Impreza2RX7

My friend just traded his MKIII Supra for a GXL with a TII swap. Supposedly it had a fresh rebuild and just needed a starter. He swapped out the starter today, and it still wouldn't start, it just clicked. The guy previously told him that all of the rebuilds that he had completed needed to be towed behind a vehicle and started due to hard starting, so my friend attempted that, but it would just lock up the rear wheels. It also ended up killing the new starter. Any suggestions?

WAYNE88N/A

Wow...Get a 19mm socket (or 3/4") and see if you can turn the engine by hand from the front pulley bolt (the BIG one), clockwise, viewing from the front of the engine...If you can't turn it with a 1/2" breaker bar or so, something's wrong...

Impreza2RX7

Nope, wouldn't turn over with a breaker bar either.. I have no idea what it could be personally, I was under the impression that rebuilds can have a hard time starting sometimes, but not wanting to turn over is baffling me..

Huero

Yeah something is definately wrong you should get that checked out, before you cause any more damage to the internals.
Good Luck

drago86

I'd pull it and crack it open to see what the idiot assembled wrong.

marlaman

I'd assume the guy who sold it to you lied. For a rebuild to seize you'd really have to screw something up pretty badly. (i think) are you 100% sure it's a rebuild? every 7 i've ever bought has magically had a fresh rebuild. and the longest one of those 7's has lasted is 3 weeks (yes i drive way way too hard.)


Matt

i'm definetly not a rebuild expert. i'm gonna stay out of these threads until i get at least one build under my belt.

Impreza2RX7

It's not my car, I wouldn't buy a non-running 7 unless I was planning on putting in a fresh rebuild myself. Well, I guess he's going to have to talk to the person he traded, since the guy dosent have the title for his Supra yet, but he has the title for the 7.

razorback

probably stuck sideseal, or jammed apex seal

WAYNE88N/A

There actually are a couple of ways to get her seized up during a rebuild (I played with mine a little, he he). One way is to put everything together, including the rear iron, and turn the e-shaft just a bit before putting the rear stationary gear in, so that you're a rotor gear "tooth" off. She'll turn for about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn, then lock up tighter than $hit.

Another way is to have one of your apex seal corner pieces pop out on you as your putting the irons down, and not noticing. That'll lock her up bigger than hell, too.

Can you turn the engine COUNTERclockwise at all from that front bolt?

Impreza2RX7

It wouldn't turn counter-clockwise either..

WAYNE88N/A

Well, if you have nothing to lose, get ya some small hose, and a crapload of Marvel Mystery Oil, or some other thin penetrant type oil, and inject at least a couple of onces into each lower spark plug hole. Then let her sit a while and try turning her again. This guy you got her from might have blown a coolant seal, then let her sit, which would have rusted everything together. In any case, you're looking at a teardown. Does the car roll in neutral?

Impreza2RX7

It does roll in neutral, and I already told my friend to use marvel mystery oil or ATF and to let it sit for a day or so. I was reading something in a thread about not oiling the inside of the rotor housings before assembly causing this, is this true or a fallacy? Anyway, thanks for your help. I'm glad to be learning something new, my TII is better than ever, but I hope I can help my friend to get his running.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

There is very little you could do during assembly to cause this problem, if you had any clue what you were doing. Even with NO assembly lube ANYWHERE, that engine would still crank over...perhaps a hair slow, but still able to be turned by hand or slightly more.

Perhaps if he didnt clean any carbon out of the apex seal slots, and used new apex seals and assembled it that way, it could lock up...since the old seals were worn down to half height, x amount of carbon could build up under them since they sat farther outward, and now the new seal cannot compress against the built up carbon...I've seen this one before.

Also the aforementioned rotor gear-to-stationary gear timing could be at fault, but in honesty it'd be hard to assemble the thing that way and not know it.

Perhaps a foreign object fell into the engine during assembly of the shortblock or longblock...it's happened before (not to me).

ONe time I knew a guy who built his own engine and it siezed up after 10 seconds of running. Upon disassembly we found that the little itty bitty key that fits on the oil pump had slipped out from behind the sprocket during assembly, without him knowing...the pump turned even without the key, but as soon as it primed and that thick oil got in there and loaded it, it stopped spinning and the engine starved of oil...tore up the front main and rotor bearing. I've seen this a few times, oiling failures that cause lockup, and it's my guess that's what you're looking at.

IF it locks up the tires, and you've removed all belts for all accessories and it still won't turn, then you might as well get to pulling it out, it's useless to continue trying. I've NEVER heard of anyone bringing back a TOTALLY locked up engine and having it be a good running one, NEVER. ONe with a stuck seal or 2, maybe, but not a total lockup. That represents a foreign object impeding motion, a stuck or wedged apex seal, or an oiling issue, none of which are going to fix themselves.
You forcing the issue just makes the damage worse, in most cases.

Impreza2RX7

Well, I guess I'll talk to my friend and see what he wants to do, and also refer him to you. The previous owner offered to fix it if it didn't start, but I doubt that would be a good idea..

RETed

The engine is no good.
If the guy claims his rebuilds are always flooding, that's already wrong.
The majority of rebuilds I do actual do start on the first try, so either parts are not spec'd or tolerances are too loose.


-Ted

Impreza2RX7

Thanks for all of your help guys. I believe now that the parts are not within tolerance, the engine was never rebuilt, or something must be stuck in the engine. I was looking at it earlier, and the guy used RTV for all gaskets, some hoses were missing clamps, the block and oil filler neck were vented to atmosphere after removing the vacuum rack, and the fuel pump rewire looked shabby. I wanted to make sure before knocking someone horribly on a forum, but I guess it seems that the guy dosen't really know what he's doing. Personally, I'm no expert like Ted or Kevin, but I research every aspect of what I do on my car and learn, I just don't throw it together like this guy seemed to..