mrb455

I have a 88 n/a and I started it the other day and let off the key before it had got started real good and it coughed then quit, so I tried to start it again and the engine was locked up- it would not turn over at all but the starter was trying to turn it. So I raised the hood and grabbed the belts and tried to turn it by hand and it was locked up it wouldn’t turn either way. Then after several tries with the starter it finally turned slowly a couple of times then spun at the normal speed. By then it was flooded, but I managed to get it started but it felt like it was running on 1 rotor (no smoke from the exhaust) and would barely pull its own weight. I haven’t had time to check it but would like some ideas before I tear into it.

Stanello

iTrader: (1)

Sounds to me like an apex seal got rolled between the housing and rotor. At low engine speed, (cranking), it would be enough to stop the engine. Do a compression test on each rotor to make sure.

mrb455

Wouldnt it smoke if that were the case? I drove it 45 miles home after that and no smoke. once I got up to speed it would hold if there were no hills.

powrdby13B

sounds like loss of an apex seal to me
test it with a rotary compression tester (borrow from a mazda dealer). The two faces that have a compression of zero would be the part thats blown LoL
And depending on various circumstances, not necessarily. I drove a blown motor car 100 miles or so and it never smoked

mrb455

How can a seal do that I barely have a 100k on the engine and it has never been abused?

mwatson184

Don't jump to conclusions on the blown motor just yet. You could have fouled plugs from when it was flooded, or one of the rotor housings may not be completely unflooded yet. I've had a motors run on one rotor for a few minutes at a time and they eventualy clear themselves up. It's hard (or damn near impossible) to blow an apex seal when starting your car. The only thing that worries me is the fact that the motor was locked up, that could have possible killed a seal.

Marques

mrb455

Could it still be flooded after 45 miles of driving with the pedal on the floor just to keep a minimum speed? And is it possible that something happened to the injectors for one of the rotors or that a coil went out at that time. I'm just looking for ANY possibility other than a blown apex seal.

mrb455

I see that over 50 have looked at this thread, has anyone EVER had this happen to them?????

jono20

no not that Ive ever heard of. you got yourself one unique problem on your ahds my friend..


remove the spark plugs and I think the egi fuse too has to be removed, then crank the motor and listen for the puffs of air. 3 ina row is good, but if its like puff-chuh-chuh puff-chuh-chuh it means your blew and apaex seal. if its puff-puff-chuh its a side seal.

wish I could help more!

kontakt

All I can say is with my N/A when I started it and had it choke (pulled off start too soon as well), I laughed about it with my friend for a second, 'cause it was fairly ironic to the conversation we were having, and when I went to give it a go I had to pull the fuse, but it didn't crank strangely. Is it possible that it somehow had enough gas in it to hydraulic? maybe holding it wide open was dumping as much gas as it was getting out how it was running? my blind optimism?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Do a compression check, it's pointless speculating about anything until you do that.

KompressorLOgic

iTrader: (6)

yeah the motor "locking up" is a bad sign, you might of had a chunk of carbon come off or something, "carbon lock" or somethin like that, a seal could be stuck, theres various methods to attemp to undo a stuck seal. but before that.

do a compression test just to be sure of the health of your motor. you can use a piston tester, if you remove the shrader valve, and watch the bounces on the needle when cranking, look up how to do it. if you get something like 30 30 30 , or 30 30 90 or any bounces below like 65 then somthing is wrong.

or like me you get zero zero zero, then u know your moter ate all the apex seals

Stanello

iTrader: (1)

Do a compression test. I've driven close to 1000mi on a blown NA engine. I don't neccesarily believe that that is a smart thing to do, but I have done it. My compression results were 90-95-90 on the front and 0-60-0 on the rear. When the engine came apart, nothing was damaged more than any other blown engines I've seen.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

It sounds to me like somebody's engine died of boredom..

But again, we'll never know until you at least remove the plugs and listen for the puff.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

That bitch is blown. A seal broke just as it decelerated from running (for a second) and locked it up. By forcing it to turn (what else would a person do, though) you broke the seal loose from it's wedged position. The damage would have happened regardless. Yes, I've seen this before on shutdown and startup. Though rare, it does happen, and is the same failure that happens to mots rotaries while running...just that it happens to occur when there isn't enough momentum to shatter the seal and keep running, so it locks in place.

mrb455

Thanks guys, It doesn't sound good, I am going to check it out this weekend.

mrb455

I just checked my compression---- 0+0+0=0 That's what the rotor closest to the firewall has. SOOO!! I think I'm looking at a rebuild. I cant believe that something seemingly so insignificant can cause so much trouble. Are rotory’s that fragile?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

15-20 year old ones are, yes. Do you have any clue what this car has been through in it's life?

There are documented cases of these engines lasting well over 300k, when cared for from day one by one person.

These being 2 seat sportscars, expensive for their time, they weren't something that most people bought and kept...its more of a car to buy, have fun in, brag about, beat some mustangs, and then sell in favor of something more practical. So of course all of these cars are beat to hell by now, and have been abused time after tme. OF course everyone sells the car with the old line "never abused or raced, never seen winter, snow, rain, salt, humidity above 52%, etc." when they probably banged it off the rev limiter the day before.

mrb455

This car was owned by an accountant in AZ where I was living, I have all the cars records since new, tuneups, tires, paint job, brakes ect. This guy took the car to the dealer if it sneezed. He kept it in the garage, you know one of those hard to belive cases. But this time I saw the proof. BUT the facts are the facts, it needs a motor.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Dealership knowledge deficiencies aside, it does sound like this car was an exception. There is such a thing as being TOO eash on one of these cars, though, which leads to excess carbon buildup and power loss. Really I'd just chalk it up to an old car that needs an engine, often you can't know for sure what the reason was. All y ou can do is start fresh with a new engine and you know exactly what you've got from then on.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

My vote still goes for dying of boredom, Kevin