Is this rotor any good? (pics inside)
12-26-03, 07:43 AM
#26
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Originally posted by hpram99
>What is your deal with "keeping the engine 100% stock"? Stock rebuilds and engines suck, fwiw. I'd hate to say I went to the trouble of a rebuild and install for a stock engine.
It's called 'selling points' unmodified rebuilt engines around here pull a lot more money for resale than modified engines. It doesn't matter what kind of modifications (reliability, safety etc. doesn't matter). Complete stock setup's sell higher. I might mildly port the engine, and I bought pineapples aux-port sleeves but that is about it. I have no problem with these small modifications, b/c a test drive wouldn't show the change. Using 3mm seals would be a little more obvious, harder starting especially is not what I would like to see.
Going through a rebuild to put that on the for sale sign that it has a recently rebuilt motor is well worth the $600 it cost to do the rebuild.
thanks for the help
p.s. 89rxheaven: I was kidding. I'm not going to sell it,
I'd keep it for demo's.
>What is your deal with "keeping the engine 100% stock"? Stock rebuilds and engines suck, fwiw. I'd hate to say I went to the trouble of a rebuild and install for a stock engine.
It's called 'selling points' unmodified rebuilt engines around here pull a lot more money for resale than modified engines. It doesn't matter what kind of modifications (reliability, safety etc. doesn't matter). Complete stock setup's sell higher. I might mildly port the engine, and I bought pineapples aux-port sleeves but that is about it. I have no problem with these small modifications, b/c a test drive wouldn't show the change. Using 3mm seals would be a little more obvious, harder starting especially is not what I would like to see.
Going through a rebuild to put that on the for sale sign that it has a recently rebuilt motor is well worth the $600 it cost to do the rebuild.
thanks for the help
p.s. 89rxheaven: I was kidding. I'm not going to sell it,
I'd keep it for demo's.
In the 80's I ran a natonal deliveriy companies fleet. We had a centralized rebuilding shop (afterall, we could move parts around the country free). The guy i replaced refused to let the shop "punch out" blocks. I changed all of that. Even with the cost of the pistons we saved 250,000. YOUR NOT GOING TO TELL ME THAT I DECREASED THE VAULE OF THE VANS ARE YOU? I saved money, the vans ran great and life was good.
12-26-03, 05:16 PM
#27
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Originally posted by hpram99
>p.s. 89rxheaven: I was kidding. I'm not going to sell it, I'd keep it for demo's.
>p.s. 89rxheaven: I was kidding. I'm not going to sell it,
I'd keep it for demo's.
12-27-03, 12:45 PM
#28
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Originally posted by Mr. Gadget
Going to 3mm is the exact same as punching out a pistion engine to .030 over. It repairs a wear item and makes an expensive part usuable. Its not a mod unless its coupled with other stuff.
Going to 3mm is the exact same as punching out a pistion engine to .030 over. It repairs a wear item and makes an expensive part usuable. Its not a mod unless its coupled with other stuff.
). It would be more analogous to adding another ring groove to help reduce blowby, compression lost, etc.. or using bigger rings. It does (and would) have slight down-sides. You increase the area of metal-to-metal contact, increasing the internal friction. Also on rotary engines it is more difficult to start an engine with 3mm seals.but thanks for the input!
Last edited by hpram99; 12-27-03 at 12:52 PM.
12-27-03, 08:54 PM
#29
If you know so much about rotaries and build techniques, why did you feel the need to ask us questions? You seem to be the one who knows more than we do.
No offense, but you wanted our opinions, we gave them. Two experienced engine builders recommended going with 3mm seals, and you have flatly declined that as an option citing reasons that, at best, strain credibility.
I guarantee you that I could build two engines, one with 2mm and one with 3mm seals and you would not be able to tell me which was which from day one. My current car has 3mm seals in it and has started, idled, and drove fine since day one. It has yet to flood or cause a hard start. It shows 115psi comrpession with <2k miles on it.
No offense, but you wanted our opinions, we gave them. Two experienced engine builders recommended going with 3mm seals, and you have flatly declined that as an option citing reasons that, at best, strain credibility.
I guarantee you that I could build two engines, one with 2mm and one with 3mm seals and you would not be able to tell me which was which from day one. My current car has 3mm seals in it and has started, idled, and drove fine since day one. It has yet to flood or cause a hard start. It shows 115psi comrpession with <2k miles on it.
12-27-03, 09:45 PM
#30
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Originally posted by hpram99
sorry, but I completely disagree about it being the same as punching oout a block. You are correct however about it repairing a worn item which makes it completely useable, but remember, piston and rotary engines are hard to compare to eachother (duh ). It would be more analogous to adding another ring groove to help reduce blowby, compression lost, etc.. or using bigger rings. It does (and would) have slight down-sides. You increase the area of metal-to-metal contact, increasing the internal friction. Also on rotary engines it is more difficult to start an engine with 3mm seals.
but thanks for the input!
sorry, but I completely disagree about it being the same as punching oout a block. You are correct however about it repairing a worn item which makes it completely useable, but remember, piston and rotary engines are hard to compare to eachother (duh
). It would be more analogous to adding another ring groove to help reduce blowby, compression lost, etc.. or using bigger rings. It does (and would) have slight down-sides. You increase the area of metal-to-metal contact, increasing the internal friction. Also on rotary engines it is more difficult to start an engine with 3mm seals.but thanks for the input!
How many 3MM and 2MM?
Any race engine's?
Your shooting down every ones help with logic your basing experience on, yet your asking a question that the same experience should have allowed you to answer your self.
I am done with this thread!
12-28-03, 02:19 PM
#31
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I know people (very few) who have 3mm seals, I have read up on a few 2mm vs. 3mm studies. It's something I am not interested in doing, plain and simple, thank you for the suggestion, I allready considerd it before hand, thus the reason I was wondering if the rotor would be usuable the way it is. I measured it just now, and since the bend is on the one side, it is too far out for 3mm, it would have to be milled to 3.5 or 4mm to work correctly, and I only know of one company that mills and sells apex seals that large. I did not intend to be rude about this, nor have I 'shot down' anyone's help.
The only help I have received has been from RR, he made an excellent point that it will cause the seal to crack from lack of support on one side. therefore I said I will try and bend it back, if it looks like ****, I will buy a new one.
The only help I have received has been from RR, he made an excellent point that it will cause the seal to crack from lack of support on one side. therefore I said I will try and bend it back, if it looks like ****, I will buy a new one.
12-28-03, 03:12 PM
#32
By "bending" this material back in place, you are weakening it severely. You run the risk that later, after a few heat cycles and a lot of centrifugal force inside the working engine, the material will weaken further and either bend again or break off entirely. I would not consider "bending" a rotor a feasible repair method.
Either mill it for 3mm or junk it.
Course, we all know you are going to do what you are going to do, and no one here can say anything to sway your decision. I personally feel it is a waste of everyones time for you to ask these things when you already have it in your mind what path you will take, even if we are telling you it is incorrect.
IT'd be teh same as me asking what color to paint my project car, when I have already decided to paint it silver. IT is nothing more than a waste of everyone's time.
Either mill it for 3mm or junk it.
Course, we all know you are going to do what you are going to do, and no one here can say anything to sway your decision. I personally feel it is a waste of everyones time for you to ask these things when you already have it in your mind what path you will take, even if we are telling you it is incorrect.
IT'd be teh same as me asking what color to paint my project car, when I have already decided to paint it silver. IT is nothing more than a waste of everyone's time.
12-28-03, 07:27 PM
#33
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I did not know what I was going to do before I started this thread, and because of this thread I have received some insightful ideas, one of which was given by RETed, he suggested bending it back. It did not bend in the first place because of stress, it bent because the seal was so worn, it fell out and got lodged between the rotor and the housing. The actual bending happened when I tried to remove the flywheel nut (stupidly) not using anything to stop the e-shaft from rotating but the engine itself. By jumping on the end of a 4-foot long wrench, I managed to move it slightly, at which point the rotor was bent.
I bent it back and it seems fine, if what you say does indeed happen, we will surely find out, and it will be at my loss. I would think you should be smiling at my possible misfortune for being an idiot, instead of getting angry trying to prove your point.
Thank you for your posts to the thread, it's nice to hear from one of the few people that know what they are talking about, but sorry for not following your suggestions.
I bent it back and it seems fine, if what you say does indeed happen, we will surely find out, and it will be at my loss. I would think you should be smiling at my possible misfortune for being an idiot, instead of getting angry trying to prove your point.
Thank you for your posts to the thread, it's nice to hear from one of the few people that know what they are talking about, but sorry for not following your suggestions.
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