Standalone ECU thoughts
05-15-13, 10:03 AM
#1
Standalone ECU thoughts
I know this has been discussed a hundred times but I want advice on my particular situation.
Budget: $1000 for the everything needed
I understand that a thousand dollars for a standalone is low but I've seen others do it and that's what I'm limited to. I'm leaning towards building a Megasquirt but was wondering what other options may be easier to work with on my build.
I am building an S4 N/a large street port, medium exhaust port, headers, intake port matched, high flow intake.
I want a standalone to get the full potential out of my build. I also want it to be able to be reused if I ever decide to go hybrid turbo or to fully swap in a T II engine.
Please give thoughts. I know how to search.... I want opinions on what others would use, not specifications since I can find those myself.
Thanks in advance.
Budget: $1000 for the everything needed
I understand that a thousand dollars for a standalone is low but I've seen others do it and that's what I'm limited to. I'm leaning towards building a Megasquirt but was wondering what other options may be easier to work with on my build.
I am building an S4 N/a large street port, medium exhaust port, headers, intake port matched, high flow intake.
I want a standalone to get the full potential out of my build. I also want it to be able to be reused if I ever decide to go hybrid turbo or to fully swap in a T II engine.
Please give thoughts. I know how to search.... I want opinions on what others would use, not specifications since I can find those myself.
Thanks in advance.
05-15-13, 10:29 AM
#3
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the MS seems like the best option for that kind of budget. although the Rtek would work too
you can find used haltechs for that money, but the E6K is like a stone axe, primitive but reliable; it makes the stock ECU look like a swiss army knife and the E6X/E8E11's don't have the upgrades that make the platinums so nice, and they can be buggy as well.
the microtechs are also stone axes, and you can't use it on another car, unless you send it back to the shed it was built in. people really like em, but its because they have fewer adjustments, so there is less to tune, and this makes it easier.
you can find used haltechs for that money, but the E6K is like a stone axe, primitive but reliable; it makes the stock ECU look like a swiss army knife and the E6X/E8E11's don't have the upgrades that make the platinums so nice, and they can be buggy as well.
the microtechs are also stone axes, and you can't use it on another car, unless you send it back to the shed it was built in. people really like em, but its because they have fewer adjustments, so there is less to tune, and this makes it easier.
05-15-13, 10:32 AM
#4
there's only really 3 options for under $1k and they aren't the greatest options of course
microtech, just about $1k for the basic ECU with flying lead harness which reuses the pigtails for stock sensors. easy to set up and tune with but VERY limited for expandability and ability to save and load maps as well as AFR logging.
megasquirt, cheaper than the microtech but more difficult to setup and a steeper learning curve to build and tune with, more of the DIYer option. almost limitless expandability and can be used on any platform with the exception of plug n play units.
Rtek, the cheapest options but also the most limited. the easiest to install, setup and drive off with but also the utter most pain in the *** to make adjustments with. limited in injector sizing, uses stock AFM still, requires a palm pilot to tune with and has less adjustability than any other true standalone ECU.
other options which are close are haltech sprint, powerFC and adaptronic(the latter 2 are really only suitable for S5). but they all require some sort of adapter harness, map sensor, auxiliary sensors or wiring leads that will add another small chunk to the cost and push them over your budget.
microtech, just about $1k for the basic ECU with flying lead harness which reuses the pigtails for stock sensors. easy to set up and tune with but VERY limited for expandability and ability to save and load maps as well as AFR logging.
megasquirt, cheaper than the microtech but more difficult to setup and a steeper learning curve to build and tune with, more of the DIYer option. almost limitless expandability and can be used on any platform with the exception of plug n play units.
Rtek, the cheapest options but also the most limited. the easiest to install, setup and drive off with but also the utter most pain in the *** to make adjustments with. limited in injector sizing, uses stock AFM still, requires a palm pilot to tune with and has less adjustability than any other true standalone ECU.
other options which are close are haltech sprint, powerFC and adaptronic(the latter 2 are really only suitable for S5). but they all require some sort of adapter harness, map sensor, auxiliary sensors or wiring leads that will add another small chunk to the cost and push them over your budget.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-15-13 at 10:36 AM.
05-15-13, 11:18 AM
#5
Okay, well realistically I can make 1600 work. However, I need something that will work on the s4 n/a and not cause me purchase new injectors or anything like that. I was looking at the P1000, Sprint RE, and Megasquirt. Of course I like the P1000 but it's 2 grand.
The sprint RE: Does anyone have feelings on this one? It seems awesome for the price. However, It says it only works with high impedance injectors and I'm not a hundred percent sure but I think the s4 n/a runs low impedance if I'm not mistaken.
The megasquirt seems awesome but god forbid I fry that thing, If I get a megasquirt it'll have to be preassembled and will cost about 7-8 hundred with all the added bits and pieces.
Would it be worth it to just save for a P1000 full wiring harness with plug and play.? Or is the Sprint RE or megasquirt really worth the added time of wiring and tuning?
The sprint RE: Does anyone have feelings on this one? It seems awesome for the price. However, It says it only works with high impedance injectors and I'm not a hundred percent sure but I think the s4 n/a runs low impedance if I'm not mistaken.
The megasquirt seems awesome but god forbid I fry that thing, If I get a megasquirt it'll have to be preassembled and will cost about 7-8 hundred with all the added bits and pieces.
Would it be worth it to just save for a P1000 full wiring harness with plug and play.? Or is the Sprint RE or megasquirt really worth the added time of wiring and tuning?
05-15-13, 11:23 AM
#6
MECP Certified Installer
I "heard" you can squeeze out almost 50 more HP when running standalone with an NA. Wish i could afford one!
If I am wrong, please tell me to shut up as not to spread misinformation.
If I am wrong, please tell me to shut up as not to spread misinformation.
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05-15-13, 12:09 PM
#9
IMO, standalone isn't worth the effort for anything NA below a bridgeport. Just my personal cost/benefit analysis. For a streetport, you can probably get half the gains of a standalone with a simple SAFC. However, there is the benefit of a new wire harness rather than a 25 year old, heat-cycled one.
I think this is what you're referring to.
Rtek7 ECU Upgrade Detailed Information
They picked a specific point where the stock setup had a drastic dip in power. Max power was 135@6250 vs stock 123@5750. Max torque was negligibly changed. It does extend the powerband of that car, though. The statement is true, but a bit misleading.
Rtek7 ECU Upgrade Detailed Information
They picked a specific point where the stock setup had a drastic dip in power. Max power was 135@6250 vs stock 123@5750. Max torque was negligibly changed. It does extend the powerband of that car, though. The statement is true, but a bit misleading.
05-15-13, 12:18 PM
#10
What's the real benefit of using the RE over the Megasquirt? It's twice the price with limited expansion. Is it just the fact that it's already put together so there's less work involved? Or is there a REAL reason why It's better.
05-15-13, 12:23 PM
#11
I still have the engine apart and could bridge it while I'm at it but am honestly scared of the reliability of the engine heavily decreasing. If I'm going to go with a standalone though I may end up widening to a Bridgeport to gain added power before I reassemble.
05-15-13, 12:37 PM
#12
After many hours, replies, calls and PM's I've decided to go with the Megasquirt. The RE and the Squirt have to be wired in the same but the RE is limited. For half the price and more of my time I get a fully customizable ECU with unlimited support from all the guys who've built one. Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys.
Thread closed
Thread closed
05-15-13, 12:48 PM
#13
the megasquirt has a bit of following but i haven't gone that route because i feel it still seems a bit buggy compared to other ECUs still. i'm sure someone will come in and say it's as good as name brand and then some, but yeah.. i'm still not convinced.
name brand requires reputation to back a brand. megasquirt is as cheap as you can get with the options available, there's always an old saying "you get what you pay for" and that is R+D and cheaper components. some people have had great success, others wound up bald while trying to figure out issues.
megasquirt is to me like chinese parts, cheap but you can make it work IF you fully understand it to start with and can overcome the issues that arise.
name brand requires reputation to back a brand. megasquirt is as cheap as you can get with the options available, there's always an old saying "you get what you pay for" and that is R+D and cheaper components. some people have had great success, others wound up bald while trying to figure out issues.
megasquirt is to me like chinese parts, cheap but you can make it work IF you fully understand it to start with and can overcome the issues that arise.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-15-13 at 12:51 PM.
05-15-13, 04:09 PM
#14
the megasquirt has a bit of following but i haven't gone that route because i feel it still seems a bit buggy compared to other ECUs still. i'm sure someone will come in and say it's as good as name brand and then some, but yeah.. i'm still not convinced.
name brand requires reputation to back a brand. megasquirt is as cheap as you can get with the options available, there's always an old saying "you get what you pay for" and that is R+D and cheaper components. some people have had great success, others wound up bald while trying to figure out issues.
megasquirt is to me like chinese parts, cheap but you can make it work IF you fully understand it to start with and can overcome the issues that arise.
name brand requires reputation to back a brand. megasquirt is as cheap as you can get with the options available, there's always an old saying "you get what you pay for" and that is R+D and cheaper components. some people have had great success, others wound up bald while trying to figure out issues.
megasquirt is to me like chinese parts, cheap but you can make it work IF you fully understand it to start with and can overcome the issues that arise.
05-15-13, 05:49 PM
#16
I see that there's a Megasquirt pro which will cost about 1500.
So I've decided that if I go standalone at the moment then it'll be one of these 3:
Megasquirt II or III
Megasquirt Pro
Haltech Sprint RE
05-15-13, 08:04 PM
#18
"I see that there's a Megasquirt pro which will cost about 1500." (post above)
If I buy a preassembled MS it'll be the best they offer. Otherwise I'm mechanic and went to college for engineering lol. I can solder pretty well. It's the support of the unit and ability to screw up a new engine I have worries about.
If I buy a preassembled MS it'll be the best they offer. Otherwise I'm mechanic and went to college for engineering lol. I can solder pretty well. It's the support of the unit and ability to screw up a new engine I have worries about.
05-15-13, 09:20 PM
#19
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Get the Haltech and have support from the Dealer that sells it.(JJ..go Up to the Haltech section and "C" who sells the Haltechs..ahem!.)
I got the Ps1000 and I never regretted it.Only bad thing about it actually was having to pay Duty on it!
I got the Ps1000 and I never regretted it.Only bad thing about it actually was having to pay Duty on it!
05-15-13, 10:32 PM
#20
It must be getting late, I saw the word duty and was like "what's he mean by that?". I guess if I have the money I might as well do it right the first time. I emailed haltech and will contact some dealers ("C"). Thanks again for the input. I'll probably be torn until the moment I make an order though haha.
05-15-13, 10:44 PM
#21
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Duty as in Custom's fees..I am in Canada-stan Jack!..Land of the Free!!..Home of the beaver,where moose are nervous and rubbers sell for a dollar!
05-15-13, 11:01 PM
#22
Wait wait wait! the moose are nervous because rubbers sell for a dollar? what ? Just kidding. just kidding. I understood after a few minutes haha. I was able to fin "that guy" btw. I'll update once I hear back but should probably give this thread some rest as it had seen some serious action today.!
05-15-13, 11:10 PM
#23
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wouldn't you be nervous?
BC has good Weed and MOOSE..heh.
But I live in Ontario where we got Politicians and lots of Crap!..so either way,something is getting done with those rubbers!
Good luck to ya,I'm outta here too!
BC has good Weed and MOOSE..heh.
But I live in Ontario where we got Politicians and lots of Crap!..so either way,something is getting done with those rubbers!
Good luck to ya,I'm outta here too!
05-16-13, 10:11 AM
#24
Street price on the Sprint RE long flying lead kit is $890. All Haltech Platinum ECUs have a built-in 2.5 bar MAP sensor. That combined with the other factory sensors means you can install one without needing to purchase any additional sensors. The calibrations for the Mazda sensors are available in the Haltech software.
That said, I like to use the Haltech/GM coolant and air temp sensors. I simply like to use new where possible and it also allows me to use new connectors for those sensors since I don't have a source for new stock connectors for those two sensors.
The non-full-range TPS of the S4 is not a good option to use with any system. We always recommend swapping out the TPS and throttle body for the S5 versions for a bolt-in, full-range, linear combination. There are other, less expensive options that require fabrication that have been documented on this site. With the S4 TPS, you usually end up with a transient throttle (throttle pump) feature that works almost, but not quite, correctly.
The AEM EMS-4 is another, sub-$1000, option. ECU and flying lead harness coming in at about $990 street price.
PM me if you have any other specific questions.
That said, I like to use the Haltech/GM coolant and air temp sensors. I simply like to use new where possible and it also allows me to use new connectors for those sensors since I don't have a source for new stock connectors for those two sensors.
The non-full-range TPS of the S4 is not a good option to use with any system. We always recommend swapping out the TPS and throttle body for the S5 versions for a bolt-in, full-range, linear combination. There are other, less expensive options that require fabrication that have been documented on this site. With the S4 TPS, you usually end up with a transient throttle (throttle pump) feature that works almost, but not quite, correctly.
The AEM EMS-4 is another, sub-$1000, option. ECU and flying lead harness coming in at about $990 street price.
PM me if you have any other specific questions.
