And simple translates to low cost to manufacture. The only way a turbo or supercharger made with an impeller could be cheaper would be because of the mass production that has been going on for years. Although it seems that a TT can be made for less even at low quantity if Frank can really make money off selling them to just the rotor heads for $800 a kit.

Not to mention the tech is just better, more efficiency, negligable lag, somewhat of a cooling ability, and no one will know it is there because it is quiet.

 

the proof will be in the pudding!


I hope so at least. I want to see this thing work so bad!

 

i like this so much, i have convinced my self to loose the idea of getting a gt35/40 and waiting for this

 

I'm with you OC, i want to see this working with some dyno runs. i got my fingers crossed.

 

Haven't posted here yet...but I'm following the action with immense interest.

 

kristopher_d; Remember that the RX7, great car that it is, is a discontinued model and of interest to a limited target market. That would be us, the enthusiasts. I am all for gung-ho free market, get the buyers for all they have, convince them of perceived value, who cares about a zero base secondary market when it come to the economy at large, but I have now seen you advocate, twice, that Frank "go for it", advising that everyone needs to make a profit, and charge as much as he can. I think your well-meaning suggestion is misplaced in this case. First everyone does not need t make a profit, that is what co-ops and clubs are all about, people with shared interests and enthusiasm working together to develop something that is good for everybody. I think that Frank should be applauded for his efforts and realization, as he stated himself, that most RX& owners are driving them because they love them; Rx7 owners at large are not big budget sports car builders. They are enthusiasts on a definite budget. I base my statement on driving RX's since 1972 when I first experienced the low cost RX-2.

BTW Frank, I think you will want to extend the air intake with a K&N style of free flow filter to forward of the radiator to bring in the coolest possible supply of fresh air. Frank, keep up the good work, yours is the best idea for enhancing the performance of the RX7 in a while. Coupled with free flow catalytic converters and exhaust your Tesla Bladeless Disk Type Supercharger should be just what the doctor ordered. As I stated in my email and previous posts, count me in for the Supercharger!!

Cheers everyone, lets encourage Frank, and support the project by committing to buy based on Franks offer to produce at or very near cost for our community.

 

Actually, I believe there could be long term gains from this exercise. Remind that the 2nd gen is the last Wankle car that was offered NA. Remind also that the soon to arrive RX8 is NA. Remind also about the talk about the 2004-6 re-introduction of the RX7 and Miata with the Renisis. And, remind that Mazda has stated on different occasions they have NO intention of offering the new Wankle with a BOOST option.

So, this work for our 2nd Gens might prove excellent basis to provide a kit for the next generation(s) of Wankle cars.

NOTE TO FrankGermano

I've PM's you a link to a site of a Guy that understands very well and has gone to great lengths to source suppliers for mounting brackets and related parts for the Nelson Paxton Super Charger kit. I hope it proves useful in this VERY much appreciated project of yours. When you're ready to start offering this kit, I'll be standing in line with this motley crew ready to purchase.

 

Hi Frank,

Please don't get me wrong. I think what you are doing is very commendable and hope that I did not come off as comdemning it in any way - exactly the opposite!

My only point was that the work required to turn an N/A into a forced induction vehicle (even using very efficient forced induction) is much greater than using something that is already set up for that. I have a supercharged truck and Rx-7 TII, and while I don't claim to be an expert, I do know enough to know that there are fueling, timing, compression, cooling, etc. issues to deal with besides the issue of upgrading the notoriously weak electrical system. Lots of turbo guys have already dealt with these issues (especially some of the 3rd gen single turbo guys) and so seemed to be a pretty ideal fit for something at this stage of the game, although I do realize that you would want to make this as widely available as possible to keep volume up.

Oh and I was just thinking of myself as I know that at some point my turbo will go and I will need a replacement >. I looked at the site and didn't see any reason why a replacement turbo unit couldn't be built - sorry that I said cartridge if that threw you.

On the plus side (for you that is) is that I hear tell that we may be looking at 42 volt systems in automobiles before too long. I'd think that your setup would fit right in with something along those lines.

Keep up the work and please keep us informed as to your progress. And thanks for all your efforts.

-W

 

holy crap that was a lot of reading!
Frank you the man!
haha

I've had my RX-7 for 4 years. Love it to death. All stock except for the rims. 1988 GX(canadian model) 93,400 kms (56,000miles). Very impressed with your idea, the tesla pump/engine is cool.

However I am worried about the idea to use an electronic setup with the RX-7s nutoriously crappy electrical system. I think many 2nd gen owners have had issues with re-soldering and bad grounds.

How many benefits are there to using an electric pump versus belt driven? The electric idea sounds really cool but will reliability of the unit be sacraficed? Oh yeah i've been to your website before looking for info on the tesla turbine when i was bored at school. I am aspiring to be an engineer still but currently working on my BASC in Physics. Man it's hard....

Good luck,
Eric

 

I am not advising Frank to charge an arm and leg. I just want to be sure he makes enough money to continue developing the product for other applications, and improved performance in this application. I don't want him to start selling these units at cost and be unable to continue operating his business do to lack of investors, etc. Investors like profit. The combination of engineering and mfg business involved should make the sale price of the unite 60% profit, 40% cost. This being a market entry product, it is common to cut margine b7 as much as 75%, me3aning the unit should be sold for a total of 13% over cost. Since most of the engineering work will be complete with the initial model, engineering costs may be ammortized across the life of the product line, reducing the cost per unit at market entry. I doubt, however, that this is the appropriate place to discuss economics, so I'll leave the cost issue alone from now on. I just wanted to make it clear that I am not advocating that parts suppliers/builder stick to us, just that they take care of themselves.

 

Hey Frank,

Are you going to incorporte your "Clapping-Plate-Compressor" into turbo models? or will materials costs be prohibitive?

 

There was a post by frank recently on his yahoo group ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTeslaTurbineList/ )
that i think everyone intrested in this supercharger should read. I feel it may determine the out come of this supercharger. Im not going to say anything about the nature of what frank has posted, because i think it would be best to let frank speak for himself, or to wait and let him post here.

as for the actual supercharger design frank has proposed. Yes, i think this has a good chance of working. But, i was origanally for the idea of powering it with an electric motor, but now, after doing some research (all thogh not very good research) it seems that having an electric motor that can both spin fast enough and have enough torque to power the unit effectivly is a pretty tall order. Motors are out there that can do this with no problem, but i think we are going to have trouble powering these, even with upgraded alternators and so on. I would liked to be proved wrong, but i think the alternators and stuff we will need is going to cost a lot and weigh a lot.

 

If you remember an earlier post by Frank, the motor only needs 1.2hp, and turns at either 10k or 20k RPM, so with some simple calculations, I was able to search globaspec.com and come up with a list of possibilities. After review the list, you'll see that the motor isn't really that difficult to come by.

http://motion-controls.globalspec.co...specsearchable

 

great, more people who want my email address to bombard me with spam. maybe i said it wrong that it was a tall order to find a motor that can do the job. Theres plently of motors. But can we power them? basiclly, we are converting machinal energy to electric energy then back to machincal for the actual spinning of the disks in the SC, and you lose power everytime its converted. its going to take a big alternator to power an 894 watt electric motor (1.2 hp). Plus, electric motors can require twice the amount of power just to get started. It seems like it would be a lot simpler to drive the SC with a belt, but that would sure make installing it more complex.

 

894 watts is the power output, the input is going to be much greater.

 

<bump>

it was falling into the bowels of the forum.

 

Hmm ~900 watts - Kinda like the starter on a high torque truck engine..

 

can the electrical system handle that?

 

i think its going to be hard thing to run. even with better alternators.

but i think frank may be having bigger unrelated problems right now.

 

Looking forward to more hard numbers.

Personally I think I'd move towards hydraulic drive if it needs much over 1hp. I'm betting that if/when something becomes available in a package proper for feeding a hungry rotary, it wouldn't be a big bit of work to change how the compressor is driven from electric to hydraulic.

Although if a 1.2hp motor can drive it, that should only show ballpark ~90 amp loads to the electrical system at max output. We're not at max output for very long!

Also waiting on subscribtion to the yahoo list to see what the recent news was. Problems not related to this project?? ?? ?? !

 

a hydraulic drive? what? how does this work?

 

every Supercharger that I have experienced has utilized either an internal gear and chain drive, as in the Harley-Davidson Magna-Charger, or a belt and pulley assembly as in more traditional automotive functions.

The setup in the Harley case delivers a constant 140% of the requisite air required at all times the boost pressure is set, at say 6 lbs to deliver enough boost to control compression at a predetermined and desired level, in the Harley case, less than 14:1. Result, Harley sound and feel, sport bike performance. The factory rev limiter is not altered, so as to prevent over revving and the accompanying engine meltdown potential.

My point, electrical is one thought, but why not use a pulley or gear drive tied to something that is already constantly rotating anyway? Thoughts?

Cheers,

 

Isn't the Magna-Charger a positive displacement (roots or twin-screw) system. Centrifugal systems, which this Tesla unit is, increase in boost exponontially. To maintain a linear Tq map it is neccessary to drive the the compressor independent of engine speed. To my knowledge, this requires an electric drive (though there may be other methods of transfering power to the compressor). Another advantage of the electric system is the in cockpit control of boost level. At cruising speed on the highway, give it just enough boost to achieve ideal efficiency. At idle it stop and go traffic, kill the boost all together. Lined up next a ricer, crank up the boost to you particular engines safe operating limit.

 

is there any reason why you couldnt modify an existing turbo to use a bladeless turbine and/or compressor? seems like it would be better in every way, if someone could make it work, they already have my money.

 

Hydraulic...Engine driven pump, then hydraulic pressure drives the motor.

Not sure how much more effecient it is than mechanical>electrical>mechanical but I know that it is.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/p...ess010273.html

http://www.caribbeanmotorsports.com/...g%20turbos.pdf Visual. Scroll down to HS6-HS10.

Similiar benefits as seen here. Can get enough power out of the drive system at idle to spool to full boost. Electro/hydraulic controls.

Most likely the stock power steering pump OR some vehicle's power steering pump would be suitable for the source drive.

R