We are in the process of trying to get my friend's 89 NA RX-7 to start. Here is where it all stands: All the plugs are getting spark, the fuel pump is working, we have tried every unflooding trick in the book, gone through a couple quarts of ATF, and still it won't start. It will pop and sputter at times like it is trying to start, but it won't really catch. We checked the timing with a timing light and I think it may be off. We attached the light to the L1 plug lead and adjusted the crank angle sensor until the yellow pully mark was lined up. Next we connected the light to the T1 lead, and the light is again firing when the yellow mark is in line, NOT the red like the service manual says it is supposed to. Is this normal? Keep in mind the car is just beeing cranked and not idling, I don't know if that makes a difference. Any ideas on what the problem is here or what to do? I am really stumped by this one. Thanks for any help!

 

No, this is not normal. Trailing timing is at least 10 degrees (red mark) behind leading. Most suspect, wires are crossed. Both wires from the front coil should go to the lower plugs, make sure they do. Doesn't matter which wire to which lower plug, just that they go to a lower plug. Trailing, you can disconnect to try and start the car, but if you leave it connected, the coil (back one) with a white dot must go to the front upper plug.

Irv, Keith's dad

 

this is actually my car. Me and a buddy are working on it at his house. this is the reason he started the thread. The wires are installed correctly the front coil t1 and t2 on bottom then the back coils l1 and l2 on the top. That was our first thought and we checked it last night. I appreciate the reply. What else could be causing this simultaneuos firing.

 

I just know I'm tired and can't read, or you made a small insignificant mistake when you said the fronts are t1 and t2 etc........ You know that the front coil is the lead and are L1 and L2, and the rear coils are T1 and T2. Typo I'm sure. No matter what you call them, you've got 'em on right.

 

I am sorry, but I think I have made a mistake. What you are seeing as far as timing goes IS normal, I think. You see, the CAS has only 1 set of timing signals - there is no seperate one for the trailing ignition. So, it is up to the ECU to provide retard. It may not do so at cranking, but what does it matter? You have gotten the leading ignition close by setting it to the yellow mark, and the car should start. If it does not, inspect your plugs/wires. The plugs may be fouled out, the wires may be arcing to ground. Are you getting compression? If the engine is spinning as if the plugs are pulled out, you are not, and it will never start until this is corrected. With all that ATF, if you are still not getting compression then the engine is bad imho. Good luck!

Irv, Keith's dad

 

We definately have them on right. So why in the world would the leading and trailing plugs be firing at the same time?

 

have some compression, have spark, have fuel, still no dice anything else you might be able to tell me would be greatly appreciated

 

Ok. I know theres some folk that don't think starter fluid and rotary should go together but lets do this and get it over with. Tired of ***** footing around. Some lite work involved.
Go to the store and get two Lead plugs and two cans of starter fluid.
You don't have a fuel cut sw and since you don't, do this: On the left rear strut tower is a connector for the fuel pump under the carpeting. Take the cover off the speaker and access the plug. Disconnect it.
Pull your lower plugs. Spin the engine for about ten seconds. Put the new lead plugs in.
I assume your friend is still helping you or vice versa.
Get in the car and get ready to start. Have your friend spray the starter fluid in the snorkel(duct prior to the air filter) for about four seconds.
When he stops, try starting the car. Hold your foot to the floor. Hopefully the car will make short varoom for a moment. Its just got to because your timing is close, got compression, got spark, and now I know you have fuel with the starter fluid , but little or no chance of any flooding right now because the pump is disconnected.
I'm gonna assume it went varoom for a split second or two. Do the process again and then once more.
Let dream and pretend the above happened. Now have your buddy spray once more. Then before you try starting the car, have him go to the fuel plug on the L/H strut tower and tell him to hold the two halves of the plug real close so he can connect them at a moments notice. Start the car. When it starts to go varoom he must slam the connector together right then if not sooner. Trust me, he will be to late. Try again with the starter fluid and him at the connector until he gets fast enough.
You can eliminate your friend by buying a toggle sw at PepBoys. Cut the blue wire on the fuel pump connector in two, and connect each half to the switch you bought. String some wire so you can toggle it from the drivers seat.
This is a typing exercise more than anything. In the above all I'm trying to do is rid you of that fuel pump and the chance its flooding you out in a heart beat. A car like yours that has been giving you a hard time starting is bound to have low compression with the washed off oil on the rotors, and a low compression car will flood in a heart beat. Spraying the starter fluid, and with the pump out of the way, we'll at least get the thing firing, and if you sw the pump in the same nanno second as the car fires on the starter fluid, it should stay running. If not the first time, try, try again. Ever wonder how I would know?
Sorry about the two new plugs. Gotta get 'em. Just the lowers.

 

took the fuel pump off the other day, by using the drivers side rear shock tower plug in. did not try the fluid or the new plugs, the plugs on there are brand new. I went to discount auto and looked at the plugs the NGK's I believe, about $6 each sound right. I'll get the new plugs and some starting fluid. I will try again on Monday afternoon Hopefully we will have a running car monday night. I'll post again then. Or if any one else has suggestions. also is there a way I can wire that switch in to the dash like a sort of antitheft device. I put one on the ignition for my brother's mustang. It works.
thanks

 

just wondering too. did you have to do this to yours? and did the starter fluid not blow the apex seals like everyone else says?

 

I used starting fluid to get my 7 to run for a little bit...But it only worked for a sec cause I was spraying it directly to the throttle body. If you disconnect the air intake hose at any point after the air filter, you have disabled the AFM, and your car will only run for a few seconds. Its because when starting, the fuel pump is enabled, then it looks for a signal from the AFM to keep it going. No signal=no fuel. THing about starting fluid is, it will start just about anything, as long as air and spark are good. I used 3 cans of it troubleshooting my car. That doesnt mean that its healthy for rotaries, but it didnt blow mine up....

Rat

 

Listen to JRAT. No, I've used starter fluid for a nuimber of years to help start rotaries.Just don't get stupid and spray the fluid into the intake while the engine is already running. If you do you'll soon find out what *knocK* sounds like. I don't have any broken apex seals.
I'd make the fuel cut switch first. It sounds like you've done that before. If you do, you might make it running from the relay under the dash near and above the steering column. If you do not know where that is, ignore that thought and go with making one from the connector at the strut tower. You can do the one under the dash another day. You need to concentrate on starting the car and ignore side issues.
This exercise is to get the engine going and firing and eliminating the fuel pump as a potential item that is keeping you from starting the car.The pulling the fuse does not cut the mustard on a car that has low compression that in turn results in easy flooding. You've already been down that road.
Oh, your question of have I done this? Heck yes. One pig f***ing rebuild that I glued the triangular piece on using superglue resulted in low compression for ever and never. Pig would not start. Kept flooding at the mear whiff of fuel. Got tired of running to the rear, unplugging and plugging the pump connector. Made a switch. Used the starter fluid. Car started. Was slow with the sw. Had to learn to turn the sw on at the same instant the car started with the starter fluid. Had to use the sw off and on for the next couple of days. Sw just sits there now days just in case. I use it to depressurize the fuel rails etc, but its there, just in case.

 

according to this you have the wires hooked up wrong! t1 and t2 should go to he TOP 2 plugs (trailing) and L1 and L2 lower plugs (leading)

 

thanks guys i'll put the switch on monday. can't work on it tonight or tommorrow have a big physiology test monday. also this car has an after market exhaust on it, does this matter? I know it does on my pontiac. I cut the cat off and car ran great when floored but died when let off gas. also it was near impossible to start like this. somehow this made it flood but 350 was alot easier to unflood than this thing. I'll be in and out checking these replies. I'll let yall know monday what happened with the car.

 

ok guys small explosion. Ears still ringing. did the fuel pump switch mounted to the dash looks good. sprayed starter fluid for a few seconds. tried to crank the motor started to spin faster. opened throttle all the way then BOOM. blew the breater hose clean off the throttle body. Nice fire ball. Just wondering will the car run on one rotor, we think that the compression is bad in one rotor, also think the back rotor is good. This motor has 79K on it. checked the plugs and they were dirty again. what's the deal. I don't think the explosion damaged anything, just scared me. reall;y would like to try anything that will get this POS cranked.

 

went back out to try again man its freezing out there. put breather hose back on and tightened the clamps. sprayed very little fluid in. turned key over a few times and boom. this time I was in the car and my buddy was outside. the hose blew eight feet out of the car and and on to the ground. What is causing the starter fluid in the hose to ignite and why is it not cranking?

 

First off...There shouldnt be any BOOM!!s going on. Stop right now! And recheck your timing....The second thing that is wrong is that you are using the gas pedal. DONT DO IT. Once you unflood the motor, you shouldnt touch the gas pedal until you are SURE the motor is runnng...

Rat

 

I thought he said spray the fluid with the fuel pump turned off, press the throttle and turn over. then if it cranks switch the pump on.

 

[Hold your foot to the floor. Hopefully the car will make short varoom for a moment.
see where I got that from

 

going to use the compression gauge this afternoon. Just with the fingers I kow that neither rotor has three staight compressions. gettting one big puff and two little ones on the back rotor. front rotor gets very small to nothing. I figured it was just because the car sat since 98. I thought maybe that if we got it running it would develope comression. Any ways, today I am going to check the compression with a guage, set the CAS by the Haynes manual, unflood and clean the plugs again, do the ATF again, and then replace the plugs. then spray fluid into the breather box. and lastly I am going to have my brother pull it with his truck at about 50mph and dump the clutch in second and pull it from here to TEXAS if i have to. The motor is either going to fly apart or crank!!!!!!
Hailers, If you see a rotor fly over head and J-Rat if one lands in your back yard you will know what happened.

 

motor is blown! I however was unable to inflict anymore damage on it by pulling it. I have already purchased another motor. going to paint it and put in new motor over spring break.

 

Sorry 'bout that. When you said that it blew the intake off when you had sprayed starter fluid in the intake, it was almost a given that one or more apex seals had gone south. Just about the only way for the combustion to go back into the intake was a missing apex seal. Sooooo, I can stop looking for you coming down I20 from the East????? I was looking forward to seeing the inlet duct blow off. Darn.

 

Neeto!! DO you have pics of the damage?

 

I was unable to deystroy anything. We pulled it with a chevy 2500 until the truck got hot. the motor in the rx got warm too. anyways I got a used motor coming in around spring break march 9 and hope to paint the car 99 honda silver with blue ford racing stripes. then put in the new motor and some small hop up parts, headers and the like. I will put some pics up on here or my friends website once I get it in decent shape. If you know of decent priced horsepower let me know. thanks

 

I know some decent priced horsepower....screw the nitrous, use direct port ether injection, or hook up Mohit's mouth to the intake hose...kinda like a supercharger (you might want to intercool it though)