someone put the time and energy into creating maps for the stock ECU due to the following:

1. It will always be significantly more limited then the most inexpensive standalone
2. AFM
3. Crusty, broken and proprietary 20+ year old wiring harness
4. Known problems like hypersensitivity to certain grounding issues, flooding and secondary stage lean point

The fundamental point of that statement is that it is cheap to have a fully controllable factory ECU and it is also the most significant problem with that statement.

Sure, for slightly more power then stock, a chipped factory ECU is a fine way to go. But the original poster alluded to a GT35. That is not a slight power upgrade.

Have you ever used a standalone?

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

Aaron cake, Sorry I didn't individually quote each statement

I'm not talking about the rtek or megasquirt guys when I make the statement about people being uninformed. I'm talking about all the people that respond with wow thats cool and hey thats a waste of time. If this person wants to write themselves a program for thier stock ecu then the answers should be yes I have info for you or sorry I don't know anything about it. Not your stupid don't even try it statements which is basically whats is being said.

BTW in my opinon rtek would be a thousand times more useful if you could program it with a laptop. Megasquirt is fine but how will I control my oil metering pump? I am not conviced as why I should get rid of it. It works fine. Is there a way to control the trailing ignition yet? I'm honestly asking because I haven't checked yet.

I understand the problems associated with the factory ecu I've fixed a couple hardware issues on them myself. There is no need to tell me about that although if your statement about them helps someone else whos reading this post then that is good because there is many problems with them.

I'm not sure how to answer your fundamental problem statement because I'm trying not to get in an arguement with you about all this. Your right and wrong in my opinion. At first the cost to modify a prototype ecu would be expensive. Buying things, trying them, reprograming, buying more stuff, trying more things, development time, bla, bla bla. In the end if the software someone builds is free and user friendly and it only requires a small amount of components to be added to the board(s) it can be VERY cheap. Like $80-100 for a do what you want with it factory ECU. Surely you've seen a hondata S100 before. Its so simple but allows so many things to be changed on the factory ECU its ridiculous. It costs almost nothing to replicate the way it works hence the reason for chrome, uberdata, etc.

The GT35 thing I didn't see to be honest but additional space in the fuel and timing maps if needed could be added with hardware changes. injector sizing look up tables and other things could be done. You could put that on a civic with hondata S100 even with not much effort or problems.

Yes I've used standalones. They can be great tools or terrible in the wrong hands. Here's what I think of some of the popular ones. First off is the power FC (junk) and eveyones gonna hate me but thats fine because it is the most worthless one out of all of them if you ask me. using the handheld thing is tedious and stupid. Maybe now you can use a laptop I don't know haven't looked at one in like 2years. AEM (expensive)is probably the best overall because it's easy to get info about or at least it seems to always be for me whenever a question would arise about what to do about a certain item. Haltech (expensive)is ok not great not terrible everyone uses one and swears its the best thing in the world. I think its way overpriced for what it is. Microtech overpriced and nothing special (Haven't used it but I've read all about it). Rtek (well priced) halfway decent product as far as funcionallity vs price goes. the lack of a laptop drives me nuts. I finally found someone who has it near me and played with it for a second and only being able to see a few cells at a time is terrible just like the power fc.
I'll admit most of my tuning experience is on Hondata and MAP ECU(A piggyback that deletes AFM and does some other cool stuff. made in NZ) Hondata is the best thing out there for any car hands down. Ya it has a couple flaws but for 95%+ honda owners its all you will ever need. Its also reasonably priced and doesn't require much modification to the car or cars hardware. Map ecu is fun to play with very simple and we've tuned a 10 second 94 supra on it. Not that a 10 sec supra isn't dime a dozen but its just a $400 ecu and a set of injectors. A 478whp GSX eclipse tuned on it with alcohol and n20 same one the $400 they also offer a $700 one that does a lot more. Using the timing tables on that one is a bit scary though since its hard to figure out where your starting at. (remembere its a piggyback so you're not changing the real timing table on it just doing corrections to the timing map. I don't know how many cars I've helped with or did the tuning on its plenty to know something about this topic though. I appreciate your concern about people answering questions on this forum that don't know what they are talking about though. I get upset about the same thing.

The above statements about ecus is my opinion and in no way should anyone base their decision on what I've said here as it would take 20 pages of text to describe exactly why I feel the way I do about each one. I also don't like taking business from anyone so buy what you will and do what you want.

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

NO IT DOESN'T!!! Your misinformed or just wrong however you would like to take my statement.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

I am not an expert in Hondata, but I can read their website.

http://www.hondata.com/flashpro.html

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Of course I don't mean to imply that Hondata ONLY makes things for OBDII, but the only one I glanced at used OBDII.

As stated above there was an earlier version of Hondata that used something else to communicate. I haven't looked into that.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Hondata is absurd value for the money. It can basically do everything that most people would want to do with a standalone but costs way less. And since it is a heavily modified factory ECU it retains the closed loop correction and fuel learning (long and short term fuel trim) that you can't easily configure on most standalones. And Honda factory harnesses are high quality and aren't exposed to the heat that the Rx-7's are. The fact that most Hondas are speed density eliminates any AFM issues on that platform, it's just the whole wrong wheel drive thing holding you back. The interface is soooo easy to use and the instructions and support are excellent.

Rtek 2.1 is moving in the direction of Hondata's capabilities, and AFM delete would go a long way. Some people love the Palm interface, some think it's clunky. I prefer laptops.