240sxMiataMan

I wanted to pick the brains of the group for a sec and see if anyone has any thoughts about an engine swap idea that myself and a few of my buddies come up with. A bit of background first since this is my first noob post here so no one wants to kill me to badly.....

Most of my work has been with Nissans(SX's), done CA and SR20 swaps, even helped do a RB drop into a S13 a couple of years ago, that being said I'm pretty technically minded when working on my rides. I'm a recent move over to the Mazda crowd with the purchase of my 99 Miata, which I have determined to be a very fun car for soloII. I have a friend locally with a 89 probe that is running a FE3 motor in it currently. We have spent some time on the dyno running his motor and we are now at 400FWHP at 23psi, while making about 370lbs of torque, and this motor is just nutz in comparison to other 2.0L(sr for one) that I have been around.

The reason I ask this question in this group here is because I'm thinking of building me a RWD FE3 car. Now I know a guy by the name of Danny who has done the conversion in a miata, personally I don't want that little of a car with that kinda power, but I do want something RWD. This brings me tot he 1986 to 1992 RX's. I don't know a lot about them but have always like the cars. I was curious if anyone can see any problems with putting a RWD FE3 motor in one. The plan is to fabricate motor mounts, and get an adaptor(which exists) to run a turboII tranny, custom drive shaft, some type of standalone(TBA), and build the turbo kit.

I'm curious really about the motor mounts that exist in the RX stock, having never seen a picture you can image why I'm curious about the orientation of them. I will continue to search the net but if anyone has some photo's or links that would be great. Likewise I'm curious the weights of the different models of RX's, that too I will search for but if anyone has any info they want to share to help this project get rolling I would appreciate it.

Just for the record, I'm not anti-rotor, just don't know how comfortable I am with them.

TIA
JB

SureShot

Some of the folks here are passionate about rotaries in 7's so keep you flame suit handy.

The short answer is yes. There are people putting upwards of 600HP to the turbo driveline.

These guys like V8's http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/

240sxMiataMan

Well being that I'm a die hard car guy anyway I can understand their passion. If someone chooses to not help because of the fact its not a rotor thats his business. I will likely get out this weekend and find me a RX in a yard to look at the feasibility of this myself as I'm not one to generally trust 100% of the info I find on the web. You have to earn respect with others before they trust you, and you can generally pick someone out of a group thats full of it or knows a lot of it.

I just hope they want to help me do something somewhat unique, course I'm not in it for the WOW factor, I want a light car with lots of power, fun for 1320, and a sleeper on the street.

ForsakenRX7

Well the RX is definatly a good chassis to start with. The engine bay is massive in comparison to cars of relative style and size. Ive seen a second generation 7 with the SR20 swap here on the net, I wish I could find the site again cause I'm sure it would be helpful to you. Looking at the motor mounts in my 90 (which is easy since its gutted under there)I can tell you that it appears that once they are removed the possibility of fabrication of new mounts would be a cake walk for someone with experience. The cars are very capable, I'm sure you'll enjoy em whether their rotary powered or not.

turbo-rotary

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 240sxMiataMan
[B]:

Now I know a guy by the name of Danny who has done the conversion in a miata.



I know Danny pretty well. I have helped him a lot with his Miata. We could never really make the FE3 in that car run properly. It kept on blowing Head gaskets. It is really not that hard to make it work. Since I have seen the swap in the miata pretty closely. (Worked on the car numerous times) If you want any more info e-mail me at hwmalik@***.net

240sxMiataMan

Yeah I figure it would be a fun car for sure. The chassis looks to be very good, probably much like a SX in how its set up and drives. I'm sure these car's aren't the best for drag racing more road racing too but I luckily do both so maybe I'll get a good machine for that out of this. Only problem with doing both is for 1320 stuff I'll probably be using a 60-1 for power needs, while it spools decent on a 2.0, its not exactly something you want for daily driving, luckily the FE3 can pull some 8000rpm revs with valve spring upgrades so that should help out some.

dr0x

I dont see a problem with doing it. But youd hit 400rwhp faster in a rotary. Pretty do-able on a stock motor, most others require to be built up more. Not just have a large turbo and injectors thrown on (in a nut shell).

240sxMiataMan

I am going to take some time and learn what I can about rotaries. I might not even decide to do the swap after I learn some stuff about them. I have this whole board to read on so I should take home plenty of info on the goods and bads.

thanks for the advice

ZenRXSeven

Rotaries are great, and they're really not hard to understand at all. The thing is that a lot of people are afraid of them because they are so different and they know so little about them that they just dismiss them immediately and don't even try to understand. They're actually much simpler than piston engines. I don't have much mechanical knowledge or experience besides the two months that I've owned and worked on my T2, but from working on it and reading this forum, I can tell you that I've learned a lot. It's gotten to the point where I'm much more comfortable working on rotaries and I'm hesitant when it comes to working on pistons!

Welcome to the forum.

Oh, and /hijack, before I forget. . I'm not to up on my engine codes. What engine is the FE3? Miata 4-cyl.? SR20 is the 2.0L 4-cyl. in 240SX's, right?

240sxMiataMan

FE3 is actually a Mazda/Kia/Ford motor, 2.0L completely square motor(bore and stroke the same) with one of the highest flowing 4 cylinder heads on the market. It comes in a AWD car in AUS(not 100% sure what car) and is mostly swapped into FWD cars in the US(probes, mx-6s). Now the Kia Sportage has a RWD configuration of the setup that is sometimes swapped into the miata or other RWD platform of your choice.

SR20 is a silvia/180sx motor(jspec 240sx). Models include the blacktop and redtop S13 motor(205HP 200lbs of torque) (89 to 93 US body styles), and the S14 SR(220HP, 210lbs of torque) in the US body style SX(95 to 98). Lastly there is the S15 which has a black top motor with 250HP and 230lbs of torque, no US counterpart. The motors increase in price as they increased from chassis to chassis

RB was a skyline motor, RB20DET(2.0L inline 6, 220HP at its highest level of stock configuration, came in R32 skyline). RB25DET(2.5L inline 6, with 250HP, came in the R33 model skyline), and the RB26DETT(2.6L inline 6, TT, came in the GTR models, R32,R33,R34(chassis)

Needless to say I have probably already confused you worse but thats the break down on the popular nissan motors that I have messed with.

ZenRXSeven

Actually, I got pretty much most of that. Thanks! :-D

240sxMiataMan

I am a fountain of worthless knowledge at times. Some of the really cool things about the FE3 is the fact its a square motor(2jZ and SR20 are both square). Typically square motors make very good HP and torque. Iron block with DOHC head make it a good flowing motor. Not 100% sure what Danny or someone flowed it at but it was up there with a Type R head. The valve train is very sturdy and with a simple valve spring upgrade(VR6) you can rev it to about 8000RPM. My friends setup is a 60-1, with a T3 stage 5 .63 exhaust housing, full ball bearing. Tial 40mm wastegate, FMIC, 780CC injectors and full SDS system. We are currently stuck at 400FWHP and 370lbs of torque cause the boost controller won't allow us to go higher with the wastegate spring we have. The injectors are currently at about 70% duty cycle so we think another 100WHP is obtainable once we get to about 28 to 30psi. The real question is how long the head will stay bolted down. WE have already lifted it once(didn't retorque head bolts...DOH), no we have and went up about 40lbs of torque on them too. So far the AF shows no signs of detonation, 12:5:1 on race gas across the board. Power delivery is very good

Here are some pictures and a dyno graph or two:
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...dername=Photos

The 407 dyno pull is the one we lifted the head on, as you can see the car is spinning quite a bit at the track, but 124MPH traps are pretty neat.

hypntyz7

You can make a set of motor mounts for a 2gen 7 as easily as you can for anything else...they sit down low on the subframe, about 2 feet apart, symmetrical to one another. Just like working on an s-10 truck or something, couldnt be simpler.

The only point of concern is the oilpan...it has to clear the steering rack and the subframe. I would also wonder if your transplant engine is taller than the rotary...in stock form, the 2gen rotary is less than 2" from the bottom of the hood...anything much taller wont clear. I know some of the ford and mazda engines that came in probes and mx6's had tall valve covers, so you should investigate this.

Another obvious point of concern is the need for a custom bellhousing adaptor, flywheel, etc. All in all, Id say its more trouble than it'd be worth, but hey, each to his own

ZenRXSeven

Oh, and what do you mean when you say a square motor? Square as in not a rectangle? But, squares are and always are rectangles, but rectangles are never squares... or something, lol. No, I'm just confusing myself. But what about the set-up of a square motor makes it superior to a non-square motor?

hypntyz7

importboi22

keep the 13b.... you will be happy you did.. TRUST ME ..... look at some of the stock 3rd gen guys pumping out 380 hp at 15psi with a gt35/40.... just turbo kit stand alone and fuel management and hello 11's! you'll spend that much money just gettin a stock FE3 motor in there

ZenRXSeven

Ahh, square motor. I get it know. I must have just glanced over that part. :P

BlackRx7

it would probably be cheaper to get a TII motor and get a bigger turbo and stand alone and all the other stuff needed, rather than going throw the pain to fab teh car to take the FE3, and to build a trubo kit for it...

I've only worked on rotaries, never even touched a piston engine be sides changing the oil, and with a very small amount of mechnical knowlege and with the help of the FSM and a rebuild video, i pulled my motor, rebuilt it and got it started. The hardest part is cleaning the damn engine parts...think about 60% fewer moving parts in a rotary, it only have 3 main compenents that move, 2 triangle shaped rotors and the eccentic shaft (crank shaft)

more info here http://travel.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine.htm

Really....come to the darkside

240sxMiataMan

I'll have to keep that in mind when looking for a possible Turbo II car. I need to find one and drive it first to see if I like the power delivery of the rotary. I like torque quite a bit, not sure if it will satisfy my need for that.

thanks for the advicel