ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the back-up... I try to present examples for comparisons & not just completely talk out my exhaust port. I might be Outrageously Bold, but I'm Not Ro-Tarded.

I think some commentary on Hucksterism is Completely Appropriate. There are "Many Reasons" why the HHO or "Brown's Gas" water & electrode schemes are Doomed to Failure...

The main reason is simply a matter Gas Output Volume. The supporting reason for failure is the non-programablility of modern vehicles.

Now then... if I had a pick-up truck with a water-tight bed or tub & several hundred pounds of shredded aluminum cans and some water & Lye and a dozen car batteries - I could easily power a simple engine with a throttle body & spark plugs by piping the gas from the reactor bed.

Even simpler is the basic gasifier trailers towed behind a vehicle in Europe in WW2 when conventional fuel for civilians was un-available. Lawn Clippings in a Pressure Cooker is the basic idea of organic gasification. There are systems available today that are fully automatic, pallet-sized 20 Kw Gensets that operate on pelletized organic waste or you can shred & mince-dry your own yard waste.

However - There is a way to "Coax" the Snake to Eat it's Own Tail & Slither in Circles inside It's Own Shed Skin...

The Snake Analogy is the Enigmatic Brain Sizzling Reality when we get out of the ordinary Phases of Matter & Enter into the Higher & Lower adjacent areas of Physics.

The Short answer is - Electrolysis is not efficient enough. The Best Solution is to work in the Super-Critical Range of Steam... This condition requires simple anode & cathode "Guides" to seperate the water vapor into distinct streams of H & O2 without an excessive amount of electrical charge as in Electrolysis at normal atmospheric conditions.

It would be nice to have a Plasma Generator around to help out with that...

Keep your vehicle operating the way the manufacturer intended. You will Void any Warranty & possibly Insurance Claims for Illegally Modifying an Emissions Device... I'm sure California has Juicy Penalties for "Tampering".

Hucksterism Abounds...

jjwalker

I have a plasma generator at work...it kills things with ozone

The snake analogy is the enigmatic brain sizzling reality of the S5 intake.

Still got to go through the AFM.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

I find the best way to make VDI or 6 ports work...

Is to copy what Mazda did. Life is good! I sit back and have a beer while you all figure out the VDI.

jjwalker

You mean it works fine from the factory! Say it aint so?

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I did the VDI to S4 previously & at WOT - on my tired franken-motor - I didn't notice much on my butt-dyno... However - backing off the throttle a bit really made it pull hard when it activated... Very noticeable on my B-Dyno...

Perhaps this experience is what got me started on this Topic in the first place.

I had the K&N filter kit that replaced the stock air box & bolted to the AFM in the engine bay & removed the secondary throttle plates (not real happy with that - throttle response was Too Sensitive and bucking at low speeds was difficult to avoid without concentration). The K&N just made the intake louder & I removed it & put the stock air box back in.

Of course, the Stock ECU really seemed to be the Lemon in the box of Oranges... It's just Moronic to think that any kind of alterations without Improving the Control System is going to get any gains except by accident.

I had hoped an improved and affordable ECU upgrade "Might" be available in this Modern Age before resorting to already antiquated "Half-Baked" attempts.

Am I getting this right? Any Help Here? As the Turbo guys Rightly Say - "It's not worth spending more than $1000 on an NA Engine".

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Of course the ECU is a big problem but why would anyone still be working on an "upgrade" for a 30 year old, niche market engine...that makes no power?

My approach to the GTU is to recognize and embrace it for what it really is and give up on all the extreme concepts of what it could be.
My bar for comparison is an LSx swap, which I figure I could pull off for around five grand.
What can I do to the NA rotary for the same cash that gets me an easy 350hp, better fuel consumption, far better parts/service support and such an unstressed and durable drivetrain?

Also, it seems that you began this conceptual journey because your car runs like crap.
Spend the time/effort to get it running properly and then see what should be done.
I've deleted the secondary throttle plates and the entire thermowax system AND have a lightweight flywheel and have none of the jerky throttle response you describe.

The fact that you can "feel" the VDI kick in proves it's not working properly.
Neither the VDI nor the 5/6th ports are "instant on" devices, they do not snap open or closed but rather, ramp up slowly and progressively. This may not have been the original design concept but the implementation via air actuation ensures that it is the result.
If you're getting a "VTEK, yo!" sensation, the engine ain't working right.

mhr650

Here you go full ram air effect. No AFM the ECU uses a MAP sensor for load sensing, inlet duct is minimum 3 inches all the way to the throttle body. Filter is located directly in the airflow under the scoop created by the pop up headlight cover. For a bonus it has an electric solenoid to activate the VDI valve controlled by the aftermarket ECU. Made 200hp at the rear wheels on a conservative Mustang dyno, at full race speed it may even be 201hp.

By the way the EFR turbo stickers are on the car not because we run one on the car, but because we design and manufacture them here at our plant in Asheville.

Dak

I don't think a standalone on a n/a engine would be a waste or would fall under the " not worth spending more than $1000 on a n/a engine" line of thinking. Reason being you get tired of the n/a and go turbo you already have a standalone which you'd end up needing anyway if you want to run anything more than a couple psi above stock boost levels. Besides one could learn to tune on the n/a that's harder to break before going turbo.

jjwalker

I have a 200hp NA S5, other than porting, It's still stock electronically. Don't believe me, ask jackhild.

Rotary performance told me I could gain another 50 hp if I went standalone, and the only reason I have not done it is because I dont want to get rained on.

Got to replace the top first.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Brilliant... Completely Helpful & Inspirational. I was going to Apologize for making such sad NA Lemon-Tations & Say "Pretty Please with Sugar on Top" to Help make my Lemonade not so Bitter...

I'm thinking Mimosa's might be in order if I can identify & locate a proper ECU/Injector Upgrade package that runs a MAP sensor instead the MAF... at a "Relatively Affordable Price"... Used or Otherwise... I could probably justify $1500 but would Hope that Miracles & Magic Exist & something in the Used - $750 range Falls from the Sky - I have Faith in the Rotary Gods...

jjwalker

Girl scout cookies...

Dak

I've seen PowerFC's on Ebay for around 750 before, but by the time you buy the harness adapter( it is actually for the FD) and and another FC trailing coil pack your back to $1000 dollars or more.

You don't need bigger injectors. Stock ones are good till past 200whp and even then 550's from a turbo car should handle all a non-bridged or non-peripheral ported n/a will ever make.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

How about a Haltech E6x & a harness? There's some decent stuff in the classified section...

I just get this little voice in my head that keeps telling me "Use the Search Functions you Rotard" & "Look for Yourself and stop begging others to do it for you" as the Icemark tingles up & down my Spine...

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Of course I believe you- this is the internet and everything is real.

Two questions:
-OK, the engine management is stock but what else isn't? For instance, are the trans/diff and exhaust still original? Did you do the porting or was it bought in?

-To go from your (presumably reliable) current 200 hp up to the promised 250, what else besides the ECU itself has to change?
Injectors, pump?
Will you be tuning?

Neither question is meant to imply a value judgement, I'm after a cost estimate to reach and maintain your desired power level...because as it happens, I think 250-300 rwhp is the sweet spot in a daily streetcar.

mhr650

LS coils $12 each, reman RX8 injectors $45 each cheaper than buying used and then getting them cleaned.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

How about a Microtech LTX 8 & Harness? ECU upgrade opinions & options? Got something growing mold?

Bueller? Bueller?

Must be someone's day off... :P

Dak

Can you use LS coils with the PowerFC? Banzai's write up is modifying the FC's Trailing coils igniter and the using it for the leading plugs spark. I think I am leaning more towards an Adaptronic when the time comes anyway. I bumped into an old friend awhile back who has one on a TII and he's tuned it himself using the self tune feature and seemed happy with it.

mhr650

No idea, I used a MS3Pro. The autotune software in Tuner Studio is fantastic, I have wide band sensors on both rotors and it can even autotune each rotor individually. A few hours driving around a parking lot to tune it and first power pull on the dyno made 200hp, and that is for a crappy collection of parts that are nowhere near as good as a genuine S5 engine, I have S3 GSL-SE housings, and S4 low compression rotors because that is all I had at the time I was building the engine.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

How is the MegaSquirt these days... It had seemed promising years ago... Progress?

mhr650

MS3Pro has very little to do with regular megasquirt. It is a state of the art unit a surface mount circuit board and much upgraded trigger circuit that pretty much eliminates synch problems. It is a very nice ecu, the one bonus you get from the megasquirt community is the very good tuner studio software.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I see the this MS3Pro circuit board for $850 here:

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3-pro-module/

That sounds like what I'm looking for. I can easily swap the unit into a spare stock ECU case from the Bone Yard. That's Pretty F$#% Simple.

I wondering about stupid & silly things like not trashing the Rat's Nest & re-inventing my own & Instead - Getting proper control over the Doo-Hickeys & Thinga-ma-bobs so the "Stuff" can Evolve to be More Functional instead of just trashed... No Cats or Emissions Requirements... but after-burn & port air & the port actuators - because I could use a few Extra Functions & re-purpose the ones I otherwise don't need.

I suppose that Little Voice that says "Look at the Pin-Out on the ECU Chart - You Idiot!" is probably correct again...

:P

Edit: I failed to find the ECU individual pin functions anywhere when I searched - which seemed bizarre - I'm getting the feeling that I've simply seen a "Grail Shaped Beacon"... I might be In Peril! Neverless... Lacking the Re-Enforcing Fortitude of Brave Sir Robin's Minstrels... I should Reflect on the Pure Qualities of the "Holy Grail" of ECU's...

Oh ECU! Thou that is Most Knowing! Deliver Unto Us Thy Servant! So that We may Serve Thy Rotary Trinity! In Thy Mightiness! Let Not the Blasphemers of Antiquated Compromises be Heard in Thy Divine Presence! Lest They Snuffeth!

Let the Factory Values Known - For the Rotary God's Glory! Let the Old Ways be Transformed - Through Thy Mercy!

Let the Lord's Servants of Enslaved Emission Devices be Liberated from their Lower Forms - & Come Closer to Thy Promise of Power & Safety for Zero Detonation & Long Efficient Life in the Service of Thy Glory! Forever & Ever -

scathcart

You must be popular at social gatherings.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Robin's Minstrels tend to run people off. They're Silly Folk... I can easily circle around again & Jump the Shark with something Even More Preposterous!

Even More Bizarre than any Trumpism or Those that might say "What Difference Does It Make?"

- What's un-likely but Truly Over-the Top?

It's Your Forum... What do YOU WANT? It might be too late for the Stock NA FC... it's a tiny market that no one else much cares aboot... why bother even asking God for Help? Is There an Answer?

We Beseach THEE, Oh Rotary God of Exponential Power... Listen to the Voice of Your People!


Let there be ECU to Free the 7! Long Live the RoTards!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i haven't run an MS yet, but so far every ecu has some fatal flaw.

for instance the microtech is really accurate, but the thing is so old you can't save to a floppy disc yet. the Power FC is also really accurate, but all the neat functions are in Japanese, and if you're not willing to learn Japanese, than it is pretty basic. the E6x is kind of a turkey.

the hurdle with the MS is that you seem to need to spend a lot more time learning how to use the ecu than most other ecu's...

actually if one is bucks down, the FD ecu makes a great upgrade for the FC, it is a large amount of work, but the parts spend is low, and its a Map based system

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Thank You... It seems like the "Grail-Shaped Beacon" is, actually, Castle Anthrax... Mostly just knitting fancy lingerie & demanding a Spanking for Being Naughty & Generally Worthless & Bothersome & Needing Incessant Nanny-Bobbing - Yet Never Performing "As Advertised" in the appearance of the Grail-"Shaped" Beacon.

I didn't Vote for this...

I'm over the Farsical Aquatic Ceremonies of Bogus HHO Electrolyzers... This is a Narco-Syndicist-Commune... Real Power comes from a Mandate from the Masses!

Help! Help! I'm Being Repressed!