maxf

Hey all,

First, let me introduce myself- my name is Max. I'm a relatively new driver and I'm pretty new to the tuning scene. I just turned 16, and I have had my 1998 Saab 900s (five speed) for a little over a year and have little done to it. Among other things, mods include shocks, springs, wheels, tires, some lighting things, and some audio stuff. Nothing important.

I'm here because I'm considering getting a new car. My main interest is in a 2nd generation RX7, but I may also look into a Nissan 240sx (with a plan to swap an SR20DET into it.) I have spent the past few days reading over as many posts as I deem relevant, so I've finally decided to make my first post.

I have no specific question at this point, but I would like to know what you all think of your RX7's. I'd like to hear about problems, fixes, engine rebuilds, costs, etc. What I don't want to hear is all of the stuff that would be the selling points ("My car is great," "Don't get anything else" etc etc).

I'm trying to be as realistic as possible. I'd like to get a car that responds well to modifications and doesn't require a ridiculous amount of tuning to keep it running. If I got an RX7, it would be my daily driver. With this in mind, I'd also like it to be quick while still maintaining its reliability.

My plan is to get a TII and do your "basic" performance mods- an engine management system, new fuel pump (and other fuel components), new turbo, exhuast system, etc etc. For those of you that have done these kinds of mods, have you ran into many problems? Are these cars easy to tune? Do they stay reliable? Were the mods hard to install?

I'd like to know as much as you're willing to share. At all costs, I'd like to avoid buying a car that poops out on me. Keep in mind, with your response, that I do NOT have much experience with modifications and what not, but I'd really like to do work and learn more.

As a side note, I do have many tools readily available, such as full car jacks, jackstands, engine lifts, snap-on toolsets, etc etc. What I don't have is a mechanic around here (Kansas City, Missouri) that knows anything about RX7s, or rotary engines for that matter.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

I daily drove an N/A FC (FC = 2nd gen RX-7) for five years without a problem.

A TII on the other hand would be different, although I'm about to attempt that same thing. Except it only has to last two years as a daily driver.

If I was (well, I guess I am, still not used to having the TII, just picked it up last week) daily driving a TII, I would keep the power modifications to a minimum. Maybe intake, exhaust, and some sort of fuel control and tuning. That alone would produce a reliable car with plenty of power.

The rest of my modifications would be in the area of suspension.

Of course, there's always plenty of other things to do - aluminum radiator, gauges, etc. And there's always plenty of things to fix. Like the wiper switch, the logicon, the sticking sunroof, the headlight switch, the blown hatch shocks, etc, etc. The youngest FCs are 14 years old, so they do have their problems.

MakoRacing[FC]

First off, 16 yearolds that want to buy sports cars and modify them scare the hell out of me.

How long have you been driving? Id suggest sticking with your Saab and driving it around until you feel that you can't learn anything from it anymore, when you feel that you are in complete control of it at all times then its time to move up to a better car. Maybe then go to a NA RX7 or a Turbo, judge for yourself what your ready for. At that point when your comfortable with your next car like how you were with your Saab its time to start modifying it, and by that point you should be able to judge its strengths and weaknesses based upon your driving style.

maxf

Yes I'm very aware of the fact that young drivers such as myself pose problems not only to others, but to themselves when they get a car, especially a sports car. I've been driving my Saab for just over three years (it was my dad's car) and I feel like it's ready to move on because I don't think that my current car is a good platform for modifications. Please try not to let my age become an issue/factor here, because I think this thread could be useful for others as well.

JerryLH3, I really like what you said. I like the idea of getting the car and doing some basic modifications and slowly working my way up as I feel comfortable.

Again, I'd like to know some more problem areas with the car. Besides the "minor" things mentioned by JerryLH3, is there anything else that is common? How about with the engine? Apex seals, for instance. Do those usually blow when people tune their cars incorrectly? Or can they just go at any time? Thanks again.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Properly tuned and taken care of, rotaries are as reliable as any other engine. A turbo wouldn't last as long as an N/A, but both are just fine.

The more power you try to squeeze out of it, the lower engine life would be. Of course, it also depends on how much you use that power. If you're boosting stoplight to stoplight, don't expect 150K+ miles out of a TII engine.

When shopping for an FC, try to keep an open mind between N/A and turbo. The N/As make great daily drivers and can be reasonably quick. And they're loads of fun at an autocross course.

Aaron Cake has a great checklist when looking for an FC.

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/buy1.htm
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/buy2.htm

Wankels-Revenge

Ya for the most part people on here are pretty good but there are the usual jerks who'll just pick on u for no good reason.

Anyway, rx-7's are great cars, and yes if taken care of the rotary is just as reliable as any other car. Problem is most 2nd gens are old, and thats what'll usually eat at ur wallet. I own an 87 n/a so my car's already 17 years old, and i've already spent quite a bit of money just trying to get her on the road and back up to spec. I haven't even gotten into mods yet. But if your goal is reliability, then n/a is the route to take. Not as much raw power as a tII, but they can be quick as well, they handle great, are lighter, and are also nicer on gas (if you can say rx-7s are nice on gas at all....)

Just my input.

maxf

Thanks for the links . As for autoX, I've taken my Saab down to a local course. It was loads of fun and I'm looking forward to the next season. (I went with my dad .)

One question did pop into my mind- is an EBC a realistic way to changing boost levels on the fly? Or would changing boost levels require changing fuel injection and other additional tuning? I'm thinking about a setup with either a complete EMS, or a few Apexi units such as their safc and EBC. It would be nice to have the ability to turn up the boost for the track without having to retune.

maxf

Also another thing- why so much fuss about the turbos? I realize that cranking up your boost is a good way to destroy an engine, but if kept at reasonable levels, shouldn't things be relatively reliable? I can't see why people are so enthusiastic about N/A cars- I'm fed up with mine. Yes, it's great for daily driving, but when it comes time to play with the car (on the track ONLY) I can't muster much power out of it. I'd really like to go the turbo route.

BTW, what kind of numbers are you N/A drivers putting out as far as horsepower, torque, and track times?

MakoRacing[FC]

Tuned NA cars are special. Nothing else sounds like them, or works like them. They don't have the complication of the turbo and its related systems. They don't have the wear associated with being forcfed hot air. They don't have all the whooshes, hisses and whines.

Its less complication, less heat under the hood, less wear, and a different kind of power band.

Dom_C

i've never owned a turbo but i have owned 2 86 n/a's. they are great cars and are quik. they are faster then the average bear will knock the socks off of your saab. if you get an n/a that's modded, it iwll be reliable and it's not unheard of for n/a's to hit high 13s and suck and when ported can have hp in the 200rwhp range. that's quit a bit more than a stock tII and in a lot lighter of a car. but like i said i have never owned a tII or even ridden in one so i have nothing to compare this with. just my o2
dom

Wankels-Revenge

Well thats where the rotary-ness of these cars come in. The design of the rotary is space-aged and well before its time......needless to say the materials that make up some of the seals in the engine aren't quite as advanced. Turbo cars (especially higher powered ones) tend to kill off seals faster than n/a cars because of the extra stresses of boost. Once any of the seals go, u need to rebuild the engine. Expensive....but hey if ur making enough power to seriously blow out some seals then it'll be fun too no?

Now n/a rx-7's r different from other n/a cars in that they have a very flat torque curve. Its quite impressive considering how old the car is. I guess u gotta drive one to feel it.

Cybaster

From my experience, having a TII, turbo, and fuel mods...

screw what people say... RX-7s are reliable ^_^

one thing u NEED to do religiously, is oil change.
a well maintained RX-7 is the key.
like all sports cars, you must show alot of care for it.

Tuning wise, the 2nd gens have lots of potential, if you leave the ENGINE internals untouched, you can still have alot of great fun. Most people on the forum would say getting a stand alone EMS would work much better than the SAFC. I myself (due to lack of cash) is looking into a Greddy E-manage right now.

One thing though, if you want to do performance mods to your car, then buy one that is already running and running well... if not, you will spend alot of time trying to get it running.
Like i tell my friends, if you do not want to work on your car by yourself and if u are not willing to take care of it, you won't like RX-7s. you wouldn't need constant tuning to keep it running if your car is in good shape.

I personally think 240sx and the RX-7 are both great cars, my best friend has a 240sx. but for simplicity of smog check, and what nots, i recommend him going for a KA24DET rather than SR20DET. both cars have alot of potential, but i would keep my RX-7 even if i am offered a 240sx with SR swap... If u know how to have fun with rotary, its really awesome, and u know you are different. I guess i like to collect rare cars =)

Have fun and whatever car you choose, wish it is a car that you truly like.

bluelynchypoo

My husband and I have owned an RX-7 for going on six years. We have a 89 vert. Ours is stock and we have not, nor plan to do any modifications on it, we just like the car. From my experience when we took good care of the car it took car of us. It was our dd for almost four years but then life got in the way and we didn’t keep up with it as much as much as we could. We had minor problems, headlight motor and window motor burned out, and we had some idiot who didn’t know what they were doing mess the clutch up while replacing it. We bought another car (not a 7 due to baby on the way) and parked the one we had. Recently we bought an 88 vert with some body damage on the left side and our plan is to combine the two into one. The 88 we bought is mechanically in great condition, and also stock. Any car that is that old and running great on the original equipment seems like it would imply that that type of car is a good car. I’m only speaking from a novice point of view but in my opinion if you like the 2nd generation RX-7 go for it. We have a blast driving ours. It seems like you have some experience working with cars, and/or modifying them so it seems like you would be ok. Good Luck!
I am a newbie as well, just posting my opinion and experience with the cars.

jays83gsl

I'm a newbie to the FC world, but have owned an FB (First generation) RX 7 for almost a year now. When it runs, it runs well. Of course, I wouldn't DARE suggest a newb buy an older RX 7 like an FB.

Something like an FC would be a great way to get into the rotary world for cheap, without sacrificing too much reliability and whatnot, like I did with the first gen.

So far, the FCs that I've driven have a nice punch to them, and they're both NA. Comfortable seats (especially the leather ones in my newest FC. LOL, I got them a day apart), cold AC, fair gas mileage.

I'll tell you what I know from just reading the posts: YOU WILL NEED A SOLDERING GUN THING. There's so much electrical crap that can go wrong with these cars, it scares me.

Other than that, I'm sure that ANY RX 7 can be a daily driver, if properly maintained. More so the FB and FC NA cars (I'm not sure if FD's came NA) than the turbo versions.

Have fun, whichever car you should choose, and don't get scared away by the "anti-noob" asshats that haunt the second gen forum (I do say, the first gen forum is MUCH more, um, neighborly)

superstock2

iTrader: (9)

i seriously recomend driving your saab until its no fun anymore. my first car was a 89 ford escort wagon and i learned to drive in it... then i got bored and started to try more advanced techniques and then it rolled. so i waited and pick up a n/a FC and drove it for a year and a half. i see that as my intro car. it eased me into the rx-7 world because there were really no problems mechanically i couold just tinker with it and learn about the engine and such. never modded it tho cus i was saving all the bills for a turbo. once i got the turbo i was basically fine with doing a 100% of the work on the car myself and have been loving it ever since.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

^all FD's were twin turbo.

Yes, welcome to the club. As soon as I got my first rex almost 5 years ago, I knew I could never go back. Lately I've been experiencing "rotary withdrawl" from lack of driving my cars. Don't start unless you never want to stop... lol.

My TII is going to be AMAZING as soon as it's back on the road. Simple bolt-on's with the reliablility mods to match, can make these cars VERY quick.

To be able to use an EBC to it's full potential, you'll need an FCD, a new fuel pump and some freer flowing exhaust/intake... Oh, and you'll need to port your wastegate (search).

maxf

Do you think any porting to the engine would be necessary if I was just going to do a mild round of upgrades? By mild, I again mean what I mentioned earlier- getting more fuel to the engine (pump, injectors, etc), getting things flowing more easily (intake, exhuast). I've read a lot of posts by people who said that they've done street porting and whatnot. I do have access to machine shops that, in the past, have been able to do porting (and polishing) work for Saabs, and I could inquire about other stuff as well.

So far, things look relatively promising. I like the idea of getting a TII and keeping it stock until I'm sick of it's "stockness," or until I've completed fixing it up if there's any work to be done.

Ardent_Psyclone

Just one note of advice from me... If you do buy an FC, first concentrate on getting the car running right in stock form, use as many OEM parts as possible (unless there is an obvious improved aftermarket part).

The reason I say this is that you should experience the car that Mazda has engineered for you as they intended. If you like it after this, then go ahead and modify as you see fit; if not, then there is no better way to sell a used car than by selling one that has been maintained to OEM spec.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

And make sure you don't get a car that had a DPO (dumbass previous owner). I just spent two hours wiring in a stereo because some idiot chopped off the stock connector at some point.

I guess it shouldn't have taken two hours, but you have to include the Mountain Dew and pizza breaks. And I had to wire in a relay so the antenna would work.

The poster above me hit the nail right on the head. Get the car back in great stock shape if it isn't already.

maxf

That's a wonderful idea. I'm now going to keep my eyes peeled for a TII. I'd like to buy it in good shape, and make sure it stays in good shape- Maybe even get it into better shape. If I still like it after a while, I'll start with the mods. I'll make another post once I get more questions or an RX7 .

Bob_The_Normal

Yep.

Totally agreed.

I don't completely agree that these cars are as reliable as other cars though... honestly... a 240sx is more reliable pound for pound. But it's also different... you don't get the rotary power band, you don't get the sound, the look (starting to sound like the Atkin's rebuild video now...) and I think all those things really make it worth it. It's a unique car... 240s are common as dirt, and normally looking similar. Even in this area where there is a concentration of RX-7 owners, it's rare to see one.

--Gary

capn

if you do buy one make sure its running. ive only owned my rx7 for a little over 8 months now, and it has never run. i thought i found a good engine but to my dismay nopers. so big point in looking for one MAKE SURE IT RUNS. if not STAY AWAY the problem in mine turned out to be blown coolant seals and broken apex seals on both rotors (major bummer)

but luckly im getting a TII in a week and i'll be happy

cbrinega

My RX-7 has around 160k miles on it and has experienced the typical FC problems: broken windshield wiper relays, broken power antenna, broken A/C vents, broken power window switch, rusted out exhaust, stuck 6PI sleeves (non-turbo only), etc. However, I've fixed these problems as I find them, replaced many interior parts, and upgraded many components in the process. Overall this car has been the best bang for the buck for driving excitement that I've experienced.

Here's a list of some of my favorite RX-7 vendors to help you in your process.
www.racingbeat.com
www.rx7.com
www.corksport.com
www.mazdaformance.com
www.victoriabritish.com

Unless you find a car that is in exceptional condition, plan on doing a lot of the restoration and fixes yourself using parts from these vendors. Good Luck

NorCal90

The only thing the 240s have on most FCs is the kinda-rear seats so if you want to carry more than one person you're out of luck (mostly). Other then that, all the reasons above are excellent ones. I also was looking at 240s more then 7s beacuse they are more common but I found my GXL at a local dealership with only 72k on it so I bought it and couldn't be happier. Only thing wrong is the windshield wiper switch but some Rain-X fixed that. Milage isn't that great and your car will die if you don't check the oil enough but its not really that hard of a thing to do. And honestly, whats cooler than having a 1.3L that will own engines with over twice its displacment (as far as T2s go)?