ORX705

i'm trying to remove my diff from my 89 TII. i've removed the driveshaft, axels, mounting nuts, suspension sublink, even drilled the rear rubber mounts (for more play). but it won't come out. the f'n haynes manual is no help, apparently you shake a spanner at it and it just floats out!

apparently once all the above are off you place a floor jack under diff and lower it. however it just sits there looking smug

the problem seems to be the front mount, the bolts are off but the studs won't allow much play. i've tried taking the studs out, but they are in there hard and the space is to confined for me to do anything serious.

even the trusty mallet can not help me now
can anyone help?

vaughnc

bankity wackity bump

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

Pry bar................ or...........

I find it sooooo much easier to drop the entire rear subframe, 1 man can do it in 2 hours tops, this is the entire rear assmbly.

~Mike..........

BlackRx7

yes yes you must drop the sub frame, detach the rear controll arms from it too..

Jimmy325i

lol re-attach the rear camber link and lower the subframe down suspended by the shocks and camber link. the two nuts on the side of the front diff mount hold an oval twin holed washer inplace under a ridge in the crossmember. That washer must be removed before the front mount will lift off the crossmember. once you get the two sepparated the rear mounts can be pulled off the studs and the entire assembly will fall into your hands. If you weld the front mount it will take some manuvering to get it back up in the cradle where those studs reside.

Hope that helps

ORX705

thanks heaps.

i had a suspicion that i may have to lower the subframe. just didn't wanna beleive it

do i have to detach the rear controll arms?

this may seem like a silly question, but what did you use as your jack points? i only see the sublink as a possibility, as i don't like using the chassis rails [tend to bend]

ERAUMAZDA

You do not have to remove the studs. If you look under your car there is a rail on the left and rail on the right. That is where you can put the stand jacks. You do not have to remove the studs on front mount. There is a washer that goes around bouth the studs. On the part that the mount attaches to the subrame there is a tab on it. That holds the washer in place does holding the mount in place. Remove the washer and the mount can left straight up. To get more play. Remove the links that attach to the subframe. From the wheel to the frame. They can some out with a hammer and a punch. Take the subframe mounts out also. There is also another arm that comes down vertical to the subframe. Remove that also. Just the bottom bolt. Use a jack and jack at the lowest point on the diff. make sure the diff can't move or the jack will slip. When you jack up the diff the pressure of the springs and shocks will force the subframe downwards. That is if you have the two big *** arm that comes from the wheel to the subframe is still attach. You have so much space that you can fit an airgun with an extension on it. Have fun I sure did. Afther your done have lots of sex and drink beer to relieve stress.

Jimmy325i

ORX,

I had a chasis hoist to use when I did mine. (I love my friends!) so we brought it up with the pads on the rails.

You don't need to remove anything but what I said. there are two nuts holding the bushing clamps on either side of the subframe and then the busing nuts in the center of those, and then the whole thing will swing down about 3" which gives you enough room to pop off the front mount from the subframe and then lower the rear diff mounts off the studs. Dropping the exhaust was the hardest part of mine.

To everyone else....

Why the **** are you guys telling him to take all that **** off??? You're making more work for the guy then he needs! ****! Springs pushing down on suspension parts? wtf? have you guys ever taken a rear shock off? It sure as **** doesn't sound like it! The camber link holds the subframe up so you don't need a jack under it. The diff is light enough that one or two people can easily manuver it into place by hand. No wonder you needed beer and sex to get over doing this job. I had mine swapped in 2 hours and didn't break anything doing it.

ORX705

thanks jimmy

when you say camber link are you refering to the sublink?

just want to get it done. but i'm in the middle of moving house. installing a re-amemiya 2way lsd

Samps

The old differential will come out with the subframe attached, but getting the new one in with the subframe attached will be much harder. The rear mounts on the differential do not like to go back over those long studs. I suggest removing the subframe. You may not "need" to do it this way but it sure makes life easier.

It's kinda like: Would you rather sit in traffic for a half hour, or drive around it for 45 minutes?

Jimmy325i

The camber link is the bar in the center of the crossmember. There is enough play in that link when you remove the front of the crossmember to lower it about 2-4" giving you all the space in the world to get the front mount off and back on again. And when you go to put it all back together you need nothing more than to swing it back up into place. Very simple and painless job when you do it that way. removing the whole subframe and control arms and all that is just extra work and hasstle. That's why I got pissy before when people kept telling you to do all that extra ****. Removing 4 nuts will swing that thing right down to where you need it, and not have it get in your way either.

Samps

You are making it out to be a little easier than it actually is. 4 nuts will get you no place with the differential. There are 4 nuts alone attaching the driveshaft to the differential. There are also 8 nuts attaching the half shafts onto the differential. Then there are two nuts that attach the differential mount to the subframe. Then there are two nuts holding the rear differential mounts to the body of the car. That makes 16! Now if you include the nut holding the bolt in the camber link you get 17. And getting the front differential mount nuts off without at least lowering the subframe a little seems almost impossible to me. There is barely enough room to fit a sheet of paper in between the subframe and the body. I would like to see how you get a wrench or socket on the front differential mounting nuts with the subframe still in place. I would also like to see how you install the new differential without damaging the front mount seeing as how it will need to bend a good bit to allow the rear mounts to slide onto the studs.

Don't get me wrong. I'm the type who will try to cut corners any where possible. But this is something I just did two weeks ago and I remember vividly, how difficult the swap was.

Jimmy325i

I was refering to the 4 nuts which need to be removed from the subframe once all else is removed. I explicitly advise AGAINST taking the camber link out! It's unnecessary, and will cause the whole subframe to flop down in your way. I vividly remember this job also. I had the LSD installed in under 2 hours. How long did your method take?

It's a given that you will need to take the axles off the stub shafts and remove the driveshaft from the front flange, and you'll also need to remove the Y pipe (if you still have one. I recently went to a single) and from there you obviously need to remove the 4 nuts holding the diff in... dropping the entire subframe and removing control arms and all the other nonsense is what I am disputing. Leaving the camber link in place gives you plenty of room to get at the front dif mount and you are correct that it will not come out without loweing the crossmember. (I had to cut the floor out of the parts car I took my diff from because lifting it high enough to clear the subframe was not an option in the garage the car was parked in) <--- now THAT was a major pain in the ***!

Following my method will swap the diff out and leave little more than a single bench pressing of the subframe to get it back into position. I'd do the job again and again without bitching about it.

Samps, I'd hate to see you crying over an engine rebuild when the apex seal springs keep popping out of position. j/k

Samps

O.K. I see what you're saying now. I had thought you meant you could do the swap with the subframe in place as in tightened up and all. I agree the swap can be done by loosening the subframe nuts so it can be dropped down some to access the mounting nuts. I do have a single and assume most people have different exhaust systems which is why I didn't even bother metioning it; kinda like how you never mentioned the drive shaft or half shaft bolts . I will still say dropping the whole subframe is easier. There really is not a whole lot holding it onto the car. The hardest part would be lifting it and moving it around without some help. I guess there is always two ways to do everything and the person doing it needs to make the decision. We could argue this all day long and it won't change a damn thing.



And I don't break motors! (knock on wood)

ERAUMAZDA

your insane the job is about a 4 hour job. When you don't have a lift and all that ****. I just changed my damn mount . HOW THE **** IS THE SUBRAME GOING TO MOVE IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE THE 2 TIERODS, THE VERTICAL ARM, and the two bushing that attaches to the Chasis.

NO ONE SAID REMOVE THE SHOCK?????????

THe force of the shock and the weight of the tire will pull the subframe if you jack up the car. The only good point would be the diff its self to jack-up. Its not that easy either.

ERAUMAZDA

this is just in referance to the front mount......The rest is a little easier.

ORX705

yep, thanks. i'm only having a problem with the front mount.

not looking foward to putting back together. especially the exh link rubber mounts

Jimmy325i

You remove the nuts which hold the subrame mounts in place. This allows you to swing the subframe down off the studs which hold it in place, and the front diff mount while its still suspended by the camber link and the two shocks as well as the puney rear anti-sway bar. Three points of attachment and plenty of room to work.

Maybe it took you four hours because you took apart half the damn suspension when you didn't need to?

Everything can stay attached to the cross member because there is enough play in the system to allow for that motion when the front mounts are detached and the subframe is swung down.

Jacking the car up shouldn't be a problem. I would suggest using the frame rails in front of the subrame mounts for the jack stands and raising the car from the diff itself. Just be carefull of the fuel and brake lines on the drivers side.

SureShot

I'm getting ready to replace my trailing arm bushings. If I'm reading this right, you can lower the front of the subframe enough to replace the bushings without dropping the whole unit?

Samps

This would be the case if Mazda had put a slot in the rear fender wall to allow the bolt in each side of the trailing arm to slide out. Since Mazda did not forsee this. You will need to at least loosen up all of the bolts conecting the subframe to the vehicle. Then you will need to push or pull down the subframe enough so that the bolt can slide out. Once you start you'll see what I mean. Getting the nut off is simple as pie, but the damn bolt is like 3 inches long and there is only about an inch of free space for it to slide out into. You may be able to put the bolt back in the other way to save some future trouble but I was scared it would throw off the rear geometry. The bolts I am refering to are the ones that control the rear toe and caster angles. You MUST get a rear alignment after messing with the trailing arms.

Jimmy325i

SureShot, What samps means is Yes. Dropping the front of the subframe is very painless. It might be stuck on the studs at first and could require a pry bar to get loose, but you should be able to gain the clearance you need by unhooking your exhaust hangars (should be fine just hanging there in space, no need to pull it for this one) and then removing the nuts holding the subframe. With the front diff mount still attached it won't drop down as far as it would without, but you should be able to gain enough clearance to get the bolts out.

Are you using urathane bushings?

SureShot

Everything I've read until today (including the FSM) described dropping the whole subframe just to replace some old bushings that clunk when going over bumps.

I got the stock replacements from Mazdatrix last fall, but was wating for warmer weather for what looked like a full weekend project for me (I'm 59 and work slow but drive fast)
I really appreciate hearing that you guys have been able to get the front trailing arm bolts out by just lowering the front of the subframe.
Thanks, Bill..

Samps

SureShot, Please don't think that getting those bolts out is easy, because they're not. It may be easier than what the manual tells you, but still not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Any one man can do the job alone in a couple of days. I used no air tools and no lift. You should use a very sturdy surface and a good set of jack stands because you will be tugging on the subframe pretty hard.

Also, when you go to replace the bushings in the trailing arms. Be sure to remove the inner sleeves that are steel before you try to put in the new bushings. They will slide out with a few taps with a hammer after you get the rubber bushing out. You can get the steel cylinder out of the middle of the rubber bushing by heating it with a torch until the surrounding rubber melts. Any other questions about this, don't be afraid to ask.

SureShot

Got jackstands, got torch, got Dremmel (in case the old rubber is bonded to the trailing arm socket).
Thanks again,
Bill..