rxspeed87

when idling my oil pressure is touching the bottom line on the stock gauge and at around 2000rpms or so it will read about 30
when warm it usually idles at 30 psi and right around the 60 psi marker and I'm kinda at a loss as to whats going on.

it doesn't seem like I have any massive leaks that could bleed oil pressure and it only seems to do this when cold. once wamred up it does just fine.

the car is an 87 sport
I'm using 5w30 mobil 1 mainly chose that weight due to the weird weather as of late. low 40*'s high 30*'s it seems during the night at times but yet still able to pull high 80's at times during the day.

but any idea whats going on? with the no cold pressure?

it used to be 30psi or so cold and at 2000 psi or so it was around 40-psi or so

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Eccentric oil thermostat is stuck/sticking. Essentially, you need to pull the front hub and replace the thermostat with a bypass pellet. Please read the FAQ on the Mazdatrix website which explains both the thermostat problem, and potential disasters when pulling the front hub.

http://www.mazdatrix.com

rxspeed87

forgive me if I sound like a dumbass here.
but I always thought the if the thermo pelet was sticking it would cause the motor to with low pressure all the time.
where normally your oil pressure is low when cold but once warmed up the pelet moves and then pressure goes up.
but usually you still have pressure
right now at idle ONLY when cold I have no pressure reading
at 2000rpms it jumps up to 30 psi
if I am cruising down the road it will stay at 30 (if above 2000rpms) then once the oil is warmed up it starts to rise up to around 60ish area so something must be moving at a point there



can a sticking thermo pelet really cause no oil pressure at idle only when cold

and I tried looking at the FAQ might be blind (wouldn't shock me) but I didn't find anything

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I thought you said "warm". That's what I get for answering a post at 11Pm after a VERY long day...

First, verify pressure with a mechanical gauge. Senders fail fairly often. There's nothing oil temperature dependant besides the thermal pellet and oil cooler thermostat (which can't cause your problem). So I still believe that it is thermal pellet...It's a mechanical device, so it can have odd failure modes...Something that should be replaced regardless...

Now, another possibility is that the o-ring between the front cover and front iron has blown out. Normally this is characterized by very low oil pressure at low RPM, but increasing to almost normal oil pressure at high RPM. The only way you can really check this is to pull the front cover.

rxspeed87

damn either way not something I want to do :-(

guess might go off to buy a mechanical gauge... something I have been wanting to do anyway though.
but just curious how much damage can this cause?
the zero oil pressure at idle only happens for about 5 min give or take and then it is back up to normal oil pressure 30 at idle 60 at 2000 or above.


just stumps me that it seems to be cold only
so I don't quite think it would be the o-ring though guess that it could be, though thinking about it it does seem that the oil pressure is just a tad below the 60 when driving and it is warmed up
thermo pellet should go anyway I know and be replaced.

are there any quick fix ways that might help out with this issue till I get the time and money to fix)
maybe some sort of oil flush (though not sure how well the rotary would like it), MMO, or something that might help clean out the stuff from sticking? it seems that when my oil gauge was at 60 on idle at near the 110 part during 2000 or above... hell sometimes even going past the normal reading operation of the gauge putting some mmo in there and some miles on it that the oil pressure went back down to normal.



but yeah on to the main question
if it is thermo pelet anything for a temp fix?
and if it is the o-ring how many hours am I looking at and how would I do it. plus how can I make sure the o ring doesn't fall out again?

NZConvertible

No, you should replace it with a new one.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Damage is caused by oil starvation. Wear on any moving surface at an accellerated rate.

There will be no "quick" temp fix, though running a higher viscosity oil will raise pressure somewhat, but won't flow very well when cold.

Replacing the thermostat with a pellet is about an hours job IF you have an impact gun to remove the front bolt.

Front cover job is much more of a pain in the ***. Figure 8+ hours, more if it's your first major work on the car.

The o-ring should NOT have failed to begin with. Read the FAQ on the Mazdatrix site for tips on reinstallation.

locketine

I am dealling with this right now. still...... my thermal pellet seems to be good. it's closed completely at low temps, but is open too far when heated to 140F like the service manual said to do. I measured aprox .34" instead of .24 like it should be, this wouldn't cause low oil pressure though I'm guessin'.

I've got the front cover off and didn't even notice any o-rings except the gigantic one on the E-shaft. the pump and the the oil pressure control valve also looked good. can I assume it was the O-ring and put it all back together?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

If the o-ring between the front cover and front iron was MISSING, then that was probably your problem.

rxspeed87

don't think this would do it but I am wondering
I did run some seafoam in the car a little while ago and my car has about 210-220k miles on it? don't know for sure though being that the speedo cable fell out at 70mph around 202k miles.
with the higher mileage I'm sure there is going to be a little more blow by into the oil system right and I think the oil seals are a tad weak as is being engine braking at around 5000rpms or so lets a littl smoke go out so does reving up to around 7000 rpms

with running this seafoam in the motor then letting it sit around 5 hours or so do you think some of it might have bypass the side seals and oil seals to make it into the oil?
if so if enough came in there that could cause this I am thinking being that stuff is only as thick as what? water?

though I also kinda wonder how good the gauge is right now
I see at times I am running 45 psi at 3000rpms while others I am pulling a whole 60psi at the same rpms

aaron with the bypass pelet how since it is pushing oil into the rotors at all times at slows warm up how much does that hurt reliability during cold starts would you say?

rxspeed87

ok now it is getting worse. warm or cold at idle the pressure is 0psi!! if I hold the gas at around 2000rpms the pressure is 0
if I bring it up to around 2800rpms or so it stays at 0 for a second then starts to rise
but if after rev it to 2800 rpms and then driver around at 2000rpms the pressure stays around 45-60 psi range
the readigns at times though seem a little spaz.
I mean you can't watch the needle move
but at some times running this 2000rpms the pressure is 60
at other times it is 0
at other times it is 45
but why would I have to rev to 2800 rpms to get ANY oil pressure?

WAYNE88N/A

How old is the oil filter?

Also, tap on the sender unit below the oil filter tower and see if the gauge moves, when it's at 0...

rxspeed87

oil filter is maybe 1000-2000 miles old
today it kinda scared me
was driving on the freeway the car was reading 0psi when I was cruising around 2600rpms
reved it to 3000 no oil pressure
4000 no oil pressure and I held it there for a few seconds (stupid I know but it seems to get the pressure) but after reving to about 5000 rpms the pressure just came on


it is almost like the oil is being blocked by something till the car revs up a bit then the pressure comes on and will hold
but once I hit idle and the pressure drops to zero it takes a good strong rev to get the pressure back
least that is when cold

now it is starting to act up when warm and I'm broke right now so can't really afford a mech gauge

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You need to verify this problem with a mechanical gauge. Beg or borrow. DO NOT drive the car until you have eliminated the possibility of a mechanical problem. Based on your new evidence, I would assume that it's simply a faulty sender. BUT YOU NEED TO PROVE THIS. If you drive with low oil pressure, you are going to be replacing an engine soon.

I doubt that the SeaFoam would have caused any of this, but don't use things like this anyway. They'll do nothing at the best, and cause damage at the worst.

toothpicsk8

uuuh is it ok that at idle my car runs at 30-60 and when im driving its almost touching 120 or whatever the line is at the top?

rxspeed87

where exatcly is the sender located at
pics would be nice to help out.
seafoam was a cheap attempt at hopefully unsticking my secondary ports since I do not want to undo the whole intake to fix them.
I'm almos thinking the sender myself though being it just seems random and seems to want to stay at zero at 2000 rpms but then goes up at 4000rpms then when back down to zero it will start to hold pressure again

at idle is when it drops though and once it drops it is a pain to get it back but once I have presure the pressure doesn't go away too easily unless cold

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

That's probably a faulty sender.

The sender is located under the oil filter. It is about the size of a golf ball, sticking out the side of the engine. There is one wire connection.