Taurus efan manual switch causing electrical problems
08-30-13, 11:41 PM
#26
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have you tried taking the relay right out of the equation and wiring the positive of the fan to a switch?
neg to fan..positive from fan to switch,switch to battery.
Start up,hit the switch and then it turns the fan on.
REMEMBER: the fan will keep running when the car is shut off,so you have to turn it off by the switch,and it is best to Start the car THEN turn the fan on so it doesn't draw excess amperage..(YOU HAVE TO remember to turn the fan ON,before you DRIVE though...big BOOBOO if you don't!)
This will tell you if your wiring is not right...and whether it it IS the fan that is giving you trouble as all the other junk is now out of the road.
neg to fan..positive from fan to switch,switch to battery.
Start up,hit the switch and then it turns the fan on.
REMEMBER: the fan will keep running when the car is shut off,so you have to turn it off by the switch,and it is best to Start the car THEN turn the fan on so it doesn't draw excess amperage..(YOU HAVE TO remember to turn the fan ON,before you DRIVE though...big BOOBOO if you don't!)
This will tell you if your wiring is not right...and whether it it IS the fan that is giving you trouble as all the other junk is now out of the road.
08-31-13, 01:12 PM
#27
Well, I finally did more testing this morning. The whole system was showing lower volts all across the board from the last time I tested it.. The OEM volt meter was showing lower volts as was the DMM. Even with RPMs at 3000 it wasn't getting to 14v. Just a couple days ago doing the exact same test I was seeing 14.5v. I tested voltage at the alternator per the FSM. Test #3 on pg. G-8. I had different readings depending on where I grounded the DMM.
Test 3 RPMs at 2000
Grounded on the alternator casing - 12.5v
Grounded at the battery (-) - 12.9v
Both (+) and (-) of the DMM on battery terminals - 13.7v (what Satch said about their being .5-1v difference between battery and alternator was just about dead on, but what I don't understand is that I'd think if there would be a difference here it would be more volts at the alternator than at the battery with the loss being due to wiring)
When I'd toggle the fan on voltage on all tests would drop by right around .2v. Or actually when high setting kicked on it would drop significantly with the amp spike of the fan, but then level out at .2v below what it was before the fan turned on.
Test 4 also on pg G-8
Voltage at alternator 11.87v
Voltage at the battery 11.96v
Test 4 description reads that if voltage at the alternator is lower than voltage at the battery then the harness is the problem. Is .09v a reason for concern?
Test 3 RPMs at 2000
Grounded on the alternator casing - 12.5v
Grounded at the battery (-) - 12.9v
Both (+) and (-) of the DMM on battery terminals - 13.7v (what Satch said about their being .5-1v difference between battery and alternator was just about dead on, but what I don't understand is that I'd think if there would be a difference here it would be more volts at the alternator than at the battery with the loss being due to wiring)
When I'd toggle the fan on voltage on all tests would drop by right around .2v. Or actually when high setting kicked on it would drop significantly with the amp spike of the fan, but then level out at .2v below what it was before the fan turned on.
Test 4 also on pg G-8
Voltage at alternator 11.87v
Voltage at the battery 11.96v
Test 4 description reads that if voltage at the alternator is lower than voltage at the battery then the harness is the problem. Is .09v a reason for concern?
08-31-13, 01:18 PM
#28
have you tried taking the relay right out of the equation and wiring the positive of the fan to a switch?
neg to fan..positive from fan to switch,switch to battery.
Start up,hit the switch and then it turns the fan on.
REMEMBER: the fan will keep running when the car is shut off,so you have to turn it off by the switch,and it is best to Start the car THEN turn the fan on so it doesn't draw excess amperage..(YOU HAVE TO remember to turn the fan ON,before you DRIVE though...big BOOBOO if you don't!)
This will tell you if your wiring is not right...and whether it it IS the fan that is giving you trouble as all the other junk is now out of the road.
neg to fan..positive from fan to switch,switch to battery.
Start up,hit the switch and then it turns the fan on.
REMEMBER: the fan will keep running when the car is shut off,so you have to turn it off by the switch,and it is best to Start the car THEN turn the fan on so it doesn't draw excess amperage..(YOU HAVE TO remember to turn the fan ON,before you DRIVE though...big BOOBOO if you don't!)
This will tell you if your wiring is not right...and whether it it IS the fan that is giving you trouble as all the other junk is now out of the road.
09-01-13, 08:49 PM
#31
Yeah, my father keeps up on local news more than I do. Met him for dinner and his description was that the guy apparently died the day before and no one could find him. The junkyard knew that one person that came in didn't sign out when they left. They searched the yard at closing and didn't find him. I guess assuming that he left without signing out and simply hadn't returned home. It was the next day that he was found under a car. Pretty horrible and sad way to go!
10-27-13, 12:31 PM
#32
I've gotten a taurus alt but have been too busy between work and classes to do anything with the car. Before I make a bracket for the taurus alt and do all the other changes necessary to make it fit under the TMIC and behind my InfiniIV strut bar I decided to take the car to a friend shop and let him go over the charging system. I'd hate to make all these changes and find that my problem is the wiring not the components.
But now the engine won't turn over, I don't even get a sputter of it trying to turn over. I've jumpered the pump and get fuel. I do not see spark with plug wires off the plugs on either trailing or leading. I checked my fuses and they are all good. I've started reading about checking the coils. I've tested the engine side of the leading coil connector. I've put DMM (+) on black and yellow with (-) on the second connector (can't remember the color). When I do that I see just under 5v. When I ground the DMM to the battery and (+) on B/Y I see nearly 12v. I need to do more reading and teach myself how to test ignition though.
But now the engine won't turn over, I don't even get a sputter of it trying to turn over. I've jumpered the pump and get fuel. I do not see spark with plug wires off the plugs on either trailing or leading. I checked my fuses and they are all good. I've started reading about checking the coils. I've tested the engine side of the leading coil connector. I've put DMM (+) on black and yellow with (-) on the second connector (can't remember the color). When I do that I see just under 5v. When I ground the DMM to the battery and (+) on B/Y I see nearly 12v. I need to do more reading and teach myself how to test ignition though.
10-27-13, 03:58 PM
#33
W/key to on test the Brown/White wire at the Boost Sensor and it should read 5 volts so see what reading you get. To test the B/Y wires at the coils all you would need to do is place the Red meter lead to the B/Y wire and the other meter lead to a sufficient ground such as the negative battery terminal as you don't use another coil wire.
10-27-13, 06:08 PM
#34
W/key to on test the Brown/White wire at the Boost Sensor and it should read 5 volts so see what reading you get. To test the B/Y wires at the coils all you would need to do is place the Red meter lead to the B/Y wire and the other meter lead to a sufficient ground such as the negative battery terminal as you don't use another coil wire.
Coil B/Y shows battery voltage of just under 12v both on and of course a little lower when cranking.
I hooked up a timing light on one of the leading plugs and it's showing nothing.
I'm not sure when I'll have time to read and learn what to do next. I have a couple exams this coming week and my boss is asking me to work overtime the next couple weeks to get a large, over-budget, and 6 month over due contract completed. It might be next weekend before I have time to get much on the car accomplished.
10-27-13, 08:00 PM
#35
The Green/Yellow wire of the lead coil is the trigger wire so w/key to on it should register 0 volts and as the main pulley is rotated (done by rotating the alternator pulley) then the voltage on the G/Y wire will briefly change to 5 volts and then quickly back to 0 volts and it will do this over and over. Your CAS connection might be faulty as well.
10-27-13, 10:55 PM
#36
The Green/Yellow wire of the lead coil is the trigger wire so w/key to on it should register 0 volts and as the main pulley is rotated (done by rotating the alternator pulley) then the voltage on the G/Y wire will briefly change to 5 volts and then quickly back to 0 volts and it will do this over and over. Your CAS connection might be faulty as well.
11-01-13, 05:26 PM
#38
Question, should I be backprobing the connector while it's plugged into the leading coil?
Here is what I have found with this precursor. I have a parasitic drain somewhere which I tested for a few months ago and I believe my drain was within specs. I'll test it again once the battery is charged. That being said, my battery was down to 4.something volts but I tested the coil regardless.
I had the coil unplugged and stuck my lead onto the B/Y on the connector and found with the key to On I was just under 5v and it never changed while I hand turned the engine. I'll test it again once the battery is charged.
Here is what I have found with this precursor. I have a parasitic drain somewhere which I tested for a few months ago and I believe my drain was within specs. I'll test it again once the battery is charged. That being said, my battery was down to 4.something volts but I tested the coil regardless.
I had the coil unplugged and stuck my lead onto the B/Y on the connector and found with the key to On I was just under 5v and it never changed while I hand turned the engine. I'll test it again once the battery is charged.
11-01-13, 08:34 PM
#40
I figured having the battery charged is necessary...but I had everything setup before I realized I had a nearly dead battery.
11-05-13, 03:46 PM
#41
Ended up getting a new battery. My Optima Red had bad cells but was under warranty, the manager was kind enough to allow me to upgrade it to a yellow top.
Testing the G/Y I found it never moved much off of a few mV no matter how much I spun the engine by hand. To protect vs me being dumb, I had the coil connector unplugged and was testing with the lead on the G/Y pin. I'm assuming it doesn't matter if I backprobe it while plugged in.
Here's one curiosity, I tried firing up the engine with the new battery in hopes that the battery was root of all my problems. I did not realize I had not plugged the coil in from the previous time I was trying to test it. The engine fired up sporadically and died when the leading coil was not plugged in. It even stayed running for a bit, IIRC I was holding my foot on the gas. Am I wrong in assuming that my trailing coil was keeping it running?
Testing the G/Y I found it never moved much off of a few mV no matter how much I spun the engine by hand. To protect vs me being dumb, I had the coil connector unplugged and was testing with the lead on the G/Y pin. I'm assuming it doesn't matter if I backprobe it while plugged in.
Here's one curiosity, I tried firing up the engine with the new battery in hopes that the battery was root of all my problems. I did not realize I had not plugged the coil in from the previous time I was trying to test it. The engine fired up sporadically and died when the leading coil was not plugged in. It even stayed running for a bit, IIRC I was holding my foot on the gas. Am I wrong in assuming that my trailing coil was keeping it running?
11-05-13, 04:55 PM
#42
To read the G/Y wire the plug needs to be disconnected but you don't have to backprobe then because of the plug being disconnected but you need to be sure you can get a proper reading though whether you are backprobing or not as some plugs don't really allow backprobing. I'm not really familiar whether that plug can be backprobed so if it deemed rather hard to do then you might want to try from the front of the unplugged plug.
And the car would run fairly rough on just the trailing coil so that is rather normal. Did you try starting the car just on the lead coil only? If it started and ran, then obviously that coil is good to go.
And the car would run fairly rough on just the trailing coil so that is rather normal. Did you try starting the car just on the lead coil only? If it started and ran, then obviously that coil is good to go.
Last edited by satch; 11-05-13 at 05:20 PM.
11-05-13, 05:50 PM
#43
To read the G/Y wire the plug needs to be disconnected but you don't have to backprobe then because of the plug being disconnected but you need to be sure you can get a proper reading though whether you are backprobing or not as some plugs don't really allow backprobing. I'm not really familiar whether that plug can be backprobed so if it deemed rather hard to do then you might want to try from the front of the unplugged plug.
And the car would run fairly rough on just the trailing coil so that is rather normal. Did you try starting the car just on the lead coil only? If it started and ran, then obviously that coil is good to go.
And the car would run fairly rough on just the trailing coil so that is rather normal. Did you try starting the car just on the lead coil only? If it started and ran, then obviously that coil is good to go.
I didn't have time to do much else as I had to leave, but I did go to storage and pick up my spare leading and trailing coils and a spare CAS.
My question is this, if I'm seeing no change from 0-5v on G/Y does that mean the coil is getting no signal? CAS is what tells the coils when to fire correct?
11-05-13, 08:41 PM
#45
Very curious.....
I unplug the two pin trailing coil connector and leave the leading coil connector plugged in and the engine turns over just fine.
I then plug both leading and trailing in and it turns over just fine. It's dark and the car is parked outside and not in good lighting so I didn't mess with my DMM or do anything else...but could it be a grounding issue?
I unplug the two pin trailing coil connector and leave the leading coil connector plugged in and the engine turns over just fine.
I then plug both leading and trailing in and it turns over just fine. It's dark and the car is parked outside and not in good lighting so I didn't mess with my DMM or do anything else...but could it be a grounding issue?
11-05-13, 09:00 PM
#46
Could have been the weak battery that you replaced as a too low a voltage will prevent the ECU and or other components from working properly.
If you're trying to state that the engine wouldn't start properly until you unplugged the two wire plug from the trailing coil then possibly there's a problem where the two B/Y wires for the trailing coil were shorting out and also preventing the B/Y wire at the lead coil from receiving power which would render that coil from working.
If you're trying to state that the engine wouldn't start properly until you unplugged the two wire plug from the trailing coil then possibly there's a problem where the two B/Y wires for the trailing coil were shorting out and also preventing the B/Y wire at the lead coil from receiving power which would render that coil from working.
11-05-13, 10:55 PM
#47
Could have been the weak battery that you replaced as a too low a voltage will prevent the ECU and or other components from working properly.
If you're trying to state that the engine wouldn't start properly until you unplugged the two wire plug from the trailing coil then possibly there's a problem where the two B/Y wires for the trailing coil were shorting out and also preventing the B/Y wire at the lead coil from receiving power which would render that coil from working.
If you're trying to state that the engine wouldn't start properly until you unplugged the two wire plug from the trailing coil then possibly there's a problem where the two B/Y wires for the trailing coil were shorting out and also preventing the B/Y wire at the lead coil from receiving power which would render that coil from working.
I won't be able to touch the car for a couple days, maybe closer to the weekend I can play with it more.
11-07-13, 04:49 PM
#48
Got off work tried to start the car and back to nothing. I tried unplugging first the trailing coil with the lead plugged in, and trailing plugged in and lead unplugged, then back to both plugged in and no attempt to turn over.
I put my DMM on the G/Y on the leading and this time I see some voltage but it never moves. It was 1.6ish V but it never moved while the engine was hand cranked. It's possible the lead for the DMM came off the G/Y when I previously tested it and showed mV
I pulled my Rtek with fears that maybe it had some fried resistors, diodes, etc and at least visual inspection has everything looking good. No cooked parts.
I put my DMM on the G/Y on the leading and this time I see some voltage but it never moves. It was 1.6ish V but it never moved while the engine was hand cranked. It's possible the lead for the DMM came off the G/Y when I previously tested it and showed mV
I pulled my Rtek with fears that maybe it had some fried resistors, diodes, etc and at least visual inspection has everything looking good. No cooked parts.