rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

hey guys,

when it comes to electrical diagrams its all ******* greek to me. just wanted to ask a simple question and hope i get a simple answer to help me troubleshoot my issue that is still going.

i thnk i have narrowed down my tail light/dash cluster issue to just the underdash wire harness. now what i wanted to know is the flow of the current.

is it. Engine bay harness --> underdash harness --> headlight switch --> fuse box --> then to the tail lights? or am i missing something. cuz im not getting any current in the top two rows of my fuse box but the rest work. ima bout to get a dash wire harness and try it out, but i thought i would just ask anyways.

thanks in advance. let the flamming begin!

satch

iTrader: (1)

The row of fuses that starts with the Stop fuse on the left and ends with the Illumination fuse on the right gets its power from the W/R wire of the engine bay fuse box (60 amp BTN fuse). This W/R wire goes from the engine fuse box to the interior fuse box via the Engine harness only. Is this row I speak of the top row you speak of or the 2nd row?

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

ok here is what i do know. according the fuse box cover the very top where my spares are. the heater and defog work. http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d.../S4fusebox.jpg

so my top row would be the ones with stop, hazard,room, annt and illum do not have current running thro them, as well as the row below it. power st.(i dont have that anyways. no pump) i dont know what Engine (15A) is for, the car starts fine and runs fine, dont know what meter is for either, "turn" would be the turn signals i assume, i thoes dont work. they make a clicking noise but no lights. also the clicking sound goes faster when i have the head lights on than off. and i dont have power windows (manual). the 2 rows below that all have current running thro them.

now what is the w/r cables you speak of and what does it look like and how do i get to it?

satch

iTrader: (1)

W/R is a wire and look underneath the engine fuse box and you'll see it.

The Engine fuse provides power for the Main Relay, Circuit Opening Relay (provides power for the fuel pump), and the alternator. Your car cannot run w/o this fuse having power so something is definitely odd there to say the least. Meter fuse provides power to the gauges, cooling fan(electric), alternator warning light relay, back up light switch, idiot lights, cruise, alarm and A/C blower motor..

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

ok, do you think its my fuse box that's faulty? cuz my gauges work just dont have lights to them. the main relay and opening relay must be getting power or the car wouldnt start right? cuz i checked the fuel pump plug and im getting circut there.

satch

iTrader: (1)

The Engine fuse for example when pulled will have voltage on the metal tangs when a voltmeter is used and the key is turned to on. It's possible that some of the components/circuits have been rewired and this theory would hold if your Engine fuse actually doesn't have power to it.

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

ok with that in mind would it best for me to redo the dash harness?

satch

iTrader: (1)

First off there are various harnesses which run under the dash. There's the front harness, engine harness, emissions harness and so on. It would be best I think for you to diagnose why things are as they are and go from there. The W/R wire for example has constant voltage on it and there could only be one other wire that is W/R under the dash that also has constant voltage and that would be if you have ABS so it should be easy to find.

I shouldn't have to ask this but I must. Did you check the 60 amp BTN fuse in the engine fuse box to verify if it is good or not? Your second row of fuses won't have power if it isn't!

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

haha,

i know thanks for helping me. but yes i did check all the fues in the engine bay and they all light up. so with that said there could be a wire leading off after the fuse that is not connecting?

satch

iTrader: (1)

I would try to track down the W/R wire and if worst comes to worst then replace it with another wire (not hard to do). The W/R wire "should" be grouped together with the Black wire that delivers voltage to the two 30 amp fuses at the very top of the interior fuse box.

HAILERS

I think you might have missed out on something Satch said.

The row of fuses that starts with STOP get fed from the BTN fuse in the engine bay and have power 24/7.

The rows of fuses below that row that starts with STOP.......are all fed from the ignition switch and the key has to be ON for them to have power.

The row at the very top with the circuit breakers DEFOG and HEATER get fed by the same wire that feeds the ignition switch.........i.e. comes from the Main Fuse in the engine bay.

Series four fuse box cover attached....series five similar.

There is only ONE harness your concerned with. It is the ENGINE harness which is attached to the engine bay fuse box....battery........starter etc. That harness has the White/Red wire that feeds that row of fuses that start with the STOP fuse. There is no connector inbetween the engine bay fuse box and the interior fuse boxes top row of fuses.

FYI and to clarify.....the harness that has fuel injectors, water thermosensor, BAC etc on the engine is the EM harness not the engine harness.

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

Satch,
so if i follow that wire i should be able to see if its broken some where right? could a bad ground be causing this? there is one ground that i am missing. connection just right behind the top of the keg, its like just to the left of the oil filter.

Hailers,
should i just replace the engine wire harness, cuz i looked at the engine fuse box wires, some go to the batter and then drops down into a bigger set of collected cables that are being covered up with plastic or smth then it goes back into the firewall.

satch

iTrader: (1)

No, your problem is not from a bad ground. The ground near the oil filter that you speak of is likely the resistor for the oil gauge and is not contributing to your problem in any manner. The White/Red wire is shrouded within the covered harness you speak of and it only goes to one place, through the firewall. If you look where it goes through the firewall from the inside of the car you will find this particular wire. If by chance you are missing the W/R wire, which I don't believe you are, why would you replace the "whole" harness for the sake of one measely wire? Doesn't make sense.

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

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ok ok , i think im starting to get a better idea of it. i will check out the white and red wire. and see where it goes. you mentioned it was an easy fix? are there any details i need to know about?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Have you unfastened the interior fuse box so as to look behind it to see if the W/R wire is there or not? If by chance you can't find the wire, which you should, then as a last resort cut the W/R wire below the engine fuse box and solder in a wire of equivalent thickness and route it through the firewall to the interior fuse box.

The Black wire that provides power to the two 30 amp fuses at the interior fuse box should be next to the W/R wire as it comes through the fire wall as well as the Black wire that feeds power to the ignition switch.

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

Nah, i havent removed the fuse box yet, but i will do that after work and see what is behind it.
what if i check the and the w/r wire is there? probably wont be or what other reason would there be for it not to be getting current.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Poor connection to the fuse box. Severed wire. No voltage on the wire from the engine fuse box. Last one would be easy to check. Unbolt the engine fuse box and rotate it upside down and probe the back of the W/R wire with the red meter lead of the voltmeter and place the other lead (black) on the negative battery terminal and check for battery voltage (12 volts DC).

HAILERS

If the interior fuse box has NEVER been removed.............then I'd suspect the connection of the White/Red wire AT the engine bay fuse box.

Again, it's a straight run from the engine bay fuse box to the interior fuse box. No connections inbetween at all. None at all.

Kinda tricky, but maybe pull the white/red off the engine bay fuse box after you check and make sure it was not a crummy connection. Then jumper a wire from the batterys positve post to the white/red wire. THEN go to the interior fuse box with your meter and see if the power is now there at the interior fuse box top row. OR even easier............see if the STOP lights now work or if the HAZARDS now work or if the antenna now works or if the side lights now work..............that's easier than checking with a meter at the interior fuse box.

Then again as Satch metioned earlier........check and make sure you have batt pwer on the front leg of the BTN fuse when it's pulled out of the box. Should be there. If not.....there is the real problem.

As an aside....at one time I could pull both EGI fuse and my car started. Should not have started. Was because the maroon who owned it prior to me had mounted the engine bay box 180* out in the engine bay. Duh. IN other words I was not really pulling the EGI fuses but the ones at the other end of the box.

rotary_bünta

iTrader: (3)

ok i just wanna say thank you guys for your help. all the detailed information helped me narrow down my problem. and i realize that when it comes to electrical i really freaking suck. but again thanks for the added info.
after finally getting some afternoon time cuz i work and school 7 days a week. i pulled into my drive way popped the hood and stared getting busy. i took off the bat connection. and started with the fuse box under the dash tho. i have a cluster f*ck of wire dangling under the dash cuz the dash is falling apart but i do have them as neatly as could tied together. ( i got a new dash just needs paint and time ) anyways i started examining the fuse box and and found the w/r wire. tried my best to gently jiggle it around to see if would come off or smth, after 45min of that i when to the fuse box under the hood. found the w/r wire and followed it, it was wrapped electrical tap with all the other wires in one big one, then went down and met with the larger arrange of wires that are covered with plastic; i didn't want to even touch that plastic one in in fear of messing smth up. so i had to get a box cutter and gently undid the electrical taped one. i figured i could just wrap it back up. after i did that i found me burns or marks or any bad signs of cuts and what not. so i unscrewed the fuse box and started poking around, ive checked this area before and found nothing wrong but maybe im missed smth. as soon as i pulled the off the fuse box the w/r came out the connector that clips to the box. here my heart sank and my embarrassment kicked and self frustration kicked in when i realized how noob i am at this. lol

any way. long story short i fixed it and taped it back up along with the rest of the wires. sorry to have wasted your guys time over this silly matter. sigh.

at least now when i see a fellow rx7 owner that have not heard of rx7 club that are having car problems (yes Ive met 2 sadly) i refer them here.

thanks again guys.


on another note i do have after repairing this issue another one has come up. i feel that i may not be getting enough volts or smth is wrong in my grounds maybe, im thinking a new alternator will fix that as a start which i will buy after work today. cluster lights on the right side kinda fades out and then eventually have no lights and the left is nice and bright. also. Volt meter fluctuate when i turn on anything electrical, especially the air (even tho i have no AC but i still have air pump.) even the dash lights dim when i break. but like i said im gonna try the alternator 1st.

thanks again.

satch

iTrader: (1)

All in a day! If the cluster lights you speak of are your gauge lights then it is not likely a grounding problem. If you look at the back of the gauge cluster it looks like there is copper painted from one connection to another and this is how the current flows from one point to the other rather then wires being used. If one side works like a champ and the other half doesn't then it is not a grounding problem for if it were then all those small cluster lights would be problematic.

When it comes to your alternator it is best to rely on a multimeter for an accurate assessment of the voltage created than the gauge volt meter. With meter in hand and engine running place the red meter lead to the alternator where the single Black wire connects/bolts to the alternator and the black meter lead on the negative battery post and take a voltage reading. Should be 14.2 to 14.7 volts when the car is running and not overly hot. Also, check the battery voltage while running and not running. Should be within a half volt of the alternator voltage output when running and 12.5 volts when engine is turned off.

Below is a very helpful link to diagnose certain voltage problems related to the starting circuit. Watch it a time or two. There is a lot to be learned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry68G0C2Fyc