RTEK 2.0 vs Standalone EMS?
01-05-11, 01:38 PM
#52
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still didn't see were his goals are listed, i'm sure that would end this EMS debate.
IMHO Goal<350=Rtek 2.x.
Haters call an Rtek a piggyback. simple truth is, when they update it to lose the AFM, and add in a few duty cycle controlled outputs, it will put it even more on par with everybody else.
Further more, YOU CAN USE ANY SENSOR with the rtek, it has the option within the software to define any parameters for such. although it only supports two extra over the stock.and things like the ECT and TPS can't be made to use one of these after market sensors, the extra two are more for datalogging, and display, like EGT,Lambda(a/f), boost/backpressure, knock.
IMHO Goal<350=Rtek 2.x.
Haters call an Rtek a piggyback. simple truth is, when they update it to lose the AFM, and add in a few duty cycle controlled outputs, it will put it even more on par with everybody else.
Further more, YOU CAN USE ANY SENSOR with the rtek, it has the option within the software to define any parameters for such. although it only supports two extra over the stock.and things like the ECT and TPS can't be made to use one of these after market sensors, the extra two are more for datalogging, and display, like EGT,Lambda(a/f), boost/backpressure, knock.
Goals:
1. I have no power goals in mind at this time. Maybe a broader powerband through tuning.
2. Currently experimenting on NA engine to get the most I can out of it.
3. I want an ECU that I can use for both NA and Turbo, because I am currently collecting parts to do the conversion to a T2 6-port setup. So using the PFC will give me much more flexibility in that area.
4. In order to make my engine as efficient as possible, without spending an arm and a leg, I will need a much newer ECU, which at this time means the Rtek is out of the question, as has been said, it's resolution is a bit dated and is a lot slower then modern ECUs. Which means the PFC is currently in play, it comes with a base map from the guys at Banzai-Racing, it's good at what it does, it's proven.
5. I'm in California, I need to make sure that I'm using an ECU that doesn't draw to much attention, and it looks like the PFC can be mounted in the stock location. I also can utilize most stock sensors and can easily revert back to stock if I so desire, especially if I am required to smog it.
Current plans for mods are going to be:
- 4-RX8 Secondary Yellow injectors
- Corksport Header
- Corksport Catback
- Stock Main Cat
- Ignition Amplification box (MSD 6A perhaps)
I'm sure there is more I can do, but I want to see what this engine is capable of with modern tech, since as far as I'm concerned not many have done. So far an ITS RX7 race car has put down 199 RWHP on the Series 5 NA engine, which is considerable.
Now considering the RX7 series 5 NA engine makes 160HP, which I assume is flywheel HP, a bump to 199 rear horse power, now if I recall correctly, most people use a 15% drive train loss? A stock engine at the wheels should make 136HP, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, I don't specifics, I'm just going on what I think is correct. Now assuming this is correct that's a 63 HP gain, and this is in break in. According to my math that's a 68% increase in HP. This is also on stock port engine as well. Now considering I'm an series 4, I don't expect to make as much, but if I can get anywhere from 160-180 to the ground, that would be sweet.
01-05-11, 01:56 PM
#53
then to really answer your question is simple.
you can't use the non turbo Rtek for the car once you switch it to turbo. you could maybe get the Rtek turbo version for the series of car your non turbo is and tune it for the vacuum maps only before the conversion but it will have even more limited usability.
major drawback to the Rtek is that it still requires a MAF, which hurts turbo performance more than n/a performance and limits the cieling of which you can accomplish with it.
you can't use the non turbo Rtek for the car once you switch it to turbo. you could maybe get the Rtek turbo version for the series of car your non turbo is and tune it for the vacuum maps only before the conversion but it will have even more limited usability.
major drawback to the Rtek is that it still requires a MAF, which hurts turbo performance more than n/a performance and limits the cieling of which you can accomplish with it.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-05-11 at 01:59 PM.
01-05-11, 01:59 PM
#54
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then to really answer your question is simple.
you can't use the non turbo Rtek for the car once you switch it to turbo. you could maybe get the Rtek for the series of car your non turbo is and tune it for the vacuum maps only before the conversion but it will have even more limited usability.
you can't use the non turbo Rtek for the car once you switch it to turbo. you could maybe get the Rtek for the series of car your non turbo is and tune it for the vacuum maps only before the conversion but it will have even more limited usability.
01-05-11, 02:00 PM
#55
Since this seems to have been asked more than once I answer the question.
Goals:
1. I have no power goals in mind at this time. Maybe a broader powerband through tuning.
2. Currently experimenting on NA engine to get the most I can out of it.
3. I want an ECU that I can use for both NA and Turbo, because I am currently collecting parts to do the conversion to a T2 6-port setup. So using the PFC will give me much more flexibility in that area.
4. In order to make my engine as efficient as possible, without spending an arm and a leg, I will need a much newer ECU, which at this time means the Rtek is out of the question, as has been said, it's resolution is a bit dated and is a lot slower then modern ECUs. Which means the PFC is currently in play, it comes with a base map from the guys at Banzai-Racing, it's good at what it does, it's proven.
5. I'm in California, I need to make sure that I'm using an ECU that doesn't draw to much attention, and it looks like the PFC can be mounted in the stock location. I also can utilize most stock sensors and can easily revert back to stock if I so desire, especially if I am required to smog it.
Current plans for mods are going to be:
- 4-RX8 Secondary Yellow injectors
- Corksport Header
- Corksport Catback
- Stock Main Cat
- Ignition Amplification box (MSD 6A perhaps)
I'm sure there is more I can do, but I want to see what this engine is capable of with modern tech, since as far as I'm concerned not many have done. So far an ITS RX7 race car has put down 199 RWHP on the Series 5 NA engine, which is considerable.
Now considering the RX7 series 5 NA engine makes 160HP, which I assume is flywheel HP, a bump to 199 rear horse power, now if I recall correctly, most people use a 15% drive train loss? A stock engine at the wheels should make 136HP, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, I don't specifics, I'm just going on what I think is correct. Now assuming this is correct that's a 63 HP gain, and this is in break in. According to my math that's a 68% increase in HP. This is also on stock port engine as well. Now considering I'm an series 4, I don't expect to make as much, but if I can get anywhere from 160-180 to the ground, that would be sweet.
Goals:
1. I have no power goals in mind at this time. Maybe a broader powerband through tuning.
2. Currently experimenting on NA engine to get the most I can out of it.
3. I want an ECU that I can use for both NA and Turbo, because I am currently collecting parts to do the conversion to a T2 6-port setup. So using the PFC will give me much more flexibility in that area.
4. In order to make my engine as efficient as possible, without spending an arm and a leg, I will need a much newer ECU, which at this time means the Rtek is out of the question, as has been said, it's resolution is a bit dated and is a lot slower then modern ECUs. Which means the PFC is currently in play, it comes with a base map from the guys at Banzai-Racing, it's good at what it does, it's proven.
5. I'm in California, I need to make sure that I'm using an ECU that doesn't draw to much attention, and it looks like the PFC can be mounted in the stock location. I also can utilize most stock sensors and can easily revert back to stock if I so desire, especially if I am required to smog it.
Current plans for mods are going to be:
- 4-RX8 Secondary Yellow injectors
- Corksport Header
- Corksport Catback
- Stock Main Cat
- Ignition Amplification box (MSD 6A perhaps)
I'm sure there is more I can do, but I want to see what this engine is capable of with modern tech, since as far as I'm concerned not many have done. So far an ITS RX7 race car has put down 199 RWHP on the Series 5 NA engine, which is considerable.
Now considering the RX7 series 5 NA engine makes 160HP, which I assume is flywheel HP, a bump to 199 rear horse power, now if I recall correctly, most people use a 15% drive train loss? A stock engine at the wheels should make 136HP, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, I don't specifics, I'm just going on what I think is correct. Now assuming this is correct that's a 63 HP gain, and this is in break in. According to my math that's a 68% increase in HP. This is also on stock port engine as well. Now considering I'm an series 4, I don't expect to make as much, but if I can get anywhere from 160-180 to the ground, that would be sweet.
I mean seriously, you are basing your dreams on the power from a race car, then using a couple of rules of thumb to calculate your Hp? Oh yeah, then you make the mental shift from Series 5 back to series 4?
Pick your ECU, then skip the N/A power dream and go straight to the turbo. You will have a lot more fun and the car will be much more pleasant to drive.
Which ever way you go, make sure you post up here on daClub so we can, eh, watch.
Good luck!
01-05-11, 02:19 PM
#57
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You are dreaming. It is a pleasant dream, but a dream nonetheless.
I mean seriously, you are basing your dreams on the power from a race car, then using a couple of rules of thumb to calculate your Hp? Oh yeah, then you make the mental shift from Series 5 back to series 4?
Pick your ECU, then skip the N/A power dream and go straight to the turbo. You will have a lot more fun and the car will be much more pleasant to drive.
Which ever way you go, make sure you post up here on daClub so we can, eh, watch.
Good luck!
I mean seriously, you are basing your dreams on the power from a race car, then using a couple of rules of thumb to calculate your Hp? Oh yeah, then you make the mental shift from Series 5 back to series 4?
Pick your ECU, then skip the N/A power dream and go straight to the turbo. You will have a lot more fun and the car will be much more pleasant to drive.
Which ever way you go, make sure you post up here on daClub so we can, eh, watch.
Good luck!
And yep I do plan on posting the results. Should be interesting.
01-05-11, 02:38 PM
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with the power fc ,can you use your stock bac and throttle components, the water thermo sensor
so cold starts wont occur...im tired of removing all that stuff then the idle is lumpy and jumpy
so cold starts wont occur...im tired of removing all that stuff then the idle is lumpy and jumpy
01-05-11, 06:42 PM
#64
-- A new PFC is currently near $1000 due to exchange rates. You get the new hand controller though which is nice because it is much easier to see compared to the old one which looks like an 80s Game Boy screen
-- adapter kit is $315.00 . you can use this with AEM EMS as well
-- Power FC Datalogit box which lets you swap maps and connect to the computer with a laptop to log data is $300 new
That's within the ballpark of the competition.
01-05-11, 07:00 PM
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01-05-11, 08:50 PM
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Unfortunately it's what I have to use, because there isn't anybody that will make me a cat in California that flows enough. Until then, I'll deal with it. Besides it's more for keeping noise down. This will be after all a highly tuned street car, at least that's how I look at it.
01-05-11, 08:58 PM
#67
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Your kidding right? There should be tons of shops out in CA that can help you out with a cat replacement using a 50-state legal performance cat, just make sure you use a mettalic core cat and not a ceramic..
Also currently the AEM is at $1300
Also currently the AEM is at $1300
01-05-11, 09:08 PM
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If it isn't made for the car and isn't carb approved or whatever, then it's not legal to put on the car. Either that or I don't know of any shops willing to do that kind of technically illegal work. I know the price of the AEM, my preference is the PFC for reasons stated above.
01-05-11, 11:36 PM
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Magnaflow cats come with CARB cetification. They even have a little card in the box to keep in the glove box.
REMOVING a cat is illegal, REPLACING it is not. Main cats are especially easy to replace with high-flow replacements that meet CARB, so check around.
REMOVING a cat is illegal, REPLACING it is not. Main cats are especially easy to replace with high-flow replacements that meet CARB, so check around.
01-05-11, 11:42 PM
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@Banzai-Racing: I was reading another guys post and it said the PFC doesn't work with the Auxiliary Ports and VDI in a 6-port, is this true? If so is there a work around to make them work?
01-06-11, 05:35 AM
#71
You don't have VDI and your Aux ports are exhaust pressure accuated on an S4.
On the S5 if someone wanted to, they could keep the VDI and AUX ports working by configuring a couple of the FD sequential twins solenoid outputs.
On the S5 if someone wanted to, they could keep the VDI and AUX ports working by configuring a couple of the FD sequential twins solenoid outputs.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 01-06-11 at 05:40 AM.
01-06-11, 06:27 AM
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I'm quite aware about the exhaust system, overall the exhaust system will not exceed 2.5" while in non-turbo form. The header will be a Corksport header which will bolt onto the stock main cat. This setup shouldn't loose that much back pressure to activate the aux ports.
01-06-11, 06:53 AM
#75
My $.02 since I run an S5 NA car and an RTek 2.1.
The RTek is great for what it is, which is a chipped stock motherboard controlling the stock sensors. For someone in Cali it would be excellent, because it doesn't delete any of the factory emissions equipment.
Downsides are that the fuel and ignition maps are pretty coarse... I can see this when datalogging on the dyno. It's not as sophisticated as modern aftermarket EFI systems. Another downside is tuning is pretty clunky (you use a Palm for it), map storage is clunky.
Realistically - for an NA car, they're not that sensitive to the tune so it is perfectly fine. I wouldn't spend the extra money on a MoTeC, Haltech, et al because you're just not going to see much extra power or driveability. Turbo car, different story.
Regarding the cats, I have a SDJ header, shortened, connected to a 3" ceramic pre-cat and a 3" metallic main cat (with air tube). Haven't had any issues, but I only have 2,000 miles on the car since doing all the work.
The RTek is great for what it is, which is a chipped stock motherboard controlling the stock sensors. For someone in Cali it would be excellent, because it doesn't delete any of the factory emissions equipment.
Downsides are that the fuel and ignition maps are pretty coarse... I can see this when datalogging on the dyno. It's not as sophisticated as modern aftermarket EFI systems. Another downside is tuning is pretty clunky (you use a Palm for it), map storage is clunky.
Realistically - for an NA car, they're not that sensitive to the tune so it is perfectly fine. I wouldn't spend the extra money on a MoTeC, Haltech, et al because you're just not going to see much extra power or driveability. Turbo car, different story.
Regarding the cats, I have a SDJ header, shortened, connected to a 3" ceramic pre-cat and a 3" metallic main cat (with air tube). Haven't had any issues, but I only have 2,000 miles on the car since doing all the work.