archaphil

iTrader: (1)

just popped back in. also now waiting.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Car caught fire and burned Sienfeld's house down? Story and drama over?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Lol!








Timing on a piston engine. Jesus Christ!

clokker

iTrader: (2)

No cars were injured, no houses destroyed, no cars running.
There was some drama.

Let me set the scene:
Sigfrid lives in a nice, upscale neighborhood...very quiet and neighborly.
Since I've spent so much time over there I even get greeted by the mailman, who stops to chat about the car.
Nothing much of note seems to happen.

So yesterday, like many before, I'm in the open garage- muttering to myself, drinking coffee and smoking weed.
I actually was doing exactly that...just loaded and lit a bowl...when I hear an "Excuse me, sir?" from the door and turn around to see a cop.
OK, this is awkward.

He asks if a MR. "X" from two doors down is home and I explain I don't live there, have no idea if Mr. X is home or even who he is and haven't seen anything since I arrived. Turns out they're trying to serve a warrant.
For the five or so minutes we're chatting, I'm holding a pipe of burning Girl Scout Cookies and he doesn't say a word.
He thanks me and leaves.

I walk out on the driveway and see three cruisers, with a couple of officers talking.
Go back in the garage and a few minutes later I start hearing increasing radio chatter and see another cruiser pull up.
Then another.

Then my guy comes in again and says they might have a potential standoff situation developing and maybe I'd better leave because there could be a perimeter set and I'd be stuck inside.
Since I didn't fancy that, I left.

Apparently nothing happened, no mention in the news.

About the car...
First, let me show you what I'm working with:





That right there is the entirety of the instructions for installing the drive spindle.
Seems pretty straightforward really, don't you think?
I'm particularly fond of the "11:25" clock analogy, which would be quite informative if they told you where 12 and 6 o'clock were.
Which they don't.

I repinned it 18 times (because sometimes you just end up in the same place as before) and tried starting six times.
She runs...but barely.
It might even be worse than before.

I'm just spinning my wheels...either S. comes up with some ideas or we find a new set of eyes to look her over, cause I'm getting nowhere and think I'm familiarity blinded. It may be something stupidly simple but I'm apparently incapable of seeing it.

What happens next is up to Sigfrid.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

maybe you're supposed to install it AT 11:25? sort of like installing the battery on an FC at 1pm, or 12:55 if you're one of those people...

really though those instructions make no sense at all.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

That is some pretty messed up directions. The hands on all the clocks I have are at the same place at 11:25 am and 11:25 pm. I don't know. 12:00 is always up. It's all I got for you.

I know you have a custom plug wire set-up that prevents a lot of turning of the distributor but, did you try checking back to the cap, TDC comp stroke to see if you were close or to which side of the #1 cap location you installed it?

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

So the distributor drive is already installed in the engine, and you're installing the oil pump with the drive gear for the distributor drive?

Could you maybe put some vice-grips on the distributor drive to hold it in place at 11:25 (like 11:30 wasn't precise enough...) while installing the pump? Basically, stick the pump in, see if it feels like it wants to go in & mesh, and if not, pull it out, rotate one tooth, and try again until it seems to go together happily?

Is that long shaft what gets driven by the crankshaft? That long shaft directly drives the oil pump, and the sleeve with the gear that the lower arrow in EM107 points to drives the distributor shaft? How do the long shaft and the sleeve fit together? Are there any internal gears or dog-teeth that you're aligning there in note a? I'm just trying to get an idea of how this whole assembly goes together

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The long spindle with the drivegear is one piece, keyed on both ends.
Slip the bottom end into the oil pump and align the punch mark on the spindle with the hole in the oil pump boss. Then rotate out of alignment by one tooth (counterclockwise) and feed it up from the bottom of the engine. As the drive gear engages the helical gear on the crankshaft it will rotate back slightly and you end up with the "11:25" alignment.

I decided the whole "11:25" thing was bullshit and was just dropping in the distributor and seeing where the rotor ended up.
In theory, with the crank pulley mark lined up with TDC and the lobes of the cam at #1 piston are in the "rabbit ears" position (one lobe pointing at 10 the other at 2, which indicates the compression stroke), the distributor rotor should be pointing at the #1 wire tower on the cap.

And it did...first time.
Car would barely start and ran anemically.
Then I tried advancing and retarding the spindle one tooth in either direction, which would put the rotor either slightly ahead or behind the wire tower/contact.
Even worse.
Then tried TWO teeth off in either direction, still nothing.

Since I was working alone, this process involved crawling under the car, removing the four bolts and dropping the oil pump and spindle (the pump being full of oil naturally and since it's mounted at an angle, you lose about a half cup every time), lining up the spindle marks and then applying the desired offset and finally, feeding the spindle back up into the front cover, using one bolt to hold it in place. Then crawl out from under and look down at the spindle from the distributor mount and see where you ended up. If it's good...back under the car to fully bolt in the pump and then crawl out again and try to start her.
I did this eighteen times.

This why I no longer feel confident I can fix this...there is clearly something very wrong but I just can't seem to find it and I can honestly say I've tried everything I can...multiple times.
Repeating yourself hoping for different results is NOT the definition of insanity but it describes bullheaded stupidity pretty well.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yeah something obvious has to be wrong, everything is pretty much. doesn't help that this simple piston engine is the most complex thing in the world... 11:25? i wonder if the japanese manual says that. the US FC manual has all these blank spaces where the Japanese FC manual has words/specs.

have guys verified that the engine is actually at TDC when it says it is? have you tested for vacuum leaks? grasped at straws?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Some American engineer must have told a translator that "You need to explain how to clock it when installing".

Craze8

That looks more like 11:30/12ish in the photo. No wonder its such a pain in the butt >.<

cluosborne

At this point, I'd probably say find someone who knows these engines to help.

That said, great work.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

When you were timing the engine, did you happen to take any pictures of the crank & cam lobe & sprocket positions? Have you dropped a ratchet extension or something similar in the engine to make sure that the #1 piston really is at TDC when setting the cam timing? Maybe do the same thing with an indicating gauge on the rocker arm to see what crank angle each cam starts actuating the valves?

I'm just thinking along the lines of maybe the cam sprockets or crank pulley were replaced or the wrong ones used at some point in the rebuild before you got the engine? There may have been differences year-to-year or something?

Just trying to come up with explanations if the engine ran better with the cam timing before you re-set it a few days ago...

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

This is some funny **** right here. In fact, the funniest I have read today *tips hat kindly*.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

So law enforcement got used to recreational marijuana pretty quick, eh?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I'd love to take the front cover back off, clean everything up, get new gaskets and then watch as someone else put it back together. Maybe see what I'm doing wrong.

Appreciate the sympathy but can take only cold comfort...she doesn't run after all.

The inconsistent and incomprehensible results have had me going for the last eight weeks.
As for the parts, anything is possible but I doubt they're wrong for the engine. They are clearly OEM but I'm not even sure how to tell if the sprockets/cam are original to this engine.



As a white senior citizen, my interactions with John Law are vanishingly rare, so I can only speak to this one interaction but yeah, I suppose they have. Hell, half that neighborhood would fail a **** test.
Absolutely none of the dire predictions made by opponents have come to pass, it's basically a non-issue as far as I can see. I've had a red card (medical) for five years so he couldn't have done much to me even if recreational hadn't passed.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Must have been a fu*k up in translation. Looks like the slot is at 11 and 5 'o clock and they said '25' instead of 5. Then wrote 11:25. Crazy.

Make sure the sprockets aren't backwards. Like, the spoke side facing you isn't supposed to face the head/block. If they have a mark only visible on one side, then you can't put them backwards (you won't see the mark), but if it's like an arrow sticking in between the spokes, then it may be possible to put them backwards, unless they're not symmetrical (i.e. the hub).

But the advice re: finding top dead center with a wire on cylinder 1, then with valve cover off making sure the valves aren't being pushed (cams/lifters NOT under pressure), then aligning the dizzy to have the rotor pointing at cylinder 1 seems like a good back-to-basics-right-to-the-point way of doing it.

But seriously, just get a guy who knows with fresh eyes. Like put a request out on the local section of a z forum or something.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

good thought! i've seen people (i've been that people, actually) to put the CAS gear on backwards, and it still works ok, but the CAS ends up in a different place, as the teeth are off when its backwards

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Use a piston stop to check the mark on the pulley. No need for valve cover removal. I made a "good one" out of an old spark plug but have used really poor ones in that past that, if careful, will work. Basically, after removing all plugs, have a friend stick a rod through the #1 spark plug hole and apply sideways pressure (I've even used wood or plastic round stock, just don't break it). Carefully rotate to touch one way and then the other, marking the pulley at each stop. The TDC mark should be right in the middle of the marks.

If the pulley mark is good find TDC compression stroke by having a friend bump the starter while you put your thumb over the spark plug hole. If all plugs are out this can be done with hand rotation. You'll know when your on compression stroke.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The crank pulley is absolutely correct- when the keyway is at 12 o'clock ( here we go with the clock **** again...), the piston is at TDC.
I confirmed this when the oil pan was off and the crank could be viewed from below (I wasn't specifically looking for TDC then, more checking the bores for any sign of damage but it WAS at TDC).

Pulling the valve cover to check the chain/cam is no big deal really.
Because of the tilt/lean of the engine, oil tends to pool at the passenger side rear corner of the head and I'd applied sealant to the gasket there to squelch any seepage. I was only trying to preserve the seal and the gasket, which I suspect will tear as it's removed.
Now I don't care...if it leaks, fine, long as it runs. A new gasket is $10.

Sigfrid carved out fours hours of car time from what is surely an insane schedule.
My plan is to assist but NOT direct him as he attempts to set the timing. See if he does something differently than I.
Like be successful.

I might also get some idea of what he plans to do with the car/project.

Viewed objectively- and solely from his perspective- selling her off would seem the most logical move. I would be gutted but it's really his best move.
But what a tough sale it would be.

Seen through the eyes of a prospective buyer, she's a temporarily painted non-runner with no (installed) interior and a weird, completely unknown electrical system.
I might consider such a car (assuming I had funds) but would low ball the offer as aggressively as possible.

Anyway, we'll see.

And now for something completely different...
I'm wondering how a voltmeter would react if used as a fuel level display.
Obviously an ohmmeter works ( see the "No ***** Given" FB) but I wonder of a voltmeter might show enough sweep to be useful.
The voltmeter would be powered as normal but the ground would go to a two position switch.
One side would ground the gauge direct and show battery/system voltage, the other position would ground through the fuel tank sending unit and (hopefully) show fuel level.

Any idea if this would work before I hack in and see?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

What a grand day yesterday was, almost December and over 70°...just superb.
And yes...she runs!
RUNS! RUNS! RUNS!

Hooray!

We began with timing, pulled the valve cover (and saved the gasket!), went through all the checks and Sigfrid decided it was spot on and did not need changing, so we never pulled the oil pump (whew).
Car ran poorly.

Long story short, we have a fuel issue.
Either supply or return or the pressure regulator...not sure which, but we have a problem.

If the regulator pressure is cranked way down and the thermosensor is unplugged (ECU defaults to assuming the engine is warm with no signal from there), she runs like a top.
Or a real car.

Unsure how much gas we had, trips were limited to the immediate area but we both finally got to experience the Z under its own power.
And it was great.

Sigfrid had only four free hours, so work was cut short but I'll return next week to check out the fuel system and see what's going on.

We pretty much ran her out of gas, so the first move is to check the inlet/outlets from the tank and then verify flow through the lines but we both suspect the problem is going to be the Ebay Chinese pressure regulator...I'll just do the cheap stuff first to verify.

What a bloody relief.

88fc3sT2

iTrader: (1)

Nice! Glad to hear she's finally moving!

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

What is the range of resistance that the fuel level sender has, from full to half to empty? I'm sure we can come up with a circuit that'll do what you need it to. A volt-meter and an ohm-meter are basically the same thing, so it shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a circuit.

Fantastic news on the timing though! Its always nice to get reassurance that you haven't gone mad.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear good news!

clokker

iTrader: (2)

That info is in the FSM and although I can't recall them offhand (180 full > 30 empty?), I do know that Mazdas are the reverse of pretty much everyone else.
I figured that the gauge would read backwards in FUEL mode, the question is would the sweep be wide enough to be useful?
This is but a "wonder if" exercise at the moment, probably not something I'll pursue seriously.

If this all comes down to a clogged fuel line, I'll be simultaneously ecstatic and appalled.
And relieved and sheepish.

And more determined than ever to get rid of the entire horrible system.