i dont even know if mine are on or not

 

I bought DTSS eliminators because $40 eliminators is cheaper than $110 per hub and my old bushings were worn out.

If you want to know more about DTSS, do a search for "DTSS" with the username set to "Icemark". It'll edumacate you goodly.

 

I highly doubt a camebr link would cause a knocking metal on metal noice which increases with how much throttle is applied, that indicates that the part making the noise is somehow linked directly to moving parts (aka, diff, driveshaft, axles, hubs, etc)

If it was a camber link (whether each trailing arm link, or the main camber link) or a front diff mount (unless so annihilated it has zero rubber left) it would be a very noticeable CLUNK upon rapid accel or rapid decel. i should know my s4 n/a currently has a shot to hell trailing arm link. clunks on bumps and any time when the weight of the vehicle is shift drastically (aka accel or decel)

I still say it's the ujoints. it's very easy to check, they also have a tendency to be "all or nothing" aka they work fine one minute then the next theyre shot to hell....its just how it happens. a worn ujoint is a blown ujoint, no middle ground.

so go check your ujoints.

also chances of it being the DTSS are pretty slim. even if it was the noise it would make wouldnt have a direct corrolation to your vehicle speed.

oh and if it is your ujoints, please just buy a driveshaft, dont try getting a new ujoint welded in, i bought a car that was rigged like that and the previous owner is lucky he didnt die, i could seperate the driveshaft while it was still connected to the diff due to that massive ghetto rigging.

kevin.

 

you're thinking about it backwards. why did they pick that G number to have it transition? how did they come up with the total amount of toe change?

they used the tires. if you change the tires to racing slicks, are they going to want the same toe changes?

 

no, wrong. I still have my DTSS and its fairly new (previous owner installed them right before I got the car) I drove my buddies fc right after he had it all removed. Big difference. The car reacts in turns the way you would expect it to. DTSS kinda kicks in when you dont want it to, and thats bad. You can feel DTSS whenever you want to on the freeway if you jiggle the wheel back and forth you can kinda feel a sea saw motion back an forth. thats the DTSS.

even somebody who knows nothing of DTSS can look around at other FC's and guess that DTSS isnt good to have; Look at ALL japanese drift FC's almost NONE of them have DTSS almost all american drift FCs have DTSS removed as well. Rear steer =

 

Read what Icemark has to say on the subject. A quick summary (I'm sure he'd correct me if I get this wrong): That's because you're not experienced with DTSS. You can, however, gain the experience necessary for DTSS to work how you expect it to.

Because you're not used to it.

DTSS shouldn't operate at that low of a G-force. If it does, it's worn out.

Because they're not used to it and don't understand what it does.

Because drift cars are supposed to lose traction. DTSS helps you keep traction so that you can make higher speed turns without losing traction.

 

+1

Drift cars are setup to oversteer like crazy.

 

yeah, the FC's in Japan were drift cars so they didn't want the DTSS bushings.

In America people like sports cars to drive fast and not slip off the road and die.

I'm not knockin the DTSS system at all... in fact I really like it. But as people have stated before, the bushings are well past worn these days. To replace those bushings back to stock costs lots of money because you have to replace the whole part, not just the bushing. Eliminating the bushings costs like $100 vs making it work for like $1,000

 

Actually, I believe it's $40 for the eliminators and $220 for replacement hubs.

 

FCs were not "drift" cars in japan they were sports cars just like here. An operating DTSS system is far better than a elimination kit, or non working ones, it just takes a lil more getting used to the way the car feels in the corner.

 

If it was so great they would have put it on the FD...

Rear steering is for buses and trucks, not sports cars.

 

I believe (and I could be wrong) that just replacing the worn bushings for the dtss will not fix it alone. In other words, to have a proper DTSS you have to replace all the worn parts. Just replacing the DTSS bushings is only going to fix the DTSS bushings. If say the control arm bushings are worn, that may not solve the issue of it acting unexpectedly. This is somewhat of a precision tuned suspension (circa late 1980's early 90's). Therefore, if other parts are worn, they have to be replaced in order for it to work properly. Just the way I see things. Example: hollowing out cats on a T2 (without proper modification). All eliminators do is allow you to get by with worn out suspension for cheap.

 

Well by that way of thinking, if reliability was so great they would have put it on the FD.

If working doors were so great they would have put it on the FD

If a good working Seq turbo system that didnt use a billion vaccum lines they would have put it on the FD.

Just because its the next in the series dosnt mean that it is perfect. THE FD is great in many ways, but saying that a system wasnt used on a next generation is not a very good argument.

NOw there are alot of people in this thread that are either new or have never experienced a good working DTSS system. If you have the chance then I really think you have either ride or drive a car with the properly working DTSS. I am not saying that you should keep it for an all out track, or drift car which you shouldnt, but most of the people on this forum have slightly modded or stock cars and the system works great for that, slightly moded or stock.

 

Yeah, those Mazda engineers are just so damn stupid. What were they thinking? They obviously didn't have a clue. How the hell did they manage to make one of the most successful sports cars in history when they were so stinking stupid?

 

Removing DTSS doesnt make it act like its a solid rear axle car with bald tires.

From the way the car understeers stock I couldn't imagine it hurting. The only thing it changes is toe. If you need to, just remove the DTSS and set the car to toe in a little. It's a no brainer.

I have seen my DTSS bushings, they don't actually look bad at all, perhaps they may have been replace, I know some of the suspension has to have been beause shocks dont last 140k. and still be responsive enough to auto-x.

I did however notice how much the car did understeer at auto-x though. I my self am planning on removing DTSS and running a poly kit shocks and springs and swaybars.

If it's too tail happy i'll adjust it to toe in some, it's not that difficult really.

 

Making a PROPER sports car is one thing, making a RELIABLE sports car another thing entirely...

Rear steer is a gimmick. If it was so special (or even effective), every car maker would put it on every car. But instead, passive rear-steer basically died out in the early 90s. Hmm, wonder why.

Working or not, the last thing I'd want is my wheels deciding where they want to point by themselves.

 

240SXs have active electronic rear steer and most opt to eliminate that even.

The only realy car that likes it is the skyline i think, and maybe the prelude but preludes suck ***.

 

The HICAS system found on the R and S chassis is far from a passive system. Mazda simply did not have the technology at the time to make a electronically controled AWS that was affordable. By the time that period rolled around nissan adapted this into there chassis and is much sought after, the only reason they are being deleted is either they are highly modifed or th original system broke and because the parts are expensive they opted to delete.

 

OMG THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC, TRY TO HELP THE KID HERE PEOPLE.

geez i think im the only person posting relevant things.

kevin.

 

I got the impression that his question had been answered as effectively as people could given the information. Personally I think the discussion of the DTSS is interesting and informative.

On the topic of 'having to replace everything' and not just the worn-out DTSS bushings, does that mean that if you were to replace the stock bushings elsewhere in the suspension with something like the polyurethane bushings, the DTSS wouldn't behave properly?

 

mazda had a 4 wheel steering 626, as did honduh with the prelude.... the 929 and millenia both have dummy racks in the rear

 

Rear steer was not popular on cars, even when Honda stuck it on the Prelude. They had to get people to drive the Preludes first to overcome the prejudices, then they were amazed. I forget who awarded that Prelude the best handling car of the year (car & driver or road & track or some such). RWS allows tighter cornering and more stable rapid lane changes. In the end rear wheel steering was never very popular (e.g., awkward feel at limits, prejudice), plus it added cost and weight. So Mazda and Honda stopped offering it.

I may have seen it mentioned or implied somewhere that the FD doesn't have rear stear so that it can save weight. Plus a suspension based on a double wishbone doesn't need it to compensate for oversteer, making it more of a nicety than a "need" in the FD. Without it the FC oversteers.

The last time I read about DTSS in these forums someone posted that the eliminators were $40 for a pair while a pair of OEM bushings with arms were $180 (not available individually).

Sources: official Honda history, unofficial RX-7 history (I forget the site), a sticky (I think it's "what did the FC come with?")

 

From my point of view, DTSS is great for a track/aggressive driving car. However, the reason Mazda got rid of it is because the general public didn't like it.

Just because a company doesn't carry something over to future generations doesn't mean it was a bad system. All that means is that it didn't sell.


So you're saying cars that TRY to lose rear traction have DTSS removed. Well, does that tell you anything? I sure hope it does because what you said was pretty self-owning.

 

ok, i may sound stupid sayin this, (believe me i feel a lil stupid askin) but where exactly is the hub. i know its n the rear, but where n the rear. (now i hope u dont think i'm an idiot, cause most of my knowledge of the rx7 is into the motor itself,mainly by doin the work myself) i'm a lil lost on the whole situation. i understand what dtss does now, but know i just need to fix my car. i need to locate the bushings so i can check it out. i'm gonna check it out on this sunday b4 the superbowl. I'm also gonna check the ujoints. i'm not gonna rule anything out on this one. there are a couple of possibilities that can b wrong w/ my car. and i'm gonna have some time on sunday (FINALLY) to check it out. i've been so busy w/ work n all that i wake up l8 every day and only have a chance for 15-20 mins a day 2 myself. so i've been spending time on reading up on the possibilities of what the problem is, and where i go to check it out.

ok, do i have to take off the rear shock n struts 2 locate the dtss bushing???
how exactly do i check the u joints??????
my dad claims that i have a bump on my tire (but on the inside of the tire).

Right now i have $270 to my name for the car. i found a set of KYB AGX shocks n struts n the junk yard that i might get (if they are still there). but i will decide when i actually figure out the problem w/ my car.

 

Aren't they completely different rear suspension setups? AFAIK, the FD is basically just a big rotary twin turbo Miata.

Which would post better track results (100% stock and funcitonal)?: FC with DTSS or FC without DTSS? What if you make adjustments to the no-DTSS FC, what then?

Although my shocks and springs are relatively low mileage, you can tell by my sig every other part of my suspension is worn out (found out the hard way the rear end is not behaving properly taking a corner at 90% - spooky). Let's not let this argument die off, I need to decide how to go about redoing the entire suspension system!