Isn't it dangerous to use that? I though you weren't supposed to use anything with propane or butane....

 

Here is a link to an article with pictures of a Porsche 928 that burned following a dyno run.

The article is considered 'discredited' by HC supporters because it is an an automotive A/C trade magazine. It comes over pretty balanced to me.

I have a good friend (lives 2 blocks away) that has a business servicing the 928 community. http://www.928srus.com/ He is friends with all the people named in the article. I realize this qualifies as 'the friend of a friend', so take it however you may.

HC refrigerants were pretty popular with the 928 crowd until this incident.

My beef with the HC crowd is that I just can't make the stuff work worth a crap. I can make everything else work, so it isn't my skills.

 

link please?

 

My appologies, I didn't post the link.

http://www.imcool.com/articles/airco...erant_Fire.htm

Again, the article is considered 'discredited' by HC supporters because it is an an automotive A/C trade magazine. It comes over pretty balanced to me.

 

ive been on this forum way too long and getting older too. Seems like a couple of months ago this thread was up but hell that was last summer, and the summer before that and the summer before that!

 

Resurrection!

Question: How long does it take for the A/C system to get cold after a "cold" start on a 107 Deg day?

Do alot of refrigerant leaks happen while the car is turned off due to increased pressures?

 

it depends on what refrigerant you are using. my freeze 12 gets cold quickly. espetialy if the car is in the shade. On an arizona hot day (100s) if the car is in the shade the cabin is like 80 or so and freeze 12 gets cold in (40s) within the first 30 seconds or so. if the car is in the sun the cabin is like 120 and it takes the freeze 12 about a minuet and a half to get down to the 40s. i have never used r134a on my 7 so i dont know what to tell you on that one...

 

Did you use two or three cans of freeze-12 when you charged it?

 

Anyone ever have the fan not blowing as hard as it should on max power? A friend's FC seems to pump air harder than mine so I think that's the main problem my AC system is having right now.

 

MOTHER OF GOD PLEASE JUST ARCHIVE THIS THREAD!

 

I used 2 cans but i would recomend buying 3 cans because you might need to top it off later or something, its just good to have that third can.

 

I think I used two cans.

 

+1

 

Can you replace the pressure switch without having to release and refil the coolant? Or does it not have one of those one-way valves?

Mine seems to be fubar. (it has no connectivity)

OTOH, I guess I need to check the pressure first.

 

Anyway. I just got done getting my A/C to work after it didn't work for like 2 years.

1. Went on ebay and bought the Freeze-12 kit. The guy shipped it out Hella fast.
When I got the package I had.

3 cans of Freeze 12
1 Can of Leak detector and sealer.
1 Can of Lub

It also came with two fittings to retro fit to Freeze-12 and the hose with valve.

Cost me about 50-60 dollars shipped.

After reading the instructions I really didn't want to remove the valve mechanism since that would require vaccuming and I don't have a recovery system for the little R-12 that was in the system. So lucky I had some gauges for R-12. To use these gauges with your freeze-12 you need to purchase a can tap. It looks like a huge nut cracker with two fittings sticking out the side for those who never used/seen one. One fitting is threaded for R-12 the other for 134a. I got the Can-tap online for 12 dollars shipped.

2. With the car off I hunged the gauges from off the hood. Make sure on the gauges the valves are closed. I Connect the BLUE hose to the LOW PRESSURE side of the A/C system. Make sure the hoses are free of moving parts. Turn on the car and allow the car to warm-up to operating tempatures. Turn the A/C to Max Cool so that the compressor can turn on.

3. Im not an A/C tech, but at this point the gauges were reading Vaccum. I assume this is good and it tells me there are no huge leaks in the system or that the system is empty as fawk. LOL. I decided to use the leak detector and sealer first. I guess if there are any leaks it will bleed out red from one of the fittings before you start wasting the other cans. BTW the leak/sealer contains half Freeze-12 so take that in consideration when filling the system.

This can is smaller than the Freee-12 cans. Your can Tap should have came with an adaptor so it can hold smaller cans. WEAR GOGGLES!!!! Actually I wore a face shield. I've never tapped into a high pressured can before.. I mean the worst that can happen is the thing can explode or slip out of the tapper and spary the contents everywhere, the worst in your eyes.

SHAKE THE CAN and the can taps easily and locks in.

4. Run the YELLOW hose into the R-12 fitting on the can tap. Open the gauge for the LOW SIDE slowly. you don't want to surge the system. I've heard you can damage the compressor like that so be easy. I throttle the car a little and held it at about 2500 rpms and I watch the gauges start to rise out of vacuum. You have to feel if the can is empty/warm to know its empty so its a watch and feel kinda thing. Make sure you have some towels handy cause the Leak/Sealer can has all this red crap that I got every where and on my shoes lol. "Noob"

5. Close the low side now and Remove the can from the yellow hose. Get a small plastic bag to put your cans in. WEAR GOGGLES!! The can may still be under pressure. Release the "nut-cracker" slowly, some of the sealer will bleed out the puntured hole so its messy.

6. Bascially repeat the steps with the Freeze-12 cans. It will take you about an hour to do 2-3 cans. Mazda doesn't tell you what the pressure should be so I would not go over 3 cans or you will risk blowing the system-up. I think anything over 75psi on the low side is like the yellow zone.

When done remove your gauges and close the hood.

Right now im enjoying cool A/C...its not the COLDEST..but its cold for under 100 bucks!

 

It turns out that one of my lines had come unscrewed, so that's why it wasn't working...

I tightened it and refilled it with one bottle of the cheap stuff, and one bottle of the 9-dollar a can uber-R134A... for some reason the bottles seemed to take like 20+ minutes to empty...which is wierd.

My system isn't totally full (I can still see bubbles), but now it blows so cold that my hands get numb from it... damn, that is some good stuff. (supposedly it's 50% colder than normal R134A)

Also, I had to buy a 50-dollar high/low gauge because the dicks at the Stealership wanted $40 dollars to hook a gauge up to my system and tell me what it says. WTF! So I went across the street to autozone and bought the gauge. Of course, when I hooked it up it said ZERO and I was like "huh?" until I noticed while I was refilling that the hose was unscrewed... I'm glad it wasn't a leak.

 

Some times on the highway my rx tells me shes over heating, so i pull over immediatly to find that the coolant is completely full and there seems to be no actual sign of over heating, then when i start it up everything is back to normal. anybody got any ideas what the hell is going on?

 

I have a problem in my AC system that is not due to the freon level or fuse. Not only does my AC clutch not engage, the fan (for heater and AC both) doesn't turn on. The button doesn't light up for the AC when I push the button either. I have 12 volts at the AC fuse and the fuse is good. I have read that it might be my Logicon but the thing that baffles me is that the cruise control and rear window defrost went out the same day. Is there some electrical component that I need to hunt down or is the AC problem due to the logicon and my other problems due to other issues and merely a coincidence?

Thanks in advance.

 

It could be due to the logicon. Check for 12 volts at the compressor (single wire, engages the clutch). If its not getting there then its possibly the logicon or the high-low switch.

 

I'm aware that the a/c system holds three cans of freon but if it were to be refilled with just two cans would that pose any problems with the operation of the system being only filled to two thirds of its capacity.

 

a few things could happen, firstly poor performance of the AC system, second it could just not work at all, the compressor has to sense a specific amount of pressure in the system for it to kick on. so it might not even come on, but then again ive seen systems with damn near no freon in them still kick the compressor on so i think whats most likely to happen is just poor performance.

 

I have to say I've had little luck with the r134a conversion. The first time, I used compressed air to flush all the old oil out of the system, replaced o-rings, got an oil charge and 2 cans of r134a. The connector at the condenser on the hot side was split so I hunted for a replacement. The lines on the turbo and non-turbo models are different sizes. Why? I then got a replacement evap, lines, drier, and condenser from a non-turbo car and it all went in fine. I blew all the oil out of the parts this time also. I put 4oz of pag oil in, 1 can of r134a, and about a third can of the 20oz size r134a and oil charge can. I charged to the middle of the blue on the dummy gauge. System ran decent the first day, ok the second, and now my compressor is just about seized up. It's very hard to turn by hand and seems to stall my motor if I push the clutch in too fast. It didn't do that the other day.

In my experience so far, 134a has been a poor choice. I did a conversion on another car and the compressor started to moan, then the shaft seal blew out. On this car, the compressor started to moan when I Was filling, then the noise went away. I would assume this is because the oil was starting to circulate in the entire system.

Questions:

1) How effective will a vacuum be at removing all the oil from the system
2) Is there a difference in the compressors for r12 and r134s systems?
3) Was not vacuuming the system my mistake?
4) Do I need a new expansion valve for the r134a? If I do, why?
5) How critical is replacing the drier with a new one?

 

Not at all.
Not any more, some compressors many years ago could not tolerate the new oils (pag, ester).
Yes, one of many.
You will probably need one now, but just because you have trashed your system. The OEM mazda txv is fine for 134a.
How critical is wiping your *** after you take a dump?

You have a real mess on your hands. Your system is pretty much trashed. Your best bet is to replace everything forward of the firewall. Everything.

Couple of things: NEVER NEVER NEVER put PAG oil into a system that has had any R12. The PAG chemically reacts with the Chlorine from the R12. If there is any residual mineral oil left in the system (and there is) the chlorine is in the oil. Always use an Ester oil instead. Both PAG and Ester are very aggressive in absorbing water from the air(hygroscopic). The Ester can be dried out with difficulty, but the PAG chemically reacts (evolving heat in the process) and cannot be dried out.

For the record, there are some advanced PAGs that supposedly do not have the 'bad' characteristics but these are only available from professional sources (NOT napa, autozone, orielly's etc.)

Why do so many OEM cars use PAG, given the pitfalls? PAG is a better lubricating oil than Ester, so in a clean new system, the compressor is more likely to pass the warranty period with no issues. If the system never has any contaminants the system is good.

Your compressor is likely shot. You should get a different compressor.

You need to completely flush every part of the system with a solvent to remove the PAG ****/residue.

You may have what is called 'Black Death' as well. This is the little bits of aluminum bits stuck into all the PAG ****/residue coating the entire inside of the system. It looks like black grease. If you don't remove it, the next compressor will go bad as well.

If you have the Black Death, you need to also flush the evaporator and REPLACE the condenser coil.

Cheap mineral spirits will work as a flush. Flush, soak, blow with air. Repeat 2x. Many commercial shops use this if they do not have VOC requirements to work with. The vacuum will remove all the residual mineral spirits.

Also get a new expansion valve. (all these 'new' parts can be used from the forum)

Get a new filter drier. All the new ones for the last 10 years or so are rated for R134a as well as R12.

If you insist on using 134a, the requirement is to use a high-pressure cut-out switch. It mounts on the 3/16" port on the high pressure side. This prevents your system from burning up with the higher head pressure that 134a will yield.

http://www.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?S...t_Code=57807MD

If you don't use a switch, then you need to under charge the system to prevent excess pressure. This of course limits the capacity of the system. OTOH, the switch will cut the compressor off at times, also lowering the capacity at peak times (initial cool down, hot humid weather in traffic etc) but at least the system will perform well 85% of the time or better.
Personally, if I were using 134a, I would also add a parallel flow condenser http://www.ackits.com/c/Parallel/Par...+Aluminum.html
This is the right way to assure that your converted system functions at peak performance.

Seal the system, add 1/2 the oil to the compressor add the other 1/2 to the condenser.

Test it with a vacuum to assure the system is tight. This requires a REAL vacuum pump (not air powered) that can pull 29.8" of mercury or better for over 20 minutes. The vacuum should then hold for 30+ minutes after the pump is turned off.

If it holds a real vacuum, charge the 134a directly into the vacuum. Charge 80-85% by weight of the R12 required.

You need a good set of 4 port gauges and a vacuum pump. If you can't borrow them, rent them.

Use this forum as a source of A/C help. http://www.autoacforum.com/

These guys are mostly professionals that will have infinite patience with you. They know you have limited knowledge and will seriously walk you through step by step.

 

pffttt ac?
who needs ac when you ave a sunroof

 

When you are literally dripping with sweat from the heat, I think you might need some ac. Sometimes a change of dry clothes might not always be within reach.