Icemark

All the links you posted are just simple links for definitions or grade requirements. They have absolutly nothing to do with actual composites of the oil.

And the reason you don't use single weights is because when starting and below warm load conditions the multi-weight oil will flow better and provide better cool temp lubrication.

deadRX7Conv

Reading EdHackett informs NOONE.

I mentioned some of the bad info in that link already.
The rest is for everyone to research on their own.

Or do I need to detail all the worthless data in this link:
http://www.mazdamark.com/Ed%20Hackets%20oil%20test.htm

Icemark

You and I have been there before, countless times, so there's no point. You believe what you want and no post on the internet is going to change that.

But to quote Ed:
So if you really want to prove your point, instead of slaming someone else, prove your point. Post your collected data. Not simple links on how to determin what viscosity is or how to get the formula for ash, but real honest to goodness numbers (that anyone can get from the oil companies) useful in comparing oils from different manufactures or other information that can be proven.

Now that would be useful.

Slaming the work of some professor because you don't agree with the simplified wording is useless.

CrossfireCurt

iTrader: (2)

okay okay okay, sorry to derail your guys' argument, but i've got a question about synthetics. You said earlier Icemark that it was okay to use synthetic oil... what are the benefits, if any to using it? I hear that it's okay to use it, but is it good for the engine? I know the FAQ does say it's fine, but how does it compare to my Mobil 10W30 that i'm using right now? Will i notice anything if i switch to Mobil1 SAE10W30?

deadRX7Conv

Mobil1 is an excellent oil. But, with 3k/3mo oil changes plus quarts used in topping off, it can get expensive. The lastest Mobil1 also meets some ACEA specs you won't see in the regular 5000 and 7500 Mobil oils. All 3 are API SM oils. I don't see the need for the Mobil1 EP oils(only SL).

To notice any difference would require an accurate oil temp gauge, an accurate oil PSI gauge, a dynamometer, and several used oil analyses comparing the oils.

deadRX7Conv

There a difference between simplified wording and blatant misinformation.

Why not link to noria or theoildrop?
For an "informed oil decision", read the used oil analyses(UOA) and virgin oil analyses(VOA) available here:
http://forums.noria.com/eve
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

You'd be surprised that the thin 5w20 and 0w30 oils, widespread 0w40, 5w40 and even 5w50 oils are excellent performers. Its all about "HT/HS" and basestock used, and not about the flash point, pour point, zinc%, or VI.
Shear stability and high temp/high shear rate viscosity are the important specs.
Luckily for us, SAE and API spec HTHS numbers. ACEA(fancy euro spec) takes it one step further with better specs. The Euro crowd is also pushing for low SAPs oils. We won't see them soon enough, but the API SM/CI specs seem to reduce cheaper additives and have stricter performance tests for soot control/wear/viscosity/piston&rings deposits...... which should benefit an oil injected engine.

Innovation

iTrader: (1)

**** guy's, most 7 owners have 100K plus miles on the engine. Stick to a KNOWN good oil and you won't have oil related problems. Don't buy your oil at the local grocery store or 7-11 for 99 cents or you get what you paid for. Give this **** a rest!

Icemark

Again you fail to post anything of importance. I ask you to prove your point:
and you post other links with again no clear information. Nothing that can help the average rotary engine user.

Distill out your "truth" and publish it, instead of just talking crap.

And alphabet soup names mean nothing to 99% of the people out there, so your posting that API SM/CI, and ACEA and crap like that means nothing to any reader of this thread, but you.

I am done with this thread with you. You just don't get it.

r100madness

Easy reading for the layman with curiousities about oils used in your engine

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbi...oil_bible.html

homebrewer

Icemark, it seems you are too narrow minded and stuck in your opinion to consider that you may be wrong.

The fact of the matter is that your internet reference is outdated and bogus and no longer relevant.

Do yourself a favor, go to bobistheoilguy.com and do some reading. You'll learn everything you wanted to know about oil.

The new oils coming out from Europe are fantastic and have a fairly wide viscosity range and don't cause any of the problems you cite.

I'd post specs but you are too obtuse to understand them and refer to them as "alphabet soup". Its a shame that that your knowledge is rather dated. Quite honestly, I'm surprised that you are even using a multi-viscosity detergent oil. Perhaps a nice non-detergent straight 30 weight is what you really think is best based on the illogic you've been spouting.

I gotta go, need to work on building engine deposits on my engine with 10,000 mile oil change intervals using a 5W-40 alphabet soup oil............................................... ......

Icemark

No, I understand the nomenclature just fine, and have spent time on the Bobtheoilguy site as well as quite a few others, but most people here have not. I personally find it rather lacking on any real data that can be used for our members in helping them determin what is the best oil to use.

And again (much like my previous posts) I suggest you publish something that can be used and easily understood by members instead of insulting me or trying to flame. I guess it is easier for you (much like deadRX7Conv) it is easier to say that a reference that I posted is wrong, than to publish something that actually shows it. But then maybe you believe that every oil out there that claims it meets the SAE and API suggested specs for its grading actually does.

For example here is the HTHS (basiclly the high speed shear rate against viscosity) on some common oils...:

Amsoil ASL (non-API) 10w-30: 3.39
Amsoil XL-7500 (API cert) 10w-30: 3.18
Castrol Syntec 10w-30: 3.22
Castrol GTX 10w-30: 3.45
Castrol Syntec Blend 10w-30: 3.48
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10w-30: 3.17
Kendal GT-1 Syn 10w-30: 3.28
Redline Synthetic 5w-30: 3.81

HTHS in very simple terms is the oil's ability to resist shearing. SO the higher the number the harder it is to cut the oil into smaller pieces. I am probably over simplyify here. An HTHS of 2.6 is generally considered the minimum for long term valvetrain wear and rod bearings. Valvetrain wear and bearing wear in most cases drops significantly as you pass an HTHS of 2.9. It continues to fall of very sharply until you hit about 3.6 then it contines to drop off at a slower rate until you hit about 4. Once you pass an HTHS of 4 the only people that are going to see reduced wear are those people severly pushing the limits of their engine. You really can not have too much HTHS as it is not an issue their is no down side to high HTHS numbers in terms of wear. (paraphrased from John Browning, on bob's site)

BUT LOOK IT IS REAL INFO... not just lame links.

Pretty intresting to see that the conventional Castol GTX, is better than even Castrols own Semi-Sythetic (Syntec), against the oil breaking down at temp. Now of course the real test would be to see those same oils at 5K miles, but I have not been able to find that yet.

Wait here is 'nother, how about a data sheet that shows a Mobil1 10W30 flows almost as good as their 5W30 (and burns at the same point as conventional oils-making it rotary safe):


granted it is about 2 years old, But it is for all their synthetic oils.

BUT LOOK IT IS REAL INFO... not just lame links

And what do you think I use for oil; that you feel that you have the ability to question??? Do you know what I use??? I doubt it, unless you have nothing better to do than watch me change my oil, or visit the local oil recycler when I am dropping off my old used oil. And the fact that you will go 10K miles before an oil change, surely suggests that you don't understand filtering failure or acid build up that happens in all oils... I guess you need to read a little more on those oil websites you pray too. Either that of you have 100% perfect compression with no seal leakage at all- but then just because I have never seen that ever on a rotary does not mean that you don't.

Again, I am done with this crap... In the face of your and deadRX7Convs inability to even show one iota of anything of value for the members here in this thread, and too just post links and insult... well it frankly saddens me, and obvously drops the value of your replies on the board.

Kenner

icemark, do you recommend replacing 10w40 oil with, say, 20w50 in a mild climate (pacific northwest)?

Icemark

Or a 10W30 if you are not starting the engine in +90F temps.

RETed

Ban the bitch!

I'll always be suspect on people who tell you to go read something and not offer 1st hand experience.
I tend to like to do things on my own, especially when it comes down to oil selection.

Seriously folks, the debate is endless.
I don't see how even this new Euro oil is going to *significantly* (that's a key word) offer better lubrication (oil's primary responsibility is to LUBRICATE) than the existing stuff that's already out on the market.
Motor oil companies spend BILLIONS on R&D.
I don't think you can make a blanket statement that they all suck?

Calling people narrowminded and obtuse is just uncalled for.
I guess you have no idea you're ******* with a moderator...
*sigh*


-Ted

Innovation

iTrader: (1)

jhammons01

It's funny, almost all the links have Castrol GTX rated very highly, yet the descenting voices seem to skip over that one common similarity. Why is that??? I'll never know.

It's OK to be wrong........just because somebody said something that is different than what you believe does not make them the Anti-Christ. You others don't have to listen to Icemark or me or RETed, don't take our word for anything.....find out for yourself, but don't lie to yourself just to prove us wrong in your own mind. Remember, you're probably never going to even see my car or the oil that was in it, or the engine that is in it. You 'will' see your car and the oil and the engine. Run what you think is best......its your car.

Listen and extrapulate the real data from the links provided. Go to Mazdatrix website and get their take on it. Go to Mazda's website and find out approved oils.

Once you actually consume the free information you'll find that the answer is hidden in your Data......look harder.

3RotorRocket

Depends on the tem. of your location.

10W 30

20W 50

I always use Castrol GTX

buttsjim

It's funny that the title to this thread is "Quick Oil Q". It was lots of things, but not "quick".

I enjoyed the debate though, learned a lot, and I hope you guys don't all stay pissed off at each other!

Mx6-Rx7 Addict

I've run Castrol GTX in every vehicle i've owned. Never had a problem due to oil "breaking down" at higher temperatures or RPMS. My NA FC sees 7krpms + on a daily basis. The day i have a problem, i'll post a follow up, and i guarantee it won't be because of the oil.

-Justin

Icemark

Man; it is the internet... I would be perfectly happy to sit down and have a beer with anyone here (including the people that don't agree with me). Most of us do love (or like a lot) RX-7s and that is why we are here, and at least one common denominator between all of us.

Life is too short to stay angry with anyone (except an ex-wife).

buttsjim

Yeah, these internet discussions will get a lot better once we figure out how to get beer into cyberspace.

rxspeed87

it's not always the persons fault who maintains the car there are things outside just keeping your oil changed and your oil filled up that can cause oil problems


and I worked at a place making oil addatives as well as blending some oils


the stuff with the wider spread.... how we did it? we added polymers
nice big chunks of plastic like stuff that we ground down in a meat grinder and then had it go into a tank to be melted


ask me I wouldn't like that melted plastic in my oil if I didn't need it

edmcguirk

What is the opinion on running 5W20 oil?

I can't find the link but I recently read a good article that compared oil viscosity at operating and higher temperatures and it showed that the actual viscosity differences at high temps are pretty small.

His opinion was that the lower viscosity was actually better because it would flow more oil which would also have the benefit of carrying away more heat. (of course provided that the oil pump and engine tolerances could support good oil pressure at the lower viscosity)

Anybody know the link?