dkaszak88

any one ever supercharge their fc? ive been looking at the camden super charger for the fc and it doesnt say anything about ecu flashing or anything. any one have any info?

AcidShock

iTrader: (49)

Definitely do a search. There is a lot of information in this section and the archives about installs, pros and cons, types of superchargers out there.

dkaszak88

ok. im looking into getting another fc, i wanna find one thats stock turbo, but its not easy to come by so im just looking at my options for if i buy an na. but if anyone has done the camder blower id like to know their set up and if its safe to blow the stock engine. also any other parts i will need to supercharge

rotordad

Well alot of people with the Camden kit used carb set ups. I use to have a carb set up but went FI with a standalone.

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

Hey look here!!!!

I'm too nice. FYI search supercharged...


https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=supercharged




.

rotordad

That post was more towards the now unavailble Paxton/ Nelson a centrifugal set up not the Camden a roots type blower the OP asked about, but yes just look up Supercharging or even Camden.

ifryrice

Avoid Camden at all costs. It's been more than documented as to why previously. The ONLY worthwhile bolt-on kit is the Paxton/Nelson kit. Often times, the car's would make almost as much power without the camden than they end up making with it (figure that one out!). They're overpriced junk, go turbo and ditch the whole unique idea because when it comes to using Camden the unique factor is just an excuse for being stupid. Unless you can fabricate and use one of the many decent centrifugal's out there (you'll probably have to vent some air to get them within decent efficiency ranges for the 13B), or you go twin-screw, it's not worth it.

A stock turbo will produce more HP, and TQ throughout the entire powerband than any of the existing Camden dyno's ever have.

Schmitty

iTrader: (11)

I have a camden supercharger... I'm running it with the stock ECU and a FPR... It's definitely not life changing but its still a fun "bolt-on" mod. I got mine for a song a year and a half ago and most of my miles with it have been autox, track days, and drift events.

dkaszak88

the camden website says u dont have to change anything with the ecu. so its tru? ever dyno ur setup?

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

ECU, is this for FI? If so, try to purchase it. They do not make it and do not sell it. Why they have not taken it iff their site is beyond me. They admitted that it failed and did not work as advertised when I called them about it.

Schmitty

iTrader: (11)

It is true that you don't have to change anything with the ECU but it's also not like you can just bolt the kit on and go... most of the things you have to do to make this kit work you would have to do to put a turbo on the car. Initially you save on wiring, injectors, and fuel management but eventually you will want more and will wish you went with the turbo set up. Since I already have the kit on my car I want more power (surprise, surprise) I am going to set it up so that I can run any setup I want in it and eventually turbo my NA or swap in a 13bt or v8 or whatever...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

why would they make a kit if no one has ever bought it? read my sig.

the camden kit isn't the most popular method though, it has had plenty of reliability issues which hopefully they have resolved.

ifryrice

The resolution is to run the slower pulley, which results in less overall boost. Typically cars are only seeing a 10-20whp gain with the setup tuned on an aftermarket ECU, on the stock ECU it's even less, and essentially is nothing more than a glorified noisemaker. I've dealt directly with them a number of times, they're terrible and a huge waste of money.

For those who want the research, go search the codeblue/SonicRaT/greek_teric(sp?)/pianoprodigy threads of old.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Like I said, they have NOT resolved the issues and for that reason, they will NOT sell the kit. I tried to purchase one in 2009, and they said that they had given up on resolving the issues for FI engines and were no longer selling or developing the kit.

rotordad

The claim of existing Camden dyno's is by far not correct, have you seen every dyno made by users of the Camden kit? I say that you haven't because I have never posted mine. The Paxton/Nelson kit is no longer sold & has not been for some time now. There's no reason to call someone stupid for buying something because you don't like or understand something. Have you ever owned a supercharged rotary or even a supecharged car? Sounds like your comments are based upon others opinions. The Camden kit itself is expensive yes & can be improved upon, but as with any turbo kit things can be better. I have improved my kit superior to the offered kit. I didn't care what others thought or about being unique. I wanted to take something & make it better. I have said this before " supercharging isn't for everyone, it's expensive, it's not going to amass huge power numbers & there is more R&D for turbo rotaries. The twin screw is the way to go but even more costly.

ifryrice

As I've already mentioned, I've dealt with the Camden's on numerous occasions. I've twice had the camden blower installed on my car, I've installed it on others, and I've removed it from others as well. I've also owned the Paxton kit, used an Eaton blower, and a whipple twin-screw that all have been installed on rotaries. When it comes to supercharged rotaries I've probably got more experience than 99% of the members of the forum. I've seen 3 Camden units implode first-hand because they sold pulleys that overspun the charger. The resulting mass of shaved metal dumped through the intakes forced rebuilds on all of them. The solution to keep it from imploding is to run the low boost pulley, of which nobody has yet to post a dyno of over 210whp with that I've found. Have you ever datalogged the IAT on that thing? It's pretty incredible the amount of heat that thing blows through. It's an inefficient blower on an inefficient manifold, and it's result is absolutely dismal for the cost involved. There's not even much in the way you can improve. You can follow CB's thread, they had everything imaginable thrown into that setup and only made ~220 with the higher psi pulley. That was with a ported engine, an aftermarket ECU, fuel upgrades, and an aftermarket intake/TB. Have you seen the stock dyno's? I've dyno'd 2 'stock' block camden cars with your regular bolt on's (header/catless/aftermarket catback), one was MT powered and the other with an SAFC. Neither was able to get over 180whp reliably, and there's a slew of dyno results posted on the forum with very similar numbers as well. From there, go and compare to a stock turbo dyno with the similar bolt-on's/mods, and you'll find they produce more HP and usually more torque throughout the entire band as well.

There's really no good logical reason to go that route, the only arguement that can be made is that it's 'bolt-on', but hell, even the stock TII hardware is as equally bolt on. Unique is just silly, you'd be better off putting one of those exhaust whistles on the car to be unique if that's all you're after. As has been said, the only worthwhile existing bolt-on kit is the Paxtons, if you can get your hands on one. Otherwise design your own. The topics been beaten to death, with everything from efficiency comparisons, dyno results, and graphs of all the various charger setups.

Schmitty

iTrader: (11)

Which Pulleys are you talking about? the 12psi wheel over revving the blower?

You are right about the heat. Mine got hot enough to melt the omp lines... fortuately I have been premixing as a back up for years since I've had 2 s5 omps fail on me over the years. I have water/meth injection on my car spraying above the blower to keep the actual blower/ lobes cool under load. Its not the optimum setup for chemical intercooling but it really makes all the difference in the world regarding blower temperature. I have been contemplating running some machining coolant/cutting fluid (basically emulsified oil) in my water-meth mix for some added lubrication but since I don't know if it will leave deposits/ash in the combustion chamber I am reluctant to do it.

Atkins Rotary told me that one of the issues they had with the blower is that it is designed to have fuel running through it to cool and lubricate the lobes (although they are teflon tipped a little extra lube won't hurt) When the kit is installed in our cars the fuel is injected into the lower manifold, below the blower, and thus the lobes see none of benefit of the atomised fuel running through.

rotordad

Yes roots styled blowers create alot of heat, some people use water meth injection, I have a water to air aftercooler & have run a water meth kit. As far as my fuel set up, Fuel is introduced both pre blower & post blower. I have ran my set up for 8 of the last 11 yrs this way with the 12lb pulley & an oversized main pulley, no problems yet. I can not quote any current dyno numbers as the car is down due to an electrical issue, but will gladly post them when I get some. Now there's no reason to argue this subject, it's getting old really to each his own good luck to everyone & thier projects.

ifryrice

I don't recall the pulley off the top of my head, it's been a few since I've dealt with them. If I recall there's a 5, 9, and 12? Some people were mistakenly given the 12 right off the bat for their EFI setups, but I've seen the 9's (or whichever was the midrange) fail as well, the smallest one was the only one I haven't seen a failure of. The failure seems to happen in the drive gear itself, which then causes the lobes to contact as their bearings/etc fail, I don't know how much fuel would go to helping the drive area as it's not directly exposed.

As both of you mentioned, with that blower it's absolutely a MUST to run some kind of AI or intercooling, the heat it throws out with no kind of cooler is a bad combo at any power level. I spent a couple years throwing every supercharger I could get my hands on onto my GTUs, and from experience I found AI is just the ultimate reliability mod.

Schmitty

iTrader: (11)

I've got an 8psi wheel on mine now. I have the 12 too but I'm waiting for some fuel control before I experiment with that. Did the blower failures happen on cars with NA oil pumps? I had to switch to a TII oil pump to return my oil pressure to normal since I was pumping alot of oil to the SC. I can see how you might not get enough oil to the blower with an NA oil pump or a restriction in the feed line like too many elbows to make it work with the oil filter pedestal. I can see how the drive gears/bearings may wear out in that situation.

ifryrice

2 of them I've seen were, as it was installed per the instructions we were given at the time. The other was using a TII pump with an aftermarket regulator, so supply shouldn't have been a problem unless it had too much pressure, but we were told it'd be fine.

rotordad

I have seen a few different Camden set ups over the years, but have yet to see ones like mine using the 4 bolt blower snout & the manifold has a pop off valve on the front. As far as oil I use the a Mazda comp high volume pump & high pressure reg with the shimmed front. Between the aftercooler & water meth inj heat should have dropped a considerible amount. I have seen Camden set ups in the upper 200hp range with no charge cooling & a far less quality fuel system & tune than what I'm running. I would love too see 300+ with the set up I have. Between the charge cooling & more boost don't see why I can't hit close to the mark. If not I'll pull the motor & set up drop it in my 83. Then put in my turbo motor. Either way it's a win / win situation.

Note the differences between mine & others, look at the belt routing & pulley size, snout & pulley design.

mine looks like this. Exuse the mess trying to rewire




Others look like this




from Camden

ifryrice

I've not seen any with the extended nose. It's a bit chaotic looking under the hood, but it's all for good reason. Are you quoting BHP or whp for the upper 200's? The only information I've ever found putting them over 250 was on the ported motors giving BHP. I can't imagine that aftercooling would net about 80whp over all the other dyno's though. I've only had two blowers I was able to get over 250whp with, a Vortech that I bled air from and a whipple. The most I could get from the vortech was right around 270 pushing it very near it's max rpm. The whipple I was able to get 340whp at ~16psi, but the cost was insane.

Spent a good 40 minutes searching, and can't find one Camden dyno over 210.

scathcart

Forget the roots blower. Just chuck a Novi 3000 on there and call it a day.

rotordad

Between 280 & 300 bhp sorry didn't clarify, but I want to achieve around 330 to 350 whp not to say I will. Still tho with an average of a 15% drivetrain loss would still be 250+ whp. My motor set up hit 280+ bhp before the aftercooler & new fuel sys. How did you like the Whipple Rice? Oh yeah it's a mess right now I'm trying to trace a wiring issue & then tuck away what is left.