Progressive power steering
09-28-12, 11:49 AM
#1
MazdaSpeed = addiction
Thread Starter
Progressive power steering
Hey guys,
I have done some searching around and have not found what I am looking for regarding the progressive power steering in the second gens.
How does it work, is it engine RPM based, or is it speed based? Looking at the pump it looks like the sensors could be pretty adaptable to other pumps.
Reason is I am looking into swapping the progressive system into the the rack in my mx3 GS. Its quick responsive but too much so when getting on it, really needs de powering when racing. I could plug it off like most but that it not proper. I think to do it right would be to adapt it to a progressive system.
P.S. most will suggest a manual rack, they suck, and it is 1.5 turns more end to end than the GS rack. as well as I am looking to keep it all Mazda and the conversion will be fun.
Any help, input, or assistance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I have done some searching around and have not found what I am looking for regarding the progressive power steering in the second gens.
How does it work, is it engine RPM based, or is it speed based? Looking at the pump it looks like the sensors could be pretty adaptable to other pumps.
Reason is I am looking into swapping the progressive system into the the rack in my mx3 GS. Its quick responsive but too much so when getting on it, really needs de powering when racing. I could plug it off like most but that it not proper. I think to do it right would be to adapt it to a progressive system.
P.S. most will suggest a manual rack, they suck, and it is 1.5 turns more end to end than the GS rack. as well as I am looking to keep it all Mazda and the conversion will be fun.
Any help, input, or assistance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
09-28-12, 04:17 PM
#3
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If you properly depower a rack (i.e. don't look the hydraulics) there is nothing wrong with doing that. If you're concerned about doing it Maval (who rebuilds/remans power steering racks) will do the conversion for you for a bit less than $300. Far easier solution than swapping in a power system.
The four port racks have a 15:1 ratio. The three port racks have a 17:1 ratio. From poking around it seems that the 15:1 ratio came on S4 NA and S4/S5 Turbo. The three port rack are in S5 NA.
The four port racks have a 15:1 ratio. The three port racks have a 17:1 ratio. From poking around it seems that the 15:1 ratio came on S4 NA and S4/S5 Turbo. The three port rack are in S5 NA.
09-28-12, 05:50 PM
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Mazda has two different power steering systems.
the base S5 cars have a conventional power steering system. its IDed by having two lines in to the rack, a pressure and return. rack says FC01 on it and has a 17:1 ratio
the S4 and upper model S5's have a stepper motor and little computer box to vary the assist, you can spot this because it has 3 lines, two pressure lines and a return.
on the S4 cars the assist is variable with vehicle speed, the S5 is simplified it has a low speed and high speed setting.
the rack is a 15:1 ratio.
the variable assist isn't very easy to change over because the pump AND rack are different.
however the mazda 3's have a PS pump that is driven by an electric motor, in addition to being able to put the pump anywhere, assist will change with pump speed, which you could fairly easily make a controller for (i think)
the base S5 cars have a conventional power steering system. its IDed by having two lines in to the rack, a pressure and return. rack says FC01 on it and has a 17:1 ratio
the S4 and upper model S5's have a stepper motor and little computer box to vary the assist, you can spot this because it has 3 lines, two pressure lines and a return.
on the S4 cars the assist is variable with vehicle speed, the S5 is simplified it has a low speed and high speed setting.
the rack is a 15:1 ratio.
the variable assist isn't very easy to change over because the pump AND rack are different.
however the mazda 3's have a PS pump that is driven by an electric motor, in addition to being able to put the pump anywhere, assist will change with pump speed, which you could fairly easily make a controller for (i think)
09-28-12, 06:41 PM
#5
MazdaSpeed = addiction
Thread Starter
See that's what I was thinking of initially, but when looking around did not find much. I found a system made by the same manufacture that makes the electric rack in the RX8 that is an electric pump but was like 700 bucks. If the 3 has an electric pump it may make sense to look into it.
If I go with the S4 or S5 set up I do not think I will change the rack, I will try and keep that intact. I do foresee having to modify my pump or modifying the RX pump to fit my car. I like power steering but I like it to be tight while driving at high speeds, not loose like the MX3 does now. it is overly responsive at higher speeds. you get used to it, but I really miss the steering in my 8.
It would be easy to de power my rack now, but I am one to go over and beyond. I like to keep it clean and as OE as possible.
Thanks for all the help guys!
If I go with the S4 or S5 set up I do not think I will change the rack, I will try and keep that intact. I do foresee having to modify my pump or modifying the RX pump to fit my car. I like power steering but I like it to be tight while driving at high speeds, not loose like the MX3 does now. it is overly responsive at higher speeds. you get used to it, but I really miss the steering in my 8.
It would be easy to de power my rack now, but I am one to go over and beyond. I like to keep it clean and as OE as possible.
Thanks for all the help guys!
09-29-12, 01:13 AM
#6
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Personally I Think with the manual steering the car drives like it is on rails.Tight,good feel and response.
and even though I am not fond of it being a little stiff when the car is barely moving or when parking,I still like the Manual over power.
and even though I am not fond of it being a little stiff when the car is barely moving or when parking,I still like the Manual over power.
09-29-12, 12:12 PM
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See that's what I was thinking of initially, but when looking around did not find much. I found a system made by the same manufacture that makes the electric rack in the RX8 that is an electric pump but was like 700 bucks. If the 3 has an electric pump it may make sense to look into it.
If I go with the S4 or S5 set up I do not think I will change the rack, I will try and keep that intact. I do foresee having to modify my pump or modifying the RX pump to fit my car. I like power steering but I like it to be tight while driving at high speeds, not loose like the MX3 does now. it is overly responsive at higher speeds. you get used to it, but I really miss the steering in my 8.
It would be easy to de power my rack now, but I am one to go over and beyond. I like to keep it clean and as OE as possible.
Thanks for all the help guys!
If I go with the S4 or S5 set up I do not think I will change the rack, I will try and keep that intact. I do foresee having to modify my pump or modifying the RX pump to fit my car. I like power steering but I like it to be tight while driving at high speeds, not loose like the MX3 does now. it is overly responsive at higher speeds. you get used to it, but I really miss the steering in my 8.
It would be easy to de power my rack now, but I am one to go over and beyond. I like to keep it clean and as OE as possible.
Thanks for all the help guys!
plan b might be something like what they did to the FD, the steering is too light in those too, sometime in the 98-99 they put a restrictor in the pressure hose. you could also find/make a larger pulley for the pump.
you could also add castor to the suspension
i agree the Rx8 steering is really good, the FC is actually much lighter all the time
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10-02-12, 12:05 PM
#8
MazdaSpeed = addiction
Thread Starter
you can't use the FC system without changing the rack, the 3rd line is where the pressure is varied
plan b might be something like what they did to the FD, the steering is too light in those too, sometime in the 98-99 they put a restrictor in the pressure hose. you could also find/make a larger pulley for the pump.
you could also add castor to the suspension
i agree the Rx8 steering is really good, the FC is actually much lighter all the time
plan b might be something like what they did to the FD, the steering is too light in those too, sometime in the 98-99 they put a restrictor in the pressure hose. you could also find/make a larger pulley for the pump.
you could also add castor to the suspension
i agree the Rx8 steering is really good, the FC is actually much lighter all the time
That's really good input. The pics I was finding online of the racks only showed 2 lines, I did come across a used rack that had 3 but thought it was a fluke. so perhaps the others were not the proper racks. I think an electric pump may just be the way to go, but I do like the thought of putting in a flow restricter and a larger pulley to see how it will react then. I still have not had the chance to look into the pump from the 3 but I am more concerned about the system having a divorced control management unit vs being integrated into the main ECM.
A friend suggested I hook the power steering pump to a switch and just turn it off when I want better steering feel, but I really just want to take the time and do it proper.
Thanks again for all the input guys.
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