ddub

What's your fuel setup going to look like? What kind of turbo are you going to be using? How much boost? Intercooler? Wastegate? Etc?

I'm curious

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i have done the same on my turbos, nothing scary about it... though my flapper was not this large and i did not double the washers i simply used one mid sized one and ported the port a few mm smaller than the flapper. i used my highest heat setting on a 150amp MIG welder and the welds came out quite strong.

first, it has held fine even under some pretty heavy abuse for a few months now at least and second, even if it does fail it will act like a default thermostat stuck open causing a loss of boost and the flapper ejected from the exhaust with no damage to the turbo.

here is a pic of one of my more recent ones, though i did not port it as large but it is fine for a ported stock turbo.

scathcart

Little story along similar lines for you.
A few years back, here in BC, a local electrican and his 5th term apprentice were doing some live panel work in one of the electrical rooms at a shopping mall. The panel was 347/600V on a 1600Amp main breaker...
The apprentice tells the story of the journeyman dropping a copper bus bar and having it cross the lugs of the panel. While 600V is technically not high voltage, the arc was enough to instantly ionize the air in the electrical room, setting the two in the room on fire.
The journey was killed, and the apprentice ran out of the room, burning, and was put out by the janitor in the hall. The burns on the apprentice covered more than half of his body.

High current is nothing to take lightly.

RETed

No bent fittings, period.
That's the way I see it.
You want shortest path.
You want highest drain point.
You want smooth transitions, if the oil drain line has to turn.
Adapter fittings just add more restriction.
Turbonetics states this explicitly in their catalog.


-Ted

RETed

Um, I'm serious.
I realize that if the flapper door fell out, the worst would probably be less boost, if anything.

I've had very good results with ported wastegates without molesting the stock wastegate flapper.
That's why I disagree that the flapper should be even changed.
I would rather keep the stock flapper and just port the WG orifice more.

I think I got enough experience with welding and turbo turbine parts to understand what's going on here.
A friend has a TIG which I had recommended he get; he's glad he got it instead of a less expensive MIG.


-Ted

RETed

This is getting a little off-topic...

Doing some quick calculations...
600V x 1600A x 4 (instantaneous peak current, although it's probably higher)
...equals 3,840,000 watts
Converting to horsepower, it's over 5,000hp.
This just gives you a relative idea of what kind of "power" we're talking about.

Looking at those numbers, it doesn't surprise me what had happened.

I've seen automotive electrical 12V shorts on 2AWG wire that instantly vaporized when shorted with no proper protection.
The wire was running from engine bay (battery) to the rear of the vehicle and created a ONE FOOT wide burn path from front to back!
I don't mess around with electrical safety.
In fact, I tend to really paranoid about electrical circuits.


-Ted

Whizbang

did i mention that this car is ridiculous

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

Did i mention that your avartar is rediculous? J/K if that form family guy its great. That car is going to be evil!!! Aaron what are oyu manifold design plans? Anythying like what Sonicrat has for his turbo kits? (That **** is INASNE!!!) Aayways that car looks amazing, i just realized i have a can of red Metalcast in muh garage if use it on my engine if i wasn't against painting anything until its fast

rarson

Good update, I look forward to seeing it run.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Just a quick note to say that the engine was installed yesterday. Most of the day was marked with rain, so I built a makeshift tent over the entrance of the garage where the manifolds, water pump, turbo, etc. were installed, and then the engine finally hoisted into place during a wind and lightening storm.

Only two minor problems, which are easily solved. First, my oil drain simply doesn't fit. The fitting sticks out of the pan too much, and as luck would have it, there is a slight bump in the subframe directly in that area. So the straight 1/2" NPT to -10AN from the pan will need to be replaced with a 90 degree 1/2" / -10, and the 90 degree end on the pan end of the hose will get replaced with a straight. Second, one of the clutch bolt threads is damaged on the flywheel. No big deal, as I'll pick up the appropriate tap (only the 1st or 2nd thread is bad) tomorrow and simply install the clutch later on before I install the transmission...

Either way, next comes all the other engine bay stuff like the rad, coils, fuse box, etc. And then the wiring can start.


Microtech LT-8s running ~800cc primary, 1600 CC secondary. Fuel pump is as of yet undecided, but I am currently looking at the Aeromotive in-tank pumps, or simply running two Walbros in parallel. Aeromotive regulator, parallel fuel rails with pulsation damper (either Marrin, or a regulator with a buit in damper). Fuel filter will be Mallory, and of course all connected by the appropriate size braided stainless and AN. The turbo will be the GT35R, likely a 1.06 hotside or larger. The 1.06 is kind of on the small side, but boost will be instant. Currently undecided on wastegates and intercooler. For now, I'll simply be using my old setup of a front mounted TII intercooler since I'm using the tiny stock turbo for breakin/testing purposes.

Certainly not. And what most people don't realize is that DC is worlds differnet then AC. Since we all know that AC crosses 0 volts 120 times a second, arcs tend to self extinguish. DC just happily keeps on arcing, through almost anything. At 12V it's not so much of a danger that it is at 30V and above, but we all know how well 12V can melt almost anything with the current available in a typical automotive battery. 600V at 1600A is nothing to sneeze at...hell, under full accelleration my Insight will pull ~100A from it's 144V pack, which is still 14KW, and Honda has done a VERY good job in wiring the car safely.


I don't know. I've never seen SonicRat's turbo kit. I can honestly say I don't pay attention to any NA-turbo kit it's actually on the market and selling, because I've never actually seen one get that far...The manifold I am building is a standard plenum design. Picture the RE intake, and you start to get the idea.

NZConvertible

Aaron, I know you and Ted rarely see eye to eye, but I have to back him up on the turbo drain thing. In fact I had a post saying pretty much the same thing half typed last night when my internet connection spat the dummy. I've heard exactly the same advice several times over the years, and the importance was stressed each time. Drains should be big with minimal bends and always drain to a point above the sump oil level. If it were me, I'd rethink that set-up. It would bother me...

Ted, I have a plain ol' zinc plated, mild steel washer TID'd to my wastegate flap, and all is still well many months after install.

karism

Very nice job there Mr Aaron.
Lot of effort into that engine

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Meh, a similar setup (with a LOT more bends and restrictions) worked fine in my original setup, so I'm not worried about it at all. The only issues I had with my original setup was that the rubber hose used failed at least 3 times, but there were no problems draining.

The current drain for the stock turbo is a little less then ideal, but it's only for breakin/testing. Once I go to the big turbo, there will be only one 90 degree bend (where it connects to the pan), but it will still drain below the oil level in the pan. I'm not expecting problems there either.

Really, problems with the oil drain are the absolute furthest thing from my mind right now, as I have proved in the past that draining below the level of oil in the pan works just fine.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Well since you're reluctant to put your money down, I'll blow the lid off my little scam. You see, a while back I wanted to port the crap out of my wastegate. Not being in the possession of welder or die grinder, I journied to Mr. Cake's residence. I did the griding, Mr Cake did the welds. I brought a number of extra washers in case it didn't work on the first try. When Mr. Cake decided to do his own wastegate, lo and behold he found the washers I left behind and used them on his own wastegate. In other words, he's using the same washers, same machine and same person to weld on his wastegate (granted I've noticed an improvement in his welding skills since then). Mine has well exceeded your time to failure prediction.

rarson

Personally, I agree with both you guys. I think NZ and Ted are right that they should have the minimum bends possible, but I have not personally experienced anything that proved that. However, that doesn't mean nothing will happen. I think the setup will be okay for break-in. Good luck in getting that car running, Aaron.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I'll say it again regarding the oil drain: a much worse setup (regarding bends and restriction) worked flawlessly for a year with my original setup. Case closed.