jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

You are new to this forum so I will be the first to tell you this. If you have any problem, with overheating or oil burning or flooding, the entire chorus will chirp Rebuild Time! This is a sport similar to Bear Baiting. There is a perverse victory to being the first poster to pronounce your motor blown. They have not done this to you yet, but you are going to hear it.

Don't panic on this. Rotaries burn some oil. This looks excessive, but you could be alright for the time being. Since you don't have a cat, you are going to see every bit of the oil that is burned.

So, the first video is warm, the second video is cold? You need to drive the car some more to check out how it behaves warmed up and driving.

First thing is change the oil to a Castrol 20w50. You never know but that the guy put a lower viscosity in. Rotaries don't like thin oil, especially when they are a little tired. My wife's car uses 5W30. I put a change of that in my car last winter (had it on hand didn't want to drive to the store *again*) and got lots more smoke on startups. The oil usage was pretty high on that thin oil.

Your trading 'Buddy' could have also been premixing-that would add some more to the smoke.

Change the oil, see what it looks like with the engine completely warmed up. It will probably be greatly reduced.

Your compression numbers don't look right. posting two numbers makes it look like you have blown both rotors. That is unlikely. If you have max compression in the mid 90's, your compression is pretty good.

Good Luck!

ifryrice

If it weren't as commonly true that the motor needs a rebuild, this probably wouldn't be as popular.

The second video looks like an oil control ring has failed completely. Prolonging a rebuild can essentially increase the cost of the rebuild in these scenarios.

Typically they'll clear up when warm at idle, but under load it can mimic James Bond!

The amount of pre-mix to cause it to smoke that much would be pretty severe!

I'm pretty sure he was indicating the range (ie from 90 to 93psi)

sho_shane

Check, And when I drive it after it is warm it does lightn up a little. But not much. Then if you romp on it the car behind me had to hit the brakes it was so think. It is for sure oil. I can smell it.

ifryrice

It would seem as if the control rings are probbly broken rather than just actually leaking, so I doubt using the brake fluid trick will help you much. It's hard to imagine them just crapping the bed with no warning, so I think you may have been duped a little when you traded.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Oddly, my experience is exactly opposite.
My tired, high mileage, low compression engine smokes much more- and has higher oil consumption- when using 20w/50.
A recent pre-winter oil change to 10w/30 has almost completely eliminated smoke, even at cold start.
No idea why this might be but it's definitely so.

flaco

iTrader: (7)

ok rebuild time thats it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

12AllWays

iTrader: (20)

Just change the oil with some good 20W 50 and maybe even a bottle of Lucas oil stabilizer and go from there. How is your oil pressure?

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

All rotaries need a rebuild, especially if you ask a rebuilder. In fact yours is juuuuussssst about ready so come on down...

X-Ray eyes?

You got some 'splaining to do here, Lucy.


My car *always* gets laid under load. By a Russian. Woman.

Not severe premix, it's just a little stern.

Clairvoyance and X-Ray eyes???!!!

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I seem remember you mentioned something about that when you were chasing the oil-temp bugs.

I was concerned about additional oil burning when I shimmed my thermal pellet this summer. The oil pressure came up nicely, both at idle and on the road, but I didn't experience any appreciable increase in consumption.

I see absolutely NO smoke once my cat lights off, 2-3 minutes. I get a little puff at startup and if I drive off immediately and wrap it up I get a tiny little drift of smoke, but by the time I'm a block away it either stops or the cat burns it off.

ifryrice

could you be more specific? I have 5 so that's kind of leaving it a bit vague.

Do you have eyes at all? The only thing that'll cause a non-turbo to smoke that badly is either someone playing one hell of a prank on him, or failed oil control rings. Of which i've seen at least 20 times in person and had the pleasure of repairing...


Carbon != good. Burning that much oil produces an exceptional amount. If you can't figure out why this will eventually lead to spending more money later, I suggest you rebuild a rotary or two.


At least it's doing something right


I would've considered that clever if the sentence hadn't specifically related the severity to the amount.


Is context too much for you?

sho_shane

ok, I just needed some help. I guess I got messed over. Well this really sucks. I dont know what to do. I can try to save up for a rebuild and do it myself. Or I ave a wrecked cutlus I can swap the 350 motor and 700r4 into it. What would cost me less to do?

ifryrice

It depends on the condition of your current engine (hard to know until you take it apart). Try pulling the exhaust off and see what you've got going on inside the exhaust ports.

sho_shane

Are these guys good ppl to get a rebuild kit from. They are the cheapest iv found. http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/home.php

ifryrice

They have good prices, and their rebuild kits are OK. I'm not a fan of how they run their business or a lot of other things they've done in the past though.

12AllWays

iTrader: (20)

Have you changed the oil yet? Something as simple as I stated before like 20w50 and some lucas can make a huge difference. I know becouse I have done it.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Rotary Aviation's basic kit is like 500 bucks. I think in your case it'd be better to give it to a rebuilder and have him spec everything out. Then only replace what you need to replace and buy the stuff separate. You could do it yourself too but it will take more time. If its going to stay N/A don't go crazy with replacing everything.

If you're sure its the oil rings then you should confirm by verifying low oil pressure to rule out an external issue.

sho_shane

Ok, My oil pressure guage in the car does not work. I really want to do this rebuild myself tho. Iv never done a motor rebuild but I think I can do it if I take my time. The reason I was thinking the full kit is cus if Im going to pull it all out and a part im going to do some kinda port job on it.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I can tell you from personal experience that the V-8 swap ain't nearly as easy or cheap as it might first appear.
There are myriad little details that must addressed- many of which won't appear till you're already hip deep in the process- and the incidental costs mount up in a big hurry.
Properly done you'll end up with a hell of a car but the journey is tough.

The cheapest alternative is to have your engine rebuilt by an experienced builder.
It's not that the rotary is so complicated- it's not- but there is a fine line between useable parts and junk and only experience will teach you where to draw it.

Especially given that this is your only car, can you afford to experiment on it?

flaco

iTrader: (7)

they didnt ripped off you said the car was fine >............ then you ragged on it and you broke it ...... your fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sho_shane

I did not rag on the car. I reved it one time... Not even to full redline.

I cranked it up this morning and there was no smoke at all. then after warmup I let it sit for 15mins or so and alittle smoke started to come out. Then drove it to the part store to return the comp tester. Drove fine there with a very little smoke. I let it sit in the lot running and it was fine. So now its been running for 20min or so, Then on the way back to my house I see that the temp has gone up a little more then half. So I hurry home and kill the car. So whats all this about, Whats going on with me car?

EnjoiPugs

This is great advice. I didn't realize when I was getting into my first rebuild how much time, money, blood, sweat, and tears were going to be put into this thing. I bought parts and then bought more too. Because I didn't know what I was looking for in the beginning. I ended up buying lots of new tools and for the cost I could have had a decently used t2 swap done by now. BUT, in terms of experience and learning all of that was very little in exchange. If you have time and another car, which it seems you dont, I would try it. But, if not, pay a mechanic or do the t2 swap.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Have you been watching the amount of oil in the motor as it has been smoking for the past couple days? If it runs out of oil, it'll overheat and you'll scorch the plates.

It happened to a friends car we just picked up. Was owned by a old lady that the oil rings went out on. She had no idea what happened, just noticed it smoked a little. Kept driving it till it was out of oil then kept on driving it. She stopped when she noticed it was overheating and sold it to my friend. We pulled it apart and the center iron and rear iron were cracked. The front iron was warped. All soft seals were cooked and hard seals were warped out of spec.

I actually had to torch the rear rotor to get the side seals out of it because they were stuck. The only usable piece of the entire motor was the front rotor which most builders wouldn't consider in spec because of the side seal clearance (the slot had gotten smaller to the point that the side seal would not spring back up once pressed down).

sho_shane

Well guys let me tel you where I am. I have no money to pay someone to build a motor. So if its going to get done. Im going to ave to do it. I dont want to TII swap cus the turbo motors are not as reliable as the N/A motors. Im not afriad to get my hands dirty but I do not have exp in building any motors. I really want to try this. What I really am trying to do is trade off my Zex kit for another full motor and rebuild that one.

I have been watching the oil usage

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Building rotaries isn't hard, theirs just a bunch of small parts that need to be put in in the right order.

If you feel up for it, theirs manuals on here in the FAQ section that show every individual piece of the internals of the motor, what needs to be replaced during a rebuild, what tolerances need to be checked on what, etc. It goes into great detail about a lot of the internals.

When I changed my first motor in my car, I couldn't tell you the difference between the alternator and the starter and I managed to get it done so you shouldn't have a problem.

Although, im going to say try the brake fluid in the oil and different weights of oil before you start pulling the motor out of the car yet.

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

i mean honestly get a rebuild video and sit in your living room watching your video and doing the rebuild at the same time i had never done a rebuild before i attempted it with the video and it ran ,ran good to sold it to some guy when i lived in miami