T2 swap wiring issue. Negative terminal hot, temp guage hot
03-20-10, 03:25 PM
#51
Since you are doing a turbo swap there is no need for the air bypass relay located behind the passenger headlight for it's only used on non turbos I believe, so this relay shouldn't be connected any more. This should rule out this relay as far as the clicking sound you hear. Also, the fuel pump relay resistor also located in the same area, which "is" used on turbos shouldn't be clicking unless the key is turned to "start" or to "on" if the fuel pump check connector has been jumpered. Outside of that, there should not be any clicking of any sort with no key in the ignition.
03-21-10, 11:56 AM
#53
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I'm pretty sure I explained which wire NEEDED to be depinned in order to stop the water temp gauge pegging out. There are at least two other wires that NEED to be depinned in the orange plugs.
I've written numerous posts in the past explaining this *problem* of using a Turbo EM harness on a non turbo car. Small changes NEED to be made.
I've written numerous posts in the past explaining this *problem* of using a Turbo EM harness on a non turbo car. Small changes NEED to be made.
03-21-10, 10:46 PM
#55
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Just the gauge. ECU and wiring on the top of the engine can't keep the starter from working.
All the fuses in the interior can be blown or out and the starter works.
Starter won't work if the Main fuse is blown.............or the ignition switches black wire is not getting power............or the clutch interlock switch isn't making................or if the car has THEFT protection and is pulling in the starter cut relay, the starter won't get trigger power from the switch..........or if one of the two elect connectors b/t the starter solenoid and the plug for the starter cut relay are disconnected.
IF the blue jumper plug is removed, you'll see the connector it was connected to has one fairly large BLACK/WHITE wire in it. IF one got a piece of spare wire and stripped both ends, and put one end in the shocket that has that large black/white wire and touched the batterys positive terminal with the other end of that wire............the starter should spin over. Does on my cars.
In fact that is a easy way to determine if the problem lies in the switch.........or interlock switch .........or the wiring at the starter. IF it spins with black/white jumpered to the battery positive terminal.......then go look at those other items.
IN post #14 I showed the pinouts of the two orange in color plugs. You need to find the fifteen pin plug that is part of the EM harness on the engine. You NEED to depin two wires in it. One is BROWN/RED and just below it is a BROWN/BLACK (might be pure black on later s4). Depin and tape off the ends and tie back to the harnes out of the way.
All the fuses in the interior can be blown or out and the starter works.
Starter won't work if the Main fuse is blown.............or the ignition switches black wire is not getting power............or the clutch interlock switch isn't making................or if the car has THEFT protection and is pulling in the starter cut relay, the starter won't get trigger power from the switch..........or if one of the two elect connectors b/t the starter solenoid and the plug for the starter cut relay are disconnected.
IF the blue jumper plug is removed, you'll see the connector it was connected to has one fairly large BLACK/WHITE wire in it. IF one got a piece of spare wire and stripped both ends, and put one end in the shocket that has that large black/white wire and touched the batterys positive terminal with the other end of that wire............the starter should spin over. Does on my cars.
In fact that is a easy way to determine if the problem lies in the switch.........or interlock switch .........or the wiring at the starter. IF it spins with black/white jumpered to the battery positive terminal.......then go look at those other items.
IN post #14 I showed the pinouts of the two orange in color plugs. You need to find the fifteen pin plug that is part of the EM harness on the engine. You NEED to depin two wires in it. One is BROWN/RED and just below it is a BROWN/BLACK (might be pure black on later s4). Depin and tape off the ends and tie back to the harnes out of the way.
03-22-10, 08:38 AM
#56
Ok, so we will go down the list in order of what happened versus what has been done.
Swapped s5 NA motor with s4 Intake manifold and wiring into 86 base. Car would crank but no start. Noticed negative terminal getting hot.
Found Jspec t2 motor in another shell, cranked well, great compression, fuel issue according to owner.
Took s5 motor out of s4 car, swapped in s4 jspec t2 motor. Cranked well at first, negative terminal getting hot, cranked slower like there was drag on battery, then wouldn't crank at all.
Looked to replace what I thought was main relay, which was actually starter cut relay for the security system because this worked on my s5 when I had a similar issue. Got that confusion out of the way.
I checked and redid the grounds, put two different starters in and still the same problem. Redid the battery terminals. Same issue. Both starters bench tested fine and main fuse was replaced to no effect.
When pulling off the blue connector and jumping the Black and white wire from the positive terminal the car does nothing, you can hear the fuel going thru the rails and everything. When the connector is on and checking it with a voltmeter in the start position the reading is 10.4 volts. This would indicate the ignition switch is working fine.
The wire going to the starter, the big *** one does however have chunks of insulation missing but isn't contacting anything. At the starter it reads over 12 volts and the small terminal on start reads about 9 or so.
I do however have two relays behind the headlights and one clicks at random now with no key in. This maybe because the engine harness is not connected at the chassis at those two orange connectors. This is where I stand now.
I will depin the orange connectors and fix that issue after I can get the car to crank. Need to handle this issue first.
Swapped s5 NA motor with s4 Intake manifold and wiring into 86 base. Car would crank but no start. Noticed negative terminal getting hot.
Found Jspec t2 motor in another shell, cranked well, great compression, fuel issue according to owner.
Took s5 motor out of s4 car, swapped in s4 jspec t2 motor. Cranked well at first, negative terminal getting hot, cranked slower like there was drag on battery, then wouldn't crank at all.
Looked to replace what I thought was main relay, which was actually starter cut relay for the security system because this worked on my s5 when I had a similar issue. Got that confusion out of the way.
I checked and redid the grounds, put two different starters in and still the same problem. Redid the battery terminals. Same issue. Both starters bench tested fine and main fuse was replaced to no effect.
When pulling off the blue connector and jumping the Black and white wire from the positive terminal the car does nothing, you can hear the fuel going thru the rails and everything. When the connector is on and checking it with a voltmeter in the start position the reading is 10.4 volts. This would indicate the ignition switch is working fine.
The wire going to the starter, the big *** one does however have chunks of insulation missing but isn't contacting anything. At the starter it reads over 12 volts and the small terminal on start reads about 9 or so.
I do however have two relays behind the headlights and one clicks at random now with no key in. This maybe because the engine harness is not connected at the chassis at those two orange connectors. This is where I stand now.
I will depin the orange connectors and fix that issue after I can get the car to crank. Need to handle this issue first.
03-22-10, 09:21 AM
#57
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When pulling off the blue connector and jumping the Black and white wire from the positive terminal the car does nothing, you can hear the fuel going thru the rails and everything. When the connector is on and checking it with a voltmeter in the start position the reading is 10.4 volts. This would indicate the ignition switch is working fine.
What happens if you get a piece of wire bare at each end and one end to the batt positive post and then touch the other end to the small blade on the starter solenoid?? Starter should spin?????
When someone HOLDS the key to START, and the blue connector is on the harness, do you hear the fuel go thru the rail. I suspect the answer is yes, meaning the start signal is like you said, getting thru to at least the black/white wire at the blue connector.
You SURE you have the positive batt cable connected to the right terminal on the starter solenoid. There's two studs there that it would fit on. Anyway, touch batt pwer to the small blade and the solenoid should engage.
Did you change any other harness on the car other than the one that goes on the engine (EM)?????
There is one connector b/t the Blue jumper connector and the starter solenoid. Called FE-05 on a non turbo car. Has four sockets/pins on a car without ABS. One wire black/white......one wire black/red....one wire black.......one wire red/white.
What happens if you get a piece of wire bare at each end and one end to the batt positive post and then touch the other end to the small blade on the starter solenoid?? Starter should spin?????
When someone HOLDS the key to START, and the blue connector is on the harness, do you hear the fuel go thru the rail. I suspect the answer is yes, meaning the start signal is like you said, getting thru to at least the black/white wire at the blue connector.
You SURE you have the positive batt cable connected to the right terminal on the starter solenoid. There's two studs there that it would fit on. Anyway, touch batt pwer to the small blade and the solenoid should engage.
Did you change any other harness on the car other than the one that goes on the engine (EM)?????
There is one connector b/t the Blue jumper connector and the starter solenoid. Called FE-05 on a non turbo car. Has four sockets/pins on a car without ABS. One wire black/white......one wire black/red....one wire black.......one wire red/white.
03-22-10, 09:28 AM
#58
unless I am completely and entirely retarded (which is possible) the power wire goes to the terminal that is to the left when looking at it. When connecting them with a screw driver they spark but nothing happens. Off of the car it works when bench tested. Engine turns by hand so it isnt locked up.
I am going to cut into the harness and inspect the wires.
Also keep in mind the car cranked before as hooked up now. It just quit. Something had to have burnt up or dragging the system.
I am going to cut into the harness and inspect the wires.
Also keep in mind the car cranked before as hooked up now. It just quit. Something had to have burnt up or dragging the system.
03-22-10, 10:17 AM
#59
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On early 86 and 87 there exists something called the RETRACTOR RELAY near both headlights. So find the relay that clicks and write down the color of each wire and then post it here and I can tell you what that relay does.
With it clicking with the key OFF, I'd suspect its the headlight Retract Relay.....maybe. Maybe the assy is in a bind and that is causing the clicking.
With it clicking with the key OFF, I'd suspect its the headlight Retract Relay.....maybe. Maybe the assy is in a bind and that is causing the clicking.
03-22-10, 02:52 PM
#60
Ok we decided to check the wires themselves and pulled that part of the harness back and removed all the nasty tape and individually inspected the wires. We took a starter and put it on the strut tower and connected it to the wires and held the ground to it and the leading coil pack was making this high pitched whining sound and the starter would do nothing.
We grabbed another starter that has not been on that car yet and did the same thing and the coil was whining still yet but the starter kept popping out when we would put power to the small terminal. Again the negative terminal would get hot and smoke.
We put it in the car and it clicked the first time we tried to start it, but no time after that.
This is the fourth time we have replaced the starter and it clicked the first time but no time after that. This is the only thing consistent. Why would it do that?
We grabbed another starter that has not been on that car yet and did the same thing and the coil was whining still yet but the starter kept popping out when we would put power to the small terminal. Again the negative terminal would get hot and smoke.
We put it in the car and it clicked the first time we tried to start it, but no time after that.
This is the fourth time we have replaced the starter and it clicked the first time but no time after that. This is the only thing consistent. Why would it do that?
03-22-10, 05:59 PM
#62
Be kind, Redline!
Well I'm no professional but I've heard of this problem quite a few times and most of the time, if not all of the time, turned out to be a short in the key ignition harness. That might just be the the alarm going into protection? If not that it might be that the aluminum battery cables are either bad or their resistance has gone up in the cold weather. (knowing that the engine sat for a while?) May also be battery post corrosion. Check voltage drop between post and cable terminal at both posts. Then check between negative post and chassis metal. Check between positive post and big terminal on starter. You'd probably need Jamal to operate the key. A voltage drop of 1.5 volts is enough to stall a starter. Now once again I did my research and have come to this conclusion.. Correct me if I'm wrong HAILERS
03-22-10, 07:38 PM
#63
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Your starter look anything like the attached jpg out of the ENGINE ELECTRICAL? Some it isn't very clear, but there should be a cable coming out of the starter itself going to one of the two threaded studs on the solenoid. Then the positive cable fromf the battery goes to the other threaded studs on the solenoid. Then the trigger wire goes on the small blade I colored Red.
The starter out of the car............jumper cables from the batt neg post to the body of the starter (say one of the mounting ears. Then jumper with a small wire, from the batt positive post to the small blade on the solenoid. The starter won't turn over, of course, but the solenoid should CLICK. Does that happen?
The starter out of the car............jumper cables from the batt neg post to the body of the starter (say one of the mounting ears. Then jumper with a small wire, from the batt positive post to the small blade on the solenoid. The starter won't turn over, of course, but the solenoid should CLICK. Does that happen?
03-24-10, 09:04 PM
#66
Fixed. Somewhat.
We got the starters to click and spin after changing the battery. We used the stock ground and power wire BUT ran a trigger from the battery like we had a million times before.
So we ran the stock trigger wire to it (keep in mind this is all bench testing with the starter out of the car) and it clicked once and would never move again, even after we went back to doing it straight from the battery.
This basically means that the trigger wire is frying the starters. I went ahead and put the volt meter back into the trigger wire and when the car was at ON it would be at 11.65 volts, at start it was at 12.65, which is odd as ****.
Anyhow we planned on doing a push button start in the stock cigarette lighter location anyhow so we are going to run a wire directly from the battery to the switch back to the starter switch terminal.
When we want to start the car we will put the key to on and push the button and it should start, or should I hold the key to start still?
We got the starters to click and spin after changing the battery. We used the stock ground and power wire BUT ran a trigger from the battery like we had a million times before.
So we ran the stock trigger wire to it (keep in mind this is all bench testing with the starter out of the car) and it clicked once and would never move again, even after we went back to doing it straight from the battery.
This basically means that the trigger wire is frying the starters. I went ahead and put the volt meter back into the trigger wire and when the car was at ON it would be at 11.65 volts, at start it was at 12.65, which is odd as ****.
Anyhow we planned on doing a push button start in the stock cigarette lighter location anyhow so we are going to run a wire directly from the battery to the switch back to the starter switch terminal.
When we want to start the car we will put the key to on and push the button and it should start, or should I hold the key to start still?
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