vicious525E

Ok, I have searched but haven’t turned up anything like what I was looking for.
I was wanting a comprehensive list of everything that needs to be switched over to convert a s5 long block to work in a s4, I know many people out there have the same questions as I do as to whether or not “everything” needs to be moved over, as most write ups state. I would like to keep what I can (i.e. Tps, uim, lim, etc…) seeing as how I don’t have everything off my old block. Please don’t bother replying if you don’t have anything constructive to say, I’m doing this to help my self and hopefully others who have to do this.

vicious525E

bump

Matt88

Hopefully somebody else replies cause I wanna know too.

FxF

I have searched and I came along to this thread.
I have an S5 parts car (non-driveable) and I want to buy an S4 car and make the conversion.
What do I need to do?

-Fanis

evalutionr

I wanna know also, but all i know is getting the ecu and tranny and motor

devdog1one

I am currently swapping a S5 TII motor in a 87 base and this is what I have done so far. I have not yet finished, but it should work.

I purchased a S4 TII which came with a second motor, the S5. That is how this occured.

I swapped in the S4 TII:

Transmission
Driveshaft
Differential
Half-Shafts
S4 Front Cover
S4 ECU
S4 Enginie Wiring Harness
S5 UIM/LIM
S4 Sensors
S4 Waterpump Housing

I hope this helps

Michael

vicious525E

just a question, do you need to swap the s4 tps for the s5? and does anyone happen to know what sensors need to be swaped? i know there is a few that can stay, such as the intake temp sensor and others

FxF

Can anyone post some helpfull info?

-Fanis

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

to use S5 TII block in S4 TII car u NEED

S5 TII LIM
S5 TII UIM
S4 TII TB + TPS

and thats about it, everything else is very much same, bolt on or obvious for swap

FxF

to use S5 TII block in S4 n/a car?

-Fanis

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

did somebody say NA?

FxF

Yeah, hello!!!
Is anybody here...
I did Higgi...

-Fanis

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

maybe u should say its european S4 NA and you would get better answers about dropping S5 TII motor in there in 1st gen forum

FxF

Maybe I'll just keep the S4 chassis and swap everything electrical and mechanical from the S5.

-Fanis

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

That would be most straight forward for you.

vipers

iTrader: (8)

i just did a s4 t2 swap into a s5 na (it was done the proper way)....... so if you have any questions at all about this swap, just pm me, and id be happy to answer them!!!!

FxF

To end all this forum searching I am posting info from Kevin Landers's (RotaryResurrection) website.

NA to Turbo II conversion - Stage I (basic)

"Facts about the highly sought after turbo conversion, and what role I can play in supplying it"

Please read all information found on this page before calling or emailing
me with questions about a turbo conversion. I have worked hard to develop
this section of the site due to the high volume of requests I recieve
personally as well as see being asked on other tech forums. Please take
time to familiarize yourself with what you are getting into before asking
me about it. IF you ask me a question that I have covered already on this page, you will either be directed to come and read this page (if I am in a good mood) or ignored altogether (if I am busy). This is not to be rude, but just to avoid repeating myself over and over, as I get anywhere from 2-10 emails/calls per week asking about this stuff. If, after reading this page in it's entirety, you have questions feel free to contact me."


WHAT IS THE TURBO CONVERSION?

When people refer to a turbo conversion on a 2nd gen RX-7,
it could mean one of 3 things:

1) custom fitting a turbo and other required parts of the system onto the
nonturbo engine, keeping the drivetrain stock. This is the least expensive
(in most cases) method for turbo'ing your NA car, however it is also by far
the least desireable. Keep in mind most people's nonturbo is still on the
original engine, or at very least a high mileage replacement. Adding the
additional stress of boost, even if done properly, is asking too much from
a tired old engine. Not to mention that nonturbo engines are high
compression internally, and the intake is not set up for boost (6 port
variable intake). There is also much custom rigging involved in this setup,
and by the time you do everything that needs to be done you have a hacked
up engine bay and almost as much money as a true turbo conversion (see
below) could have cost you. The only way this setup is to last is to keep
boost way down, or rebuild the engine beforehand, either one is not much
fun. For some information and parts list on this type of swap, you can
check out the following thread posted by a fellow who did this and photo
documented the process. Please give all credit to the original author. This
writeup is not to be taken as "the only way" to do the swap, but gives you
a good idea of what would be expected to make it work.


https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=88540


2) Take all the stock engine parts out of a turbo II to put into your car,
just the engine itself and all the electronics that are required to operate
it in stock form, not the turbo drivetrain (for instance if you cannot find
one). This would retain your nonturbo drivetrain. This is not highly
recommended, but can be done successfully depending on the driver. To do
this you would need, at very minimum, an upgraded clutch and pressureplate
to avoid major slippage of the clutch under boost. You just bolt an NA
flywheel onto your new t2 engine and everything bolts together just like it
did. Below is a parts list that is the basic minimum for doing this type of
swap, along with basic instructions.


3)Take all the stock parts out of a turbo II to put into your car,
everything from front to back including the drivetrain. This is considered
the "proper" way to do the conversion, and will result in the longest
lasting choice. Below is a parts list along with basic instructions for
this swap.


SO WHAT DO I NEED TO BUY?
--Here is a helpful guide to what you need to look for.
**The following list is for the "engine only" swap as listed in #2 above.**

**Note that there is a BIG difference between the 87-88 turbo parts that fit 86-88 nonturbo cars, and the 89-91 turbo parts that fit 89-91 NA cars. IT is not adviseable to try and mix and match any of these parts. IF you have an 86-88 (s4) car, you need to obtain all 87-88 matching turbo II stock parts for use in the car. IF you have an 89-91 (s5) car, you need to obtain al the 89-91 matching parts for use in your car. Note also that 89-91 turbo parts are becoming EXTREMELY RARE AND EXPENSIVE. IT is much easier to find and afford all the 87-88 turbo parts in contrast to the 89-91 parts.**

* Complete turbo engine with intercooler
* Left-hand drive spec turbo wiring harness
* Turbo ECU (jspec ecu will work, as well as convertible ecu of the same
year range)
* *only for 87-88 turbo* knock control box, a small silver box up inside the
passenger kick panel that plugs into the wiring harness. On 89 and later
setups, the ecu handled this function.
* turbo boost sensor.
* Turbo throttle cable. 87-91 are interchangeable.
* Stock turbo fuel pump (87-91 turbo pumps are the same, but the bracket is
not) or upgrade such as walbro 255. A rewire for full voltage from the
fusebox is also recommended, as well as a re-ground in the hatch to bare
metal, a new pickup screen and fuel filter.
* Stock turbo intake duct with blow off valve (if not present on engine
already). The 87-88 TID is smaller than the 89-91, but either can be used
in place of the other. Blow off valves are slightly changed but basically
the same.
* Stock t2 precat/downpipe and midpipe (bolts to main cat) or
aftermarket/custom equivalent.
* T2 hood with scoop (unless you go front mount intercooler from day 1)
* Turbo air flow meter (your old nonturbo afm will get you by if you cannot
find one, however the turbo afm is said to be calibrated for slightly
higher air flow on top end so it is something that might matter once you
begin to push the car).
* Aftermarket boost gauge is recommended. Even though 89-91 owners can
install the 89-91 turbo gauge cluster and the gauge will work, it is still
not very helpful. 87-88 owners cannot install the stock turbo gauge cluster
and expect it to work, the wiring harness differs in this area.
* Aftermarket upgraded clutch and pressureplate. Remember, you're buying
this for a nonturbo, not a turbo, since you're using your old NA drivetrain
still.

Keep in mind that you need to put the NA flywheel on the turbo engine.
86-88 NA flywheels mate to 87-88 turbo engines, and 89-91 NA flywheels mate
to 89-91 turbo engines. Do not mix and match flywheels between series (s4
and s5), they are weighted differently.

You also have to do a bit of rewiring for this to work in the 87-88 cars
(in teh 89-91's it is a basic plug and play).

You have to run 2 wires from the back of the alternator inside the cabin by
the ecu. Compare your old NA wiring harness and trace the wires that used
to be at the alternator back to the plug they ended at (one of the 2 large
orange ones inside the car). Now compare these pin positions with the
current harness. Cut whatever wires are presently there (theyre not doing
anything important) and splice in your 2 newly run wires. Be sure to cut
and insulate those old wires, so you're not backfeeding through some other
circuit. This keeps all your idiot lights from staying on all the
time (this is normally an indication of a failed alternator, and the car
thinks it has failed because the wiring was missing).

You also have to run 1 wire about 6 inches. On your old NA harness, find
the yellow/red temp sensor wire that went under the oil filter. Now find
it's pinout position on the orange plug that was inside the car. Compare
this to the turbo harness' plug. Now trace the same wire on the turbo
harness in the car. Cut that wire on the *engine side* of the turbo
harness, and jumper it over to the wire that is in the pin position the old
NA harness had the wire at. Be sure to cut this old wire and insulate it to
prevent backfeeding through that circuit. Now your dash temperature gauge
will work like stock.

OK, that's what is required to run the stock turbo II engine by itself.
**What if you want the whole drivetrain as well (as listed in #3 above)?
Here is the additional list for those parts:**



* Turbo flywheel appropriate to the year/series engine (86-88 or 89-91)
* Turbo clutch kit
* Turbo tranny
* Turbo starter
* Turbo driveshaft
* Turbo rearend
* Turbo halfshafts


You CANNOT mix and match any of these parts with nonturbo parts. Everything
is different. You either change ALL the parts listed above, or none of
them. Note that other than the flywheel, the drivetrain parts really arent
specific to any year. Basically the only small changes made to these parts
from 87-91 do not matter to performance. In otherwords, it doesnt matter if
you buy an 87 transmission and a 91 rearend, it'll still work just fine.


OK, SO I KNOW WHAT TO BUY. WHERE CAN I FIND IT? CAN YOU SELL IT TO ME? CAN YOU INSTALL IT?
There is usually no one source for all the parts unless you find an entire
partscar, which is the best route if you can find it. Buying one piece
here, one piece there, all from different sources is not the most
desireable way. You can look at the online forums such as
rx7club.com/forum, teamfc3s.org/forum, nopistons.com, ebay,
thepartstrader.com, etc. to find all these parts individually or as a package.

Alternately, **ON RARE OCCASIONS** I might offer a complete turbo
conversion package. The ones that I get are 87-88 cars. Basically what
happens is I find a complete t2 in need of an engine, or wrecked, and I
part it out. I gather up all the required parts and sell them together.
Usually I rebuild the engine before selling the package. On the rare
occasion that I have such a package for sale, it usually goes for around
$2500-3000 rebuilt (usually to customer spec), plus installation or
shipping. Installation of turbo conversions (you bring the parts yourself)
usually runs $1000. Installation of a package I sell is usually discounted
to around $3500 installed, along with trade for your old NA
drivetrain/engine/electronics, but this price depends on each situation.
Shipping a complete t2 conversion usually costs $225-450 depending on your
location. No core charge/core is required for the conversion package, but credit will be given for any cores that are traded in, be it N/A or Turbo.


**NOTE that I do not get ANY 89-91 turbo partscars or parts.** Those of you
with 89-91's wishing to do this conversion are going down a hard road. I
suggest that you buy a jspec engine, rebuild it, and use an aftermarket EMS
such as haltech or microtech to control it, bypassing all the necessary
stock electronics and the expense and hassle associated with trying to find
them. Your final price will end up roughly the same as the 87-88 conversion
mentioned above, but your end result will be obtained faster, and be a
better setup as well.


DO YOU HAVE ANY TURBO CONVERSION PACKAGES AVAILABLE NOW? IF NOT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE?
Rest assured that if I have a package available, it will be posted
conspicuously on this page as well as other sites. After all, I'm not here
to hide parts in secret, Im here to sell them. IF you dont see anything
posted about me having one available, it means I dont have one.
When will I get another? I have no idea, honestly. I might go 6 months
without buying a single partscar, and then buy 3 in 1 week. I never know
when Im going to see one and buy it, or someone might call me up and offer
to sell one. Unless you know a good psychic, I have no answer to this question.

FxF

Swapping an 86-88 (s4) engine into an 89-91 (s5) car (s5 & s4 swap)



Many people have the desire/opportunity to use an early engine in a later car. It is rarely worth the work. It is MUCH easier to simply find the proper engine for your car and bolt/plug it in. Note that some of these swaps have differences in emissions equipment/passages which prevent being able to keep the car emissions legal when doing so. You’d usually wind up removing the whole emissions rack and components to get everything back together properly, though it could be possible to make such a swap pass.



When doing such a swap, it is important to note that the flywheel must be obtained/used that matches the engine block you’re using. For instance, if you’re putting an s4 NA block into an s5 NA car, you must use an s4 NA flywheel with the s4 NA block; using the s5 NA flywheel from your old block will throw the new block out of balance.



These swaps are really pretty simple in theory, but it takes several hours to get everything swapped over. Basically, you’re going to keep everything that used to be on your original block, and transfer it to the new one. The only times this principle does not apply:



1)the flywheel must match the s4 block

2)it’s much easier to leave off the emissions rack, so don’t use either one

3)if a part on the newer engine is superior to one on the old engine (such as s5 NA intake set, or s5 turbo set)

4)the temperature probe on the rear iron, will only fit the block it came from (the holes are different sizes for s5 and s4)



Remember that anything electronic, or anything that an electronic part bolts to and would not otherwise bolt to on the older setup, must be retained from your old engine. Your car still has to think it is an s5, even though it has an s4 block.



The hardest part of the swap, and the part with the most potential for screwup, is the front cover. The oil metering pumps differ between s4 and s5, and the front covers differ to accommodate this. When swapping front covers, it is possible to allow the bearings and spacers to slip on the e-shaft, doing internal damage and creating a lot of endplay and vibration. For more information on this, see the mazdatrix how-to section (www.mazdatrix.com). Also note the front cover o-ring (oil passage) which is easily lost/crushed/slipped out which will result in loss of oil pressure, so special care should be taken to ensure that this gets re-sealed well. Mazdatrix also has a nice writeup on this.



Now, here is an overview of how to proceed with the swap.

Strip the s5 engine down to the bare block, leaving the flywheel on, but removing the front cover. Repeat for the s4 engine. It is always easiest to simply use all the s5 parts.

Take everything that came from the s5 engine and put onto the s4 block.



When installing an s5 NONTURBO intake manifold on an s4 block, note that you must grind off some metal on the rear iron to allow the middle intake to sit flush with the lower intake. The s4 rear iron is cast slightly taller than the s5 that the intake was originally on.



Note also that the s4 EGR passage must be blocked off for use with an s5 intake. I cut my own blockoff plates from 1/8” aluminum, or you can buy them at places like mazdatrix or racing beat.



Again, the aim of this is to make the car/ecu think it still has an s5 engine, by keeping all the “smart” parts, which are the electronics, from the original engine.



The same principles can be used for s4às5 swaps, and these actually have a bit of merit since a) the s5 engines had higher compression so you can gain a bit of hp and b) the s5 engines had a few parts that were upgraded and though the swap might still not be worth the work involved, at least some improvements can be made. Doing the s5 & s4 swap, is going backwards to a lower compression/lower power engine.

FxF

S4 to S5 Guage Cluster

Special thanks to Icemark (www.mazdamark.com) for these instructions, which I copied and pasted here for others’ use. Please note that I am not the author.

It actually pretty simple. It’s just a matter of un-pinning and re-pinning the plugs. Take the FB01 (S4) cluster harness and cut the tape at the Y of the harness (you will need a little extra room as the plugs are further apart on the S5 cluster. Now looking down the female pin side of the plugs, there are little plastic tabs that hold the pins in. You will need to push those pins towards the middle of the plug to release the pin. I use a small pick myself.

Non turbo, Turbo will be slightly different because of the boost wires.

So, looking at the white plug,

Pin A = green/red

Pin B = blank

Pin C = Blue

Pin D = Black

Pin E = Red/green

Pin F = black/white

Pin G = Grn/white

Pin H = Blank

Pin I = Brwn/white

Pin J = Brown

Pin K = Yel/Blk

Pin L = Blk/Yellow

Black Plug:

Pin A = Black

Pin B = small Red/White

Pin C = Yellow/Red

Pin D = Blank

Pin E = Blank

Pin F = Yellow/White

Pin G = Blank

Pin H = Blank

Pin I = Yellow/Blue

Pin J = Grn/Black

Pin K = Large Red/White

Pin L = Tan/green

FxF

This is the link to his website.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/

I am going to follow his instructions...

-Fanis

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

what are you converting to s5? everything, well you'll need the trim and front a rear caps to begin with, full s5 interior, every stinking wire in the damn car all the drive train the question is why not GET an S5? if thats what your into, i have an S4 and its fine how it is the only thing S5 i'm going to get in the future is probably the door trim and maybe MAYBE the taillights, other than that i'll be running either an S4 turbo engine, or a cosmo engine :-D

chris-reedtn

just change the throttlebody and the tps, hook it up and see what youve got, if thats not working correctly. then youll need to swap the s5 ecu, i dont know for sure if you need the s5 ecu or the s4 but there are differences, say in compression ratios, and high and low impedence fuel injectors, manual and electric oil injectors, things of that nature, maybe in the future youll just ask your damn brother, who obviously can point you in a better direction than these people in the second gen forum.

-Chris

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

FxF, but Kevin's info does not help you if u are talking about swapping motor into Euro spec S4 NA car.

Euro spec S4 NA is equal to first gen. It does not have ECU controlled ignition (it does have same distributor like first gen). It does not have FC coil pack (it does have just 2 first gen coils). Even S4 TII into S4 euro NA car swap is not plug and play, u have to do lot of custom wiring and its not always same to US spec cars.

FxF

In my case, since I don't exactly know what I am going to do, I will most likely have to change all the wiring, interior, exterior and mechanical parts from the Euro S5 TII to a Euro S4 N/A.
I will call you Higgi when the time comes....

-Fanis