cynikal

hey everyone i have on my hands a dilema. I am looking to get another FC but im thinking about buying a shell and putting a motor in it , but which motor should i get? My choices right now are the 13B-RE TT motor with trans or the 13BT out of an 89-91 the shell is non turbo.

What are your thoughts i mean what would i need for both swaps other than the ecu trans engine etc? anything else i would need? i have had three FC one packed a lot of power with its T70 turbo and eventually i would like to be back up to the 4-500hp mark again but which one would be the better build?

please let me know so i can order everything up

dawicka2

^^^^^^^Mimic your old 4-500 hp set up (that i dont believe you had, or you would not be asking this question).

john ny

cynikal

Maybe the question was not clear i know how to put a 13B turbo in and give it the power i want my last car had a T70 turbo 1600cc injectors streetported megasquirt etc. etc. i know how to build a car i work on race porsches everyday , what i want to know is about the 13b-reTT i do not know much a bout that particular engine and what it would take to put that into a 91 NA body aside from the ecu , harness trans and misc odds and ends i was curious about hat particular motor and wanted advice on which everyone thought would be a better swap

lupin

iTrader: (3)

Its gonna cost more but I am thinking about going 13bre myself.
the 13bre swap has been done before, There is a very helpful search button.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=13bre+swap

dot_txt

iTrader: (1)

13B-RE will be a good starting point if your looking for power.. Otherwise if you start off with the N/A your going to have more problems getting to the 400HP mark.

Its going to be very expensive though..

TitaniumTT

13B-RE gets expensive and time consuming becuase nothing bolts on. Everything has to be custom fabricatted to make it fit. There is also no way that I am aware of unless you can read japanese to get the RE ECU/Harness and make the twins work. Not to mention the twins are pysically smaller than the twin HT-12's found on the REW.

All in all if you have to ask, buy a 13BT and drop it in. Buy parts that fit and don't bother.

cynikal

i think im going to go with the RE i have a friend that can fabricate everything and he has done the swap once before(which i didnt know til now) so he can make me some mounts and stuff as for the twin setup you you can still run the twin setup you just have to use like haltech or something to control the sequential turbos or make them non -sequential i will post my progress for everyone to see

TitaniumTT

not worth it to run the twins. They are small and more than likely blown. Not to mention not rebuildable. I have a set of REW twins and spent close to $8,000 to make them work the way I wanted them to, and they still need work and tuning. Don't even bother with the twins unless you're swapping in an REW and using a PFC or have deep pockets and plan on going BNR.

You have much to learn about twin turbos

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Lol, another kid with RE dreams.

TitaniumTT

How deep are you now? I don't even want to add mine up.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Swap alone if I had to guess, probably ~ 13k and I need to dump another grand into getting my gas tank sumped and AN fittings.

TitaniumTT

If you get a surge tank I think the sumping isn't really necessary. At least that's what I'm hoping. I don't want a sumped tank. If anything I'll do a fuel cell before I sumped tank.

What about fuel lines? Are you replacing the rusting stockers with some -6? Hard or braided?

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

I don't think I'm going with the surge tank any longer. It's a little more than I want to tackle since I don't even have a TIG. I talked to Mike (13b-rx3) about it and he said you would want a somewhat funnel shaped tank where the fuel entered at an angle to create a swirl. At that point I gave up since I don't have the tools to do this job. Where does your dislike for sumps come from?

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

It is really not that much more expensive to do a RE swap then a S5 TII swap when you are talking about 400-500hp. You still need all the supporting mods: turbo, fuel, clutch, IC, ECU, etc etc and the TII drivetrain. There is a little more expense with brackets and misc items, but in the grand scheme of things it is not that much more and you end up with an engine that has stronger castings and the largest intake runners of all the 13B's.

Even rebuilding the engine isn't any more expensive. The engine purchase is a little more ($300-$400 ish)

Now if you are comparing it to a stock TII swap, it is a night and day budget. However once you start getting into the high hp bracket, it is still going to cost $15K & up with all the parts that need to be purchased. With that budget in mind another $1k-2k is not a lot, and you end up with a much better engine, that is not nearly as prone to cracking the dowel pin landings and looks so much cooler...

http://www.banzai-racing.com/br_projects_vert_pg5.htm

TitaniumTT

It's not so much a dislike for sumps as it is a preference towards surge tanks. While a swirl inside the pot is ideal, most of them are mounted strait in such as mine. I'm also not all that well versed on sumps but the ones that I have seen don't seem to offer any real benefit above the stock tanks when cornering which is where the stocker lacks. At least mine does. Others haven't had any problems at all, but I have under hard sustained left turns. I'm not building a drag car so the fuel is going to be sloshings everywhere and not just back which is where it wants to be for a sump to work properly, at least the ones I have seen. You also want the pump as low as possible. It's easy to get a fuel pump lower than an surge tank, it's tough to get it lower than a sump. Not to mention a sump further limits and already limited ground clearance. Here's what I came up with, not the ideal mounting position and I haven't decided if I'm going to plumb it or not, but heres the tank and how it sits




I think you're confusing yourself, a person who has the knowledge and ABILITY to solve all these tiny problems with someone who thinks of themselves as a mechanic or car builder when all they can do is bolt on existing parts that fit perfectly. Some people own plasmas and TIGs but most don't. Most would look at the throttle cable on an N/A and just not have a clue in the world how to solve that problem. You and I and Scott on the other hand broke out some variation of a plasma, the MIG, and a brain and just solved it. Most people I'm finding, especially the younger crowd, can't do much beyond basic repairs which makes the 13B-RE not a good choice for them. They would be much better suited with 13BT that will bolt in, and then they can purchase all the required bolt on mods.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Agreed, this is not something the average backyard-shade tree-DIY'er should do, and this is also a project that does not fit into a "kids" budget. However to exclude everyone from being able to afford or complete this conversion would be foolish. The facts are it can and has been done and it is a worthwhile project if the budget exists for it. We have rebuilt many many 13b-RE engines, for people as far away as Moscow, Russia. The people that can afford and do have the skills for this project do exist, there is always the possibility that Cynikal falls into that small percentile....or he may have the cash to have someone else more skilled do the work for him/her.

I see a lot of these 13b-RE threads and we are both active in most of them. I am just saying that you should not be so quick to assume they are all pipe dreams. Granted 99% are....

I receive just as many emails asking about pricing for dropping in 13b-re's and 20b's into FC's. I know most are just time wasters that think it can be done for a few hundred dollars on a N/A drivetrain, but every once in a while, there are serious inquiries

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

I really hope you have a template email for these types of emails? If not, wtf man?

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

When you start off a reply with numbers like $15-25K it usually opens their eyes pretty quickly, same holds true for the numerous FD owners that think they can afford a 20B swap (which we get at least one request a week)

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

People don't realize labor charges at all. That's usually half the cost. Luckily though, with the RE/REW motors there are a few things already mocked up to plant the motor in there. Just ditching the twins and running BNR's or better is a hard thing to do when they are with the motor.


And people who can afford to do a 20B swap, and do it the RIGHT way the FIRST time can afford a Z06, Porsche 911, etc. Those types of projects are insane to me.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

This is true, but then they would just be another Z06 or 911 driver, there are a million of those. Having a 20B is a little more unique. This type of project is done by people that have lots of toys...

TitaniumTT

I usually don't when the questions are a little bit more specific to the swap itself rather than the generic, "what do I need to do?" That generally tells me that they lack what I would consider to be basic automotive knowledge of what would need to be changed along with an engine. He furthered his grave when talking about using the twins and "the ECU". If by "the" he means the N/A ECU than I'm at a loss for words, if he means the Cosmo ecu than he just simply hasn't done any research at all. Not to mention he's talking about ordering everything up all at once which as we all know, isn't the greatest of plans.

I agree though, some do come to fruition but I'm sure alot more die in the dream process or right after the motor gets in place on a set of your mounts and the "builder" looks at everything and realizes they are in over their head. Both from a logisitcal "Oh **** I have to solve problems and build parts?" stand point and a finace stand point.

Seriously? WOW Well lets look at it this way, at least you're educating them before they drop a ton of bread and end up loosing whatever savings they have to earn a dime on the dollar when they sell it.

I was just going to say that.

Or people that have had one toy for almost 12 years and keep going more and more extreme every 2 years or so. I know someone like that.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Yes, we see lots of the same people that email us for a quote, come on to this forum, just to be told the same ballpark pricing that we have already given them by folks like yourself. I can tell who most of them are by the questions they ask, the details do not vary much from the emails.

We try to let people know it takes a lot more than just a set of engine brackets, this is why we have our project vert chronicled.

sunburn

I bought this tank a little while back.. have not installed it yet.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

Just saying they can afford them, not meaning they would buy them. I would prefer a 20B over a Z06, but over a Porsche it would have to depend on which one and how crazy you get with a 20B.

TitaniumTT

Sleeper 7 that can out hustle a porsche > Porsche. Now the E46 serves a different purpose. Traction is the problem though, not making the power.