eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

So, since getting no indication of oil pressure after trying 4 different sensors, I resorted to cave-man methods of removing various oil lines in the attempt to get oil to spray all over the place... I eventually removed the front cover oil line (that goes to the oil cooler) and cranked for 5 seconds, but it remained bone dry.

So, there's obviously something messed up... lol.

I removed the front E-shaft bolt and then removed the 10mm oil pan bolts and front cover bolts.

I pulled off the front cover and am in the process off inspecting its "insides".

At this point, I would simply appreciate some suggestions and ideas as to what might be the cause of the no oil pressure.

I know there's a little 'woodruff key' in the chain driven oil pump that might play a part, but I've never disassembled the oil pump, so I don't quite know where to look for it...

Also, could the OPR or something else have failed?

Any suggestions as to what might be messed up would be appreciated.

Right now I'm going to remove the "stack" of spacers, spider bearings etc. and inspect all their conditions.

Thanks!

RoadRaceJosh

Go to http://iluvmyrx7.com/ and start going through the FSM for your car. There are even helpful troubleshooting guides for things like low or no oil pressure. Give it a try!

Makenzie71

pull the oil pan off and check for blockage in the sump...that'd be the first place I'd start. Then move around to your gear/chain assembly up front. Then inspect all of your oil lines. I'd also make sure there was oil in the car, but I'm sure you've covered that.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

The two spider bearings are fine, like, one didn't "drop" or anything...

I'm just confused, everything looks fine, but oil hasn't gone anywhere! WTF could be the problem?

Something to note (that might be unrelated): After removing the spacer 'plate' with the 6 front gear bolts, The front gear slid gently out. I don't think this is a big deal, but with the E-shaft protruding out, I decided to "tug" on it and feel how much play there was. By pulling it towards me, it moved a decent amount (probably 2mm?) and 'clunked' as it stopped. I did this several times; pulling on the E-shaft and pushing it back in, "clunk, clunk, clunk", back and forth. Now, I know there's supposed to be SOME play, but how much is too much?

Back to the topic at hand; I sprayed compressed air into the little hole in the bottom of the oil pressure regulator, but no air made it through to the 'top' where the front cover O-ring goes... Is this supposed to be a passage? Or is it just a little dimple or something?

Oh yeah, I felt up inside the oil pan and the oil pick-up tude WAS there.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

By sump you mean the pick-up tube, right? (different terminology, lol)

haha, yeah there's oil in the car.

I've got the Atkins video to 'mirror' the front cover assembly, so at least I know that, that was put together correctly (although it doesn't hurt to "re-do" it).

I'll go ahead and remove the pick-up tube and give it a close inspection.

Can someone refresh my mind as to what "path" the oil take? Like, after being sucked up the pick-up tube, where does it travel next?

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

On my way to iluvmyrx7.com.

thanks for the response,

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

[QUOTE=eriksseven]I sprayed compressed air into the little hole in the bottom of the oil pressure regulator, but no air made it through to the 'top' where the front cover O-ring goes... Is this supposed to be a passage? Or is it just a little dimple or something?QUOTE]

I meant oil pressure control valve, NOT regulator.

Either way, does it sound like I should replace it?

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Alright, I looked at the "lubrication" diagram in the FSM and have a much better understanding of the oil system...

I removed the oil pressure control valve and everything looked fine, I mean, there's only a spring, pellet-thing and the 21mm bolt-end with the hole in the middle... What the heck could possibly "fail" in this? So that looked good...

Perhaps THIS is important. I JUST noticed this, but I have TWO different types of oil pick-up tubes? One has a large diameter ROUND base, and the other has a much smaller diamond/gasket shaped base... Could me using the wrong pick-up tube make a difference? Also, why the change in design?

Anyone care to offer their insight?

Makenzie71

what year car and what motor?

(I'm not sure if there's a difference...)

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Alright, nevermind, I don't think the difference in oil pick-up tubes matters.

I'm really at a loss here... What would the symptoms of a bad oil pump be? The one I removed spins around just fine, and the little 'inside' rotors move around like they're supposed to...

What's going to happen here is, unless I can get some more advice, I'm just going to put everything in exactly the same way it was already (cause I can find nothing wrong), but since *4* oil pressure sensors/sending units have registered at *0* psi, is there a way to MANUALLY check for oil pressure? I already 'cranked' the car with the front-cover, oil cooler line removed and no oil came out...

What else can I do?

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, the oil passages at the bottom of the 3 TII front iron I've got sitting around are the same diameter, and share the same gasket. One of the oil pickup tubes just has a base that's the same shape as the gasket (that mates to the underside of the front iron), wheras the other two have a round base that is much larger, but still retains the same diameter passage and gasket...

felixwankel88

make sure u have a oil pick up tube gasket on it, i dident have one and it allmost destroyed my engine, BTW u and me have about the same luck with 7's hehe

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

haha, What up D-stone!

Yeah, the gasket's there...

Can ANYONE give me tips as to HOW oil-pumps, or oil pressure control regulators "fail"????

I've got three of each, and ALL of them appear to be in the exact same (working) condition, so I don't know if I'd achieve any benifits from swapping them etc.

Does anyone think it's a good idea to attach the oil-pump and chain etc. to the front iron, and try cranking my car with the front cover OFF???

I really just want to see results, even if it means getting oil everywhere... I simply don't care, lol.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Check the FSM. There are specs for clearence in the trochoidal gears in the oil pump and how much the oil pump chain can deflect. If those are in spec, when you put it all back together, remove the oil filter, (you can also remove the oil pressure sending unit instead), then check for oil pressure while cranking the engine over.

The first rebuild I did, I forgot to install the o-ring between the front cover and front iron. I had no oil pressure at the guage and after 6 hours of running in the shop, I toasted all 4 bearings and the e-shaft. Since it was my first rebuild, all I had bought was a gasket set to see if I could do it. Not a big deal, just hadn't planned on replacing bearings and e-shaft.

Also make sure the pickup tube isn't leaking at the gasket.

Bearings do not last long without oil. I think mine lasted as long as they did from all of the assembly lube.

If you have oil flow, after assembly, check the gauge, they do fail occasionally.

You can try your idea, and yes you will be cleaning up oil. It may take a bit of cranking to get it going. Oil pumps rarely fail. It is usually the pickup, the o-ring, woodruff key, or chain.

What you might try is putting the oil pump together, on the motor, without the chain, and spinning the pump with an electric, ( or preferably battery powered) drill. Just chuck up an extension and socket and spin away.

felixwankel88

i cranked my car with the front cover off and barley any oil came out, of that hole to the front cover area, so im pretty sure u need a very strong flow of oil thru that

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

huh, well I'm simply at a loss...

I already tried removing the oil filter (dry) and the oil pressure sending unit... Neither of them had any traces of 'new' oil.

When I had the oil pressure sending unit out, I cranked twice for 15 seconds and didn't get any oil on the paper towel I had sitting in front of the little hole...

Where would be the best place to manually check for oil pressure?
BUT, on my last rebuild the same 'no oil pressure' thing happened, and people told me to remove the oil filter and check for oil. There was no visible sign of oil in the filter, but THEN I replaced the sensor and saw that I DID have oil pressure! So, from my practical experience, removing the filter after a fresh rebuild and cranking the motor shows NO SIGN of oil.

I didn't know what to expect out of the oil pressure sensor hole, but I assume that if the filter shows no sign of oil, that the sensor right below it, probably wouldn't show any sign either...

HAILERS

The suggestion above that mentioned using a drill motor to turn the oil pump with the chain off of course, sounds like a real good idea. Just make sure the drill turns the pump in the right direction.

If you for some reason decide to put things back together and spin the engine, I'd suggest removing the sparkplugs so there is less of a load on the parts as you crank. By loosening the oil filter a couple of rounds OR removing it completly, you should see oil spurting everywhere if the pump is working. I'd even loosen the *B* nut on the oil line b/t the engine cover and the oil cooler to make sure it's not a blockage in the cooler.

The drill motor on the oil pump sounds like the better way to go, as long as you turn it in the right direction.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

I actually can understand that I see no oil up at the filter and pressure sensor, BECAUSE, my oil-cooler was practically drained completely while the motor was out... Therefore, since all the oil passes through the cooler, wouldn't it (in a sense) have to "fill up" before oil would reach the filter etc.?

Also, before I read the FSM and better understood the oil system workings, I disconnected the oil line that goes IN to the turbo and nothing came out... On reflection, even if there WAS oil pressure, it'd take awhile for oil to get that 'far' by just cranking...

I think what I'm going to do is, spin the oil pump using a drill, and I EXPECT it will show that it's working. I'll then buy an after-market oil pressure gauge and screw it into the sensor location and see if THAT gets a reading.

Hey, there doesn't need to be physical OIL at the gauge to read pressure, correct? Like, could the sensor remain dry and yet 'see' the pressure?

HAILERS

Nah. I think you won't see any pressure til you see oil. Air compresses, liquids don't.

If you see oil when you spin the drill motor, good. Once you put the car back together I'd still leave the plugs out and spin the enine til you see pressure on your gauge or oil spilling out the loose oil filter. 'There's no load on the system without plugs installed and it spins faster AND you don't wear your starter out as much.

About the oil cooler. Oil won't fill the cooler due to a thermostat in the cooler inlet. It won't fill til the oil temp gets over 150 or so, then the thermostat opens and the oil fills the cooler.

I've always been a candy *** upon rebuilding my motors. I get a squit can and fill it with oil. I take the filter off and fill each hole in the filter base with oil. This takes awhile since the oil drains towards the cooler from one hole and to the engine e-shaft from the other hole. In other words I prime it a bit before cranking.

I really do like that drill idea though.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Update:

I bought an aftermarket oil pressure gauge and an adapter to run a 'socket' on my drill...

Installed the oil-pickup tube with the correct gasket and fully tightened.
Installed the oil pump and ran the pump using a 17mm socket attached to my drill.

OIL EVERYWHERE! haha

I realized my fatal mistake the entire time I've been trying to achieve oil pressure...

It's the fact that when I had been cranking (a couple days ago) when I tried my 4 different pressure sensors/sending units, my SPARK PLUGS had been installed.

Like people have mentioned, this creates unnecessary stress, and I had FORGOTTEN how big of a difference their removal created when 'cranking' the motor... I.E. MUCH FASTER.

So, my next step is to install the aftermarket gauge which came with the correct fitting and CLEAR PLASTIC TUBING? Question; will this hard vac. hose stuff be able to work once the oil gets hot??? I can't see it working, but then again I've never ran an aftermarket oil pressure gauge...

My original intentions were NOT to keep this gauge functional and mount it in my car, but can I, if I so desire? (it doesn't sound safe to me, but, anyone?)

I predict my rebuild will be running within two hours. (oww!)

Thanks for the help guys,

HAILERS

I've run one of the oil pressue gauges you describe but always left it in the engine bay or tied it to the wipers when comparing the stock gauge with the aftermarket gauge. I've run it for a year now just laying b/t the firewall and the trail coils. It does not leak. It will not leak. I think it's a SunPro. Cheap but accurate. I compared its reading with a Fluke pressure transducer and it compares favorably.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

I have my oil pressure gauge mounted where the radio was, and it has the clear tubing. No problems so far, I like my carpet. The tubing kinks very easily, so give it plenty of room for bends. I made loops in a couple of place, instead of making a sharp bend.

Btw, the drill idea is how you prime a V8 oil pump on a new rebuild. Wish I coild take credit for that one.

88rx7gxl

the clear plastic line works OK just be careful when you try to unroll it and straighten it out. It likes to crack pretty easily. I has one plastic line blow a hole in it before. If your careful when installing it, and make sure there is no ruff edges where the hose is going through the firewall you should be OK.