MazdaRX7.ws

Can anyone help me figure out which stand alone would be good for my current set up as well as my future plans for my car.

One of the most important things I can stress here is that I want a stand alone that would be easy for me to learn to tune myself. I don't want to have to rely on a tuning shop to tune my car.

I currently have a 6port turbo with FMIC, BOV, Manual Boost Controller, stock n/a injectors(<--will be changed soon), walbro 255 FP. Currently n/a drive train.

In the future I am looking to build a engine with s5 na housings, t2 rotors, street port, fmic, upgrade turbo(<--not sure which one), t2 drive train, walbro 255 FP, upgraded injectors.

Did I miss any other important things I should consider when going stand alone?

I want a stand alone I can learn to tune myself. That is very important to me.

Thanks...

gxl90rx7

iTrader: (1)

rtek 2.1 should get you by, and its cheap. if you want to get a little more involved and have more capabiliity, cant go wrong with a haltech

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

yeah if you want something easy go with the rtek 2.1

MazdaRX7.ws

The reason I am going to rush to go stand alone is I have a 6 port turbo and I don't know if I have high compression rotors. I don't want to blow my engine. I know putting in a stand alone the car can be tuned correctly.

Now what is the main difference between the r.tek and haltek.. I am sure the haltek is more $$$$

Due to the economy I am faced with selling one of my cars. So I can get more for the rx7 but I am selling the grand marquis. This is going to be my everyday car because I don't have the heart to let it go... I just got it then lost my job.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Right now you better either stop driving this car until you get some larger (550 cc)) injectors. You must be running very very lean in boost. I assume you have the NA ECU as well. There was a thread about driving the a TII with an NA ecu. It apparently worked out ok as long as he babied it. If you don't this car will not be your daily driver-it will be another tragic underfunded failed project.

Seriously, good luck.

gxl90rx7

iTrader: (1)

I used to have an rtek 2.1 but switched over to haltech because:
stock sensor reads only 2 bar (up to 15psi)
AFM is inaccurate >300whp
cannot adjust closed loop settings, decel fuel cut settings, etc
doesnt support peak/hold injectors
cannot directly control fuel injection times, only a % from the stock map

haltech gives you a ton more control:

NotTTT

Motec has the best software for ease of tuning that I've seen, actually it has the best software period. However, some of them cost more than most FC's and more than some FD's. It's bucks but when you look at the problems with all the other ECU's

Haltech - known ignition pickup issues that have blown countless motors
meecrotech - ZERO factory support
Rtek - limited adjustability, although it is plug and play

Motec suffers from none of those. Hop over into the Motec section, there are two threads that should help you immensly, TitaniumTT's M800/820 thread, and stylEmon's M2R thread. The M2R is comprably in price to the Haltechs and are Rotary specific.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

No love for the megasquirt?

come on she'll get the job done and cheap too.

Yes megasquirt the Thai hooker of stand alones!

NotTTT

I don't know anything about the software of the MS so I didn't want to put it in there ... All I know is not only is it the Thai hooker but it's also the "Lego" of EMS's as well

MazdaRX7.ws

I am running a n370 ecu, n370ps and n370afm. all emissions removed, Now how does that affect me daily driving it? My injectors are red and round tops.....

MazdaRX7.ws

I tried editing my last post... I couldnt do it sooo...

Ok let me be more specific.

I am running a n370 ecu, n370ps and n370afm I am 99% sure the harness is the stock na harness, all emissions removed, Now how does that affect me daily driving it? My injectors are red and round tops..... According to the FAQs by iceman I do not have t2 injectors! I looked in the FAQs section and he gives a break down for the colors and tops for each year and model.

I am forced to sell one of my cars my grand marquis is a great car with only 84k fully loaded every option and it would make more sense to keep that car considering I can get more for the rx. I have a buyer for the rx at $4,000 the way it sits but I am losing a grand if I sell it at 4k. The grand marquis I have had for sale now for 4 days not one call on it and I was asking $3300 nego or best offer. 84k orig miles near mint interior with leather. It will break my heart to sell teh rx7. I love it even though I was told when I bought it that it was a t2 swap.

I planned on selling the grand marquis. I know my rx is not going to be as reliable as it could be with the 6 port turbo for a daily driver. I am scared of it because I am not used to it and not educated about the 6port turbo set up. I have owned 3 t2's in the past.

My car's current set up...
-6 port s5 series na motor
-s5 t2 turbo
-Just ordered the 6 port turbo LIM from jap2la today to replace what ever LIM is currently on the car
-Not sure of internals
-s5 t2 front cap
-n370ecu
-stock na harness
-n370 pressure sensor
-n370 afm
-walbro 255 fuel pump
-red round injector heads
-unknown front mount intercooler
-turboxs bov, turboxs boost controller
-NO BOOST GAUGE
-NO AFM GAUGE
-NO EKG GAUGE
-2.5 downpipe to 3 inch straight pipe some small silencer to apexi n1 cat back.

Can I get away with setting the boost controller to minimium boost and just drive it that way as a DD with out hurting the engine? I have a apexi s-afc2 in the car BUT it is NOT connected. I am not sure if I should disconnect the boost controller. I am not sure if the boost controller affects the waste gate. I thought the easiest thing would be invest the money into a stand alone now because I do plan on keeping the car and doing work to it a few years down the road anyways. I am just not sure if I can afford to do it now.

Do I really have to go stand alone to make this car reliable enough to drive everyday with out hurting the engine?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If I had to pick one ECU that is best for learning on, it is the Power FC, because there is so much information available on it and the installation is simple. It is basically a plug and play installation, especially compared to the other options (besides Rtek). Even with an n/a harness there is hardly any modification needed and it would all be done to the adapter harness instead of cutting up your factory one. It doesn't have some of the capabilities of the Haltech but it also doesn't have any of the infamous and potentially motor-blowing CAS trigger problems which require careful installation to avoid. It can also save maps (unlike the Microtechs that I am aware of) and there are a ton of basemaps floating around that are at least somewhat usable. The Power FC forum is also the most active EMS forum on this site.

Your OEM stuff (harness and sensors) does need to be in usable shape or they need to be replaced. I bought an uncut used T2 harness and had to make sure all my sensors were ok (although you have to replace the IAT and pressure sensor anyway).

I'm glad I learned how to tune on the Power FC, although sometimes I wish it had a bit more adjustability of, well, obscure things that a beginner wouldn't know enough to care about: BAC valve duty cycle control, O2 feedback switchpoints, and boost control PID or fuzzy logic settings.

Check out this document I made about running the Power FC on a 2nd gen:

http://www.geocities.com/arghx/PowerFC.FC3S.Tuning.doc

it gives a detailed explanation of all the tradeoffs with choosing the PFC.

BUT I see now that you are selling your daily driver. This is a horrible, horrible mistake, especially since you are planning on getting a standalone. No matter what anyone tells you, there is a great chance that your car will run far worse than it ran before on stock ECU, at least initially. All the driveability functions of a factory computer, the one that Mazda spent millions of dollars on, are gone. Instead you have to manually tune all aspects of driving. It is not an activity for someone without a daily driver. There will be times when you want to get as far away as possible from the damn thing and just drive something that runs like stock.

Often the people on here who are the biggest proponents of standalones have not actually tuned a car (with more than just a couple bolt-ons) completely from scratch, with no help whatsoever except for what's floating around on the internet. It took me 3 months and 50+ hours to get the low load, daily driving settings to run like stock. That includes getting the car to fire up quickly, getting it to idle stably during warmup and hot start without being pig rich and smoking, eliminating all sorts of hiccups, hesitations, and stumbles, and getting the AFR's to stay consistent when it's 30 degrees or 95 degrees out.

That, my friend, is the hardest thing about tuning--not the WOT timing maps, not getting a safe AFR under boost, but eliminating all the drivability problems OEM's spend a gazillion dollars on their factory ECU's to prevent, and doing so with consistent AFR's under all weather conditions. Getting the car to start and drive without an imminent blown motor is tuning only in the loosest sense of the word.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

I thought those were 550s which would not be stock na injectors as you previously mentioned

Maybe they are different in the later years?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Lots of options. Choose one using the following criteria:

-what you plan to do (and log) with the ECU
-what you use the car for
-what you can afford
-what you can use OR if you're not tuning it yourself, what the tuner you use will want.


ECU options:

-Haltech (i'd recommend staying away from the E6*HEX*)
-Microtech
-Power FC
-MoTeC
-Electromotive
-Pectel
-Autronic
-megasquirt
-and many others

No one can choose it for you, you need to match your goals/needs/budget to a box that suits you. And also bear in mind that the fanciest most expensive box in the world will do you NO good if its a)wired like **** b)being operated by someone who has no idea how to use it.

MazdaRX7.ws

Ok to be straight forward..

At this point I lost my job. I am not in debt. I have very little money in the bank. I would really like to try to avoid buying a stand alone because of the simple fact that if I could wait until my financial situation straightened out I would probably go for a microtech lt10. I know they are expensive but from what I have heard they are supposed to be a great stand alone for any rx7.

Now I am not sure if my car is relaible enough with the current set up for it to be a daily driver. The thing I do not want to happen is me leave the car the way it is use it as my daily driver and then end up with a blown engine and no car. Then have to dump money into a new engine.

Is there any way I can use my current set up with it being reliable as a daily driver?

If not I am not sure which stand alone would be best for me. I am not 100% sure what all the features are of each unit and even what they do. This is the first time I am going to be doing this with out using a mechanic. This is all new to me. I honestly have no idea what would be the best stand alone for my car. I know the final decision is up to me.

I guess my question is.. How reliable is the 6 port with turbo? Kahnartist just blew up his engine a few days ago. I am a newb to a 6 port turbo...Am I the next in line? That is my main concern. I really can't afford to do a stand alone right now but if I will prevent me from having to buy a engine 6 months down the road... Maybe I have to just do it now.

I really appreciate all the input and help with this. There is a guy Tom who is on here. Brklynrx7. He has a 6 port turbo set up with a megasquirt. He said it is very affordable and a great ecu. I never heard of it. It might be a good option for me financially but how good will it be for my car. Especially if I want to make changes to the set up later down the road. I think he said I can get one for under $500.00 as opposed to $900-$1100 for a microtech. I am sure that it can not be compared to the microtech lt10 though. I have personally learned first hand... You get what you pay for...


Oh I am not really looking to take my car to the strip. I am not a quarter mile guy I am more of a highway driver. I do like to chirp the gears and accelerate hard sometimes though. Nothing like the feeling of the turbo pulling hard. I am not much for lighting up the tires from a dead stop. But right now I am scared of the car so I take it easy. I am going to be cautious, I can not afford to break it.




.

MazdaRX7.ws

thanks for all the detail in your post. I am ssure I will understand more of what you meant with some of it once I learn some more. I did take the time to read your info on the link you supplied. Thanks I found it useful. I will definatley take the power fc into consideration.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

I went megasquirt, so far it seems pretty good although I have not used it on the car yet I have built it and have controlled it with my stimulator (it acts like all the sensors on the car). Also the only other things I have operated that even came close to a stand alone would be the rtek 2.1.

For you and your concerns, I would not get a stand alone. You will probably be more likely to blow your engine since you have no tuning experience.

Your best bet is to get an rtek 1.7 a pair of 550s and a pair of 720s. With that your car should be fairly reliable.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

A 6 port turbo has to be done right, or not at all.

Some bandaid's you can try for now: (from the KahnArtist thread)
Retard the CAS a few degrees. Your car will run and sound like **** because of it, but you will have an extra layer of timing protection.
Avoid fuel cut at all costs. Apparently, that is what caused KA's engine to go.
Verify which injectors you have in the FAQ. If they are not at least 4 x 550 cc, go and buy some.
You can try a Megasquirt as a cheap solution, but also remember to factor in labor costs, unless you plan on wiring it yourself. Cross Rtek off the list, there's no direct application for you car with it, so you may as well go standalone.
Turn the boost controller to minimum, so the turbo is running off wastegate.
If you go standalone (which you should), sell the SAFC2 for some cash.

If you go standalone, this car needs to be tuned by an experienced tuner on the street / dyno, and you better get yourself a boost gauge, wideband, EGT gauge ASAP. Hell, even if you don't get a standalone, but get something with adjustability, it still needs to be tuned by someone with experience. Until then, baby the car, avoid low rpm/ high load situations, such as bogging the car in 4th or 5th at below 2k rpm.

Let's face it. You have zero tuning experience. Don't skimp out on the money for experience tuning. Trying to stay cheap costs more in the long run.

Hell, the best thing to do, if you are very concerned, is to not drive. Remember, a Metrocard only costs $2.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

yeah I forgot he is 6 port, sorry

to be honest if you can get away with not having to sell either car you would be better off just not driving the 7 until you have the cash to do it right

MazdaRX7.ws

I totally agree with what you said about the 6 port having to be done right.
Now I can afford to get a megasquirt. But how do I know which one to get?

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Ask BklynRX7, he should be able to point you in the right direction.

NotTTT

A) Microtechs are not expensive.
B) There is no great ecu for a rotary. The aftrmkt ECU only does what you tell it to do.

Sure there is, take the turbo off............................ I'm not kidding

It's not about a 6-port with a turbo, or a 4 port with a turbo, or a p-port with a turbo, or a renni with a turbo, it's what you're using to control the fuel/ignition and monitor it (or in your case, lack of monitoring) The problem here is that you're using an n/a ecu that cannot properly control, adjust mainly the ignition. A standalone will do this, but as metioned earlier, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll probably pop that as well unless you're incredibly safe, methodical in what you do.


Or maybe take the turbo off and drive around n/a with n/a injectors and and n/a ecu and don't worry about it.

I know Tommy personally. He has been around rotarys and tuning for quite some time so his knowledge and experience really can't be compared to yours, sorry. The megasquit, I don't know anything about the software but I know you actually build the ecu yourself, that was my lego comment. If you want to wire the whole thing yourself, solder stuff to circuit boards etc etc etc, then fine, by all means. Or try to by a used EMS with a harness already wired up.

And again, microtech is NOT a great ECU. Have you ever spoken to the owner of microtech? What about a few of thier guys in AU that are actually inside the co? I asked the owner a very specific question, can your ECU do this and this at the same time. You know what I got for an answer? I DON'T KNOW. There is virtually NO "factory" support for microtech.

One more comment about microtech, the pro that I bought my ecu from who is a dealer for two brands - haltech and Motec, I asked him about microtech before I did my own research into it (nosing around the forums, calling them directly) He said, and I'll never forget this - If you fill it with concrete it would probably make a decent doorstop, but knowing microtech it would probably fail at that too



Meh, people are too scared of "6-port turbos." What if you had a 6-port turbo with 8.5:1 rotors and and a Motec M880? Would you be afraid then? The problem, as I see it, with 6-port turbos is people cut corners where they shouldn't. They don't get bigger injectors, they don't run standalones, they don't monitor engine vitals (L, EGTs etc etc) and then they scratch their head and bitch when the engine blows..... DUH!

Tommy's is running strong no? Oh wait, he did all the things that most don't do

Roen

iTrader: (2)

His is running, but that's because he has a standalone and it's at a shop awaiting dyno tuning. It starts and runs fine though.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

2 bar is 29lbs of boost, not 15.

paying someone who has a solid reputation to tune your car pays off, that being said the first thing you do is find what tuner in your area has that reputation, then find out what THEY like to tune with, ask them questions. They will help you with much more then just tuning, they will also advise you on set up and future support as well.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

good call on just taking the turbo off, it sounds like that might be the best solution for now.

Megasquirts definitely have a difficult learning curve, you really have to understand every aspect of tuning and the way your fuel and ignition systems operate to get it working properly. As far as building it is concerned, I found it very challenging, the soldering was easy, but trying to figure out exactly what components you need to install and add for a rotary was kinda tricky, and to be honest im not even sure I have it 100% right. I'm getting ready to install it in the car as soon as the snow melts and it seems like the software is pretty straight forward. I figure on it taking me about a week of tuning before I can even safely drive this thing up and down the road and then to then dyno.

So far the standalone has been the most difficult part of my build hands down.