Smog pump-pressurized Oil injectors
08-16-05, 04:45 PM
#1
Thats not an FC...
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Smog pump-pressurized Oil injectors
has anyone Ever thought about this?
i posted up in Rotary performance about using the smog pump to pressurize the oil resivoir on a 2-stroke converted car. itd create a postive feed to the OMP for sure. and i noticed that on the thread about rebuilding the OMP lines, the author mentioned that he found one of the vaccum hoses had just broken away from the injector. i dont think this would render the injector functionless, it would just admit unfiltered air to the intake runner. the vaccum inside of the intake runner developed by the engine's operation would draw air thru the vaccum line, or atmosphere in his case. this controlled "leak" or air bleed would help disperse the oil into the intake runner and air intake charge. however, i was just thinking, would it be beneficial to increase the perceived atmospheric pressure feeding the oil injectors. instead of 14.5 PSIA flowing thru the injectors to disperse the oil, would there be any positive results if there was say, 21PSIA pressurizing the oil injectors? would it disperse the oil better into the air stream for improved oiling of the apex seals? if it disperses the oil better, is it feasible to expect improved apex seal wear and longevity?
thanks
chris
i posted up in Rotary performance about using the smog pump to pressurize the oil resivoir on a 2-stroke converted car. itd create a postive feed to the OMP for sure. and i noticed that on the thread about rebuilding the OMP lines, the author mentioned that he found one of the vaccum hoses had just broken away from the injector. i dont think this would render the injector functionless, it would just admit unfiltered air to the intake runner. the vaccum inside of the intake runner developed by the engine's operation would draw air thru the vaccum line, or atmosphere in his case. this controlled "leak" or air bleed would help disperse the oil into the intake runner and air intake charge. however, i was just thinking, would it be beneficial to increase the perceived atmospheric pressure feeding the oil injectors. instead of 14.5 PSIA flowing thru the injectors to disperse the oil, would there be any positive results if there was say, 21PSIA pressurizing the oil injectors? would it disperse the oil better into the air stream for improved oiling of the apex seals? if it disperses the oil better, is it feasible to expect improved apex seal wear and longevity?
thanks
chris
08-17-05, 08:35 AM
#3
Seduced by the DARK SIDE
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You might need some way to regulate or at least switch the forced oil injector bleed air, so it only feeds when the throttle is open.
The same setup could be used for the fuel injector air bleeds also.
Apex seal longevity is not an issue in the stock Mazda roraries, unless you detonate it.
Let us know if it works, and if it helps gas mileage.
The same setup could be used for the fuel injector air bleeds also.
Apex seal longevity is not an issue in the stock Mazda roraries, unless you detonate it.
Let us know if it works, and if it helps gas mileage.
Last edited by SureShot; 08-17-05 at 08:39 AM.
08-17-05, 09:04 AM
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Thats not an FC...
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Ted, this car isnt worth the effort it would take to premix the fuel at every fill up. in contrast to that, i would like to order an OMP adaptor plate from Rotary aviation so that i can plumb in an external oil resivoir. this way, i can keep synthetic in the crank case and use api-tc 2-stroke oil for the injectors.
the detonation is a good point. force-feeding air into the pipe that distributes metered/filtered air to the oil and fuel injector bleeds could cause a lean condition since there will be more air entering the engine via 8 "leaks". but, on the other hand, all this air could be pulled from the TB inlet pipe, Post AFM. so any air that is pulled thru the smog pump, pushed thru the pipe and distrubuted to the oil and fuel injectors would ALL be metered and accounted for.
now, if we force fed metered air past 8 leaks, it COULD cause the idle to be high... it would act like another BAC. more air and more fuel than the engine Thinks its admitting could lead to that. at any other rpm point, would it make it leaner or richers... or stoicher? its adding air, but its been metered, so that means there is fuel to go along with that air, right? with more air and more fuel, wouldnt that equate to more power? at first thought, id say no, just because it doesnt seem possible... but, more oxygen and more fuel would mean more power. what if force feeding the air into the 8 injectors increases the over-all amount of air and fuel entering the combustion chamber. this in effect would mean that the efficiency would be increased to some extent. all the inherent design flaws and pumping losses created by the inlet tract would be bypassed or circumvented by admitting pressurized air into 8 points which are downstream of the VDI, UIM, Plenum and TB.
compare and contrast?
thanks
chris
the detonation is a good point. force-feeding air into the pipe that distributes metered/filtered air to the oil and fuel injector bleeds could cause a lean condition since there will be more air entering the engine via 8 "leaks". but, on the other hand, all this air could be pulled from the TB inlet pipe, Post AFM. so any air that is pulled thru the smog pump, pushed thru the pipe and distrubuted to the oil and fuel injectors would ALL be metered and accounted for.
now, if we force fed metered air past 8 leaks, it COULD cause the idle to be high... it would act like another BAC. more air and more fuel than the engine Thinks its admitting could lead to that. at any other rpm point, would it make it leaner or richers... or stoicher? its adding air, but its been metered, so that means there is fuel to go along with that air, right? with more air and more fuel, wouldnt that equate to more power? at first thought, id say no, just because it doesnt seem possible... but, more oxygen and more fuel would mean more power. what if force feeding the air into the 8 injectors increases the over-all amount of air and fuel entering the combustion chamber. this in effect would mean that the efficiency would be increased to some extent. all the inherent design flaws and pumping losses created by the inlet tract would be bypassed or circumvented by admitting pressurized air into 8 points which are downstream of the VDI, UIM, Plenum and TB.
compare and contrast?
thanks
chris
08-17-05, 09:49 AM
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I'm an old school "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" guy.
When I pulled my emmissions stuff, I kept the stock injector air bleeds.
But - If some positive pressure at the air bleeds will increase mileage, I'm listening.
When I pulled my emmissions stuff, I kept the stock injector air bleeds.
But - If some positive pressure at the air bleeds will increase mileage, I'm listening.
08-17-05, 10:26 AM
#6
Engine, Not Motor
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The system is already set up like this. The so-called "vacuum" lines are actually plumbed to the atmosphere before the throttle bodies. As the intake "chamber" is under vacuum, atmospheric pressure forces the oil through the injector.
08-17-05, 10:38 AM
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lol... mileage increasery.. i wish there was a percievable difference. some how, im not sure if ill be able to verify mileage or performance increase. especially considering ive done a bunch of things at once. i mean, i could try to get a mileage profile of how the car currently sits w/ all air bleeds in stock configuration. then i could get a mileage profile of how the car will be w/ forced air bleeds.
FYI, there is 151k on the clock of S w/ the stock motor. if the motor takes a **** soon hereafter, i wont be sure if it was the vac removal, acv removal, 6pi removal, manifold porting, water inside the ports/rotor housings, pieces of carbon that flaked off the secondary/aux ports while i tried to clean them out, etc.
actually, when i plumb the output of the aux/smog pump, i could Tee the releif silencer into the output before it feeds the air bleed dist pipe under the UIM. the only down side is that i cant put alot of pressure into that pipe now... i kinda sorta forgot to put a clamp on the hose. the only way i can put alot of pressure into that hose is if i pull the intake back off, replace the hose w/ reinforced bashits and put a worm-screw clamp on it. i have a feeling the stock stuff would burst over 7-8psi, especially after its hot. ahhh cripes.. i guess thats what happens when you pull an all-nighter; you forget simple and important ****.
FYI, there is 151k on the clock of S w/ the stock motor. if the motor takes a **** soon hereafter, i wont be sure if it was the vac removal, acv removal, 6pi removal, manifold porting, water inside the ports/rotor housings, pieces of carbon that flaked off the secondary/aux ports while i tried to clean them out, etc.
actually, when i plumb the output of the aux/smog pump, i could Tee the releif silencer into the output before it feeds the air bleed dist pipe under the UIM. the only down side is that i cant put alot of pressure into that pipe now... i kinda sorta forgot to put a clamp on the hose. the only way i can put alot of pressure into that hose is if i pull the intake back off, replace the hose w/ reinforced bashits and put a worm-screw clamp on it. i have a feeling the stock stuff would burst over 7-8psi, especially after its hot. ahhh cripes.. i guess thats what happens when you pull an all-nighter; you forget simple and important ****.
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