OC_

even though i want to get this show on the road, im still quite skeptical of the hole thing. Is there any working models/prototypes? Lets face it, this is a pretty ambiguous project!

Phu5ion

well i'm not sure you can rely on the temperature data from Eaton's website because remember they are using a conventional supercharger technology. The increase in heat could very well be due to the lack of efficiency in the system. i didn't read anywhere in particular where they stated how efficient their superchargers are.

Remember from our physics days that heat is one of the main byproducts when efficiency is lost. That being said and if assuming that the Tesla pump maintains a 98% efficiency the temperature of this new system may not reach that high of a temperature.

Of course, I’m basically talking out my a$#, I have now proof and i have no idea how the Tesla pump would react to a higher pressure.

But, in general, from all the current superchargers I’ve seen on the market they seem to say you won't need an intercooler as long as you keep it under 6psi.

Phu5ion

and i agree with OC_, that a lot of people on here are going to be very skeptical of the idea without the backing of a fully functional prototype and possibly dyno runs showing the power before and after the install. maybe some price points too. i know you said that it would be significantly less, but how much. 2/3 the price a supercharger? Maybe even 1/2?

FrankGermano

Due to the great response on this idea for a supercharger, and a legnthy discussion with my partners, we are going to tackle this issue. It also helps that our main partner and machine shop owner is an RX-7 man, as well (third gen). Before anyone goes off the deep end with the technical issues regarding the Tesla Turbine - keep it simple. The turbine is a ridiculously simple engine. Again - view my website and absorb all of the data there - http://www.frank.germano.com/tesla_turbine.htm and http://www.frank.germano.com/thecompany.htm . From there, you will get a better understanding of what we have, and can accomplish with this task. The Tesla systems do not behave like any conventional turbine or engine in existance. We needed to rethink everything and come up with our own flow charts and diagnostics with this beast. There is a nice XLS spreadsheet program in the files section of the Tesla Turbine List (Yahoo Groups) which you can all freely use to crunch some numbers. You'll have to join the list, first: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTeslaTurbineList/ . Anyway, I'll keep this short. We are now officially undertaking this project. I will keep this forum posted of our results, and, if I need some technical expertize, I am sure it is readily available. Thanks for all the interest and support in your past posts everyone. Supercharger, Bladeless Disk Intercooler, and Turbocharger projects have started.

Capn' Wankel

YAY!! Supercharger goodness coming to town WOOT WOOT!!!

FrankGermano

After doing quite allot of reading through the supercharger material already out there...it looks like "Nelson" has the best kit for the RX-7. Mike Ancas' book "Mazda RX-7 Performance Handbook" states about the same thing. We will use their benchmark figures as a starting point. I'll keep tabs on this forum and update you when we have something to demonstrate. Added a bunch more goodies to the ride, yesterday and today as well...wow, am I sinking allot of funds into this car, and I've hardly touched the engine yet with performance parts.

kristopher_d

Do one thing: Make a tidy profit.

I will buy one for my rex. I will buy one for my Celica. When I replace my now dead Mustang, I will buy one for it. What I'm saying is: I want to see this idea propegate beyond the RX-7 because from everything I've read, it is a great technology. You and I both know that if you don't turn a profit, you wont build many units. The more units you build, the less you need to charge per unit, while still increasing your profit. I know you know this, or you wouldn't be in business.

I am giddy with excitement. It's been a long time since I came across any quality ideas in the making. Honestly, I'm very excited about what you are capable of.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I might just be stupid, but I have 2 questions.

1) I'm having a really hard time visualizing this concept. Are there any available pictures, exploded views, etc. That can help me to peice it all together.

2) This might have been answered by #1, but. You're suggesting making an intermittant supercharger; one that only comes on after a spacific RPM. The normal concept of a supercharger, is to make from the supercharger BACK a closed/sealed system. From what I understand, you can't take the belt off of a supercharger, and just drive the car around; because the intake is sealed. Is this not the case with the tesla turbine? Like I said, I'm having trouble visualizing it.

I'm looking forward to being a possible owner of this in the not too distant future... I just don't want to be the 1st one.

flying taco

http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/teslapum.htm

http://www.lindsaybks.com/arch/turbine/

http://www.geocities.com/vair65_2000/tesla/

http://www.land.salzburg.at/htblha/i...chs/start.html

These have some pretty good graphics and descriptions... go to the company website as well, it shows stuff with plenty of detail.

flying taco

Hey, I just made a little drawing from one of the drawings on those sites... I think this is how it works but I'm not 100% sure... could someone tell me if I have the concept right? The air comes in and flows smoothly around then out through the ports in the center, in the process pushing the disks around from both the air pushing against the inner surface of the port plus the friction of the air against the disk while it cirlces around towards the port. BTW Frank... check your PM's... I'm an engeering student looking for a co-op job... if your company hosts co-ops I'd love to check out the program.

FrankGermano

The Tesla turbine is actually two units in one - in one mode, it is a rotary engine, and in another, it becomes a turbine. I won't waste the space in this post to thoroughly describe the modes of operation, go to my website - http://www.frank.germano.com/tesla_turbine.htm and you will there find volumes of information from Tesla, himself, that will get you acquainted with the turbine. We have many operational prototypes which are production ready. Click on this link for some information on International Turbine And Power, LLC and our company - it will also show you some jpg images of one of our turbines and an exploded view of the internal components. It's pretty simple once you get a grasp on exactly what the engine is.

OC_

It seems your totally backwords on that. The air inters the center then exits through the peripheral. It says the fluid " moves towards the outer edge of the disks".

But for an engine. I think this would be backwords. You compressed charge would enter through the peripheral housing an leave through the center.

FrankGermano

For exploded views of the internal components of one of our ITP BDT engines, use this link - http://www.frank.germano.com/thecompany.htm about 2/3 the way down the page. The engine is functional, and has run from propane combustion for over two years, to date.

Capn' Wankel

TTT

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

so, let me ask everyone a question, this is for those of you who know alor about rex'. If I have an 86 gxl engine and i want to upgrde it with this turbine (if it was already on the market) would i have to update fuel system, and what exactly would i need to get to about 18 psi of boost, upgrade anything else? Just a thought.

OC_

18lbs of boost is A LOT of boost. especially for a N/A high compression engine.

FrankGermano

IF we do it according to the book, you will not have to upgrade anything. I really think the boost should be kept below 8 lbs. and that means no mods to the Wankel. Also keep in mind that the Wankel just loves large volumes of air. If we go over the 8lbs. mark, then we will also have to address engine mods, fuel system increases and pressures, modulation of engine controls and the like, which I do not feel would be worth the additional investment at the moment, unless you want a strictly race type of car.

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

I don't want a strictly race type car, but i don't know how it is over there, but over there are some bad azz street race cars that do not play. Im talking 400 whp easy. Quick *** things, so if I have the money, i was gonna do the turbo engine swap anyway, so i'd like to take it higher than 8, what would be the i,portant upgrades? I think i can stick with the stock ecu and wiring harness as long as i get myself an a/f controller thing. And i'd have to add bigger injectors ( not so clear on that subject) and a bigger pump. What else would i need?

ScrapFC

iTrader: (5)

Fascinating. When you have a product ready for sale (or even beta-testing) I am quite interested. with a TurboII drivetrain, this should allow me to run my s4 GXL as a Sleeper of Doom! With the compact size and high efficiency I also see applications in motorcycles and cars that have engine bays too small to easily fit a conventional blower. I would be VERY interested in fitting one of these to my Honda CBX, which is too tightly-packaged to be practical with a conventional turbo.
I'm wondering if there's any reason we can't just switch to a Delco 10SI to replace the stock alternator? They're compact, bulletproof, use a 1-wire connection (Internally regulated) and can easily produce over 100A. Should be more than enough, unless there's something I'm missing...

patman

iTrader: (3)

dude this i totally amazing. i have studied tesla before and was really interested in the turbine engine, but i had no idea that they were actually in production! so you started a company to manufacture these? damn we need more people like that. i would like to say that i would buy one of these as soon as they came out but i am a poor high school student :-( However, if you do produce them, i will start saving! Anyway kudos on the idea and i am totally behind the project.

Also i think that the power problem would not matter b\c if you are going to drop the dough for a supercharger, what the hell is an upgraded alternator to ya? anyway with the efficiency of the tesla, would you really need one anyway?

flying taco

The TT isn't going to be belt driven... it would have an electric motor, so the need of more energy might required a bigger alternator.

Aaron

Capn' Wankel

Hey Frank wouldn't a different size pulley be all that you would need if you wanted more boost than the 8 that you are talking about? Or are you going to be designing the tesla so that it will be limited by a maximum rpm at which certain parts become overstressed and begin to fail?

vaughnc

OK, so what's the latest on this. Somone designed / tested one of these?

Drakk0r

If you really make this kit and it works as well as you say it will, I'll be one of the first in line to buy it. I'm planning on ditching my Turbocharged N/A setup and going to a full TII conversion (engine, drivetrain, brakes/hubs, new wheels). But if you can get this kit out before next summer when I plan to do all that, I might take a different route. And if theres anything I can do to help, let me know. I live in Ohio, so PA isnt too far away.

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

sorry buddy, ive been the first in ine since the begining, ill be a beta tester if needed, we can be next to eachother in line, but you can't skip me, heh heh, no, for real though, it sounds like a great idea.