Need Help Bad
01-15-03, 09:54 AM
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Need Help Bad
OK , the ongoing problem is still there.My 1990 vert is still dying under a load. It has been to 2 dealerships. Finally the last one supposedly called in an expert and said that my Oil Metering Pump is bad. 1) could that be right and 2) does anyone know where I can get one. I have checked with 1 company in Calif. and Atlanta RX7 and neither one has a good used one. I am hesitating buying a new one because I have already spent almost $3000 on parts they have said was the problem. Any help or advise would greatly be apreciated..thanks again...Paul
01-15-03, 10:04 AM
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You can check the engine codes yourself. You probably shouldn't have taken it to the dealer. There is not a problem that can be answered by the dealer that can't be answered here for free.
To check the codes: you need to ground that little one prong plug located near your leading coil by the battery. Then sit in the car and turn the key to "on" not start. Your check engine light will begin to flash. You then need to write down how it flashes and let us know. You will want to cycle through the codes a few times to make sure you have it right. There will be longer pauses between each code. They will keep flashing over and over again until you turn the car off.
A little back ground on your situation would help. Like what have you done to the car and what have you recently replaced? A new OMP is way too much money. A few people on here can supply them if that is in fact your problem.
Does the check engine light come on while driving? If not then the OMP is probably not the problem.
To check the codes: you need to ground that little one prong plug located near your leading coil by the battery. Then sit in the car and turn the key to "on" not start. Your check engine light will begin to flash. You then need to write down how it flashes and let us know. You will want to cycle through the codes a few times to make sure you have it right. There will be longer pauses between each code. They will keep flashing over and over again until you turn the car off.
A little back ground on your situation would help. Like what have you done to the car and what have you recently replaced? A new OMP is way too much money. A few people on here can supply them if that is in fact your problem.
Does the check engine light come on while driving? If not then the OMP is probably not the problem.
01-15-03, 10:56 AM
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1990 vert.
hey dude, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. First background on the car : I bought it a year ago for my daughter ( put only 300 miles on it in the past year ) ,Awesome looking car, bright red with black top. The car slipped a little in O/D so I already knew I needed a Trans. so it has been replaced. Then she drove it for about a month or two then one day she made a U-turn ( coincidence or not I dont know ) and it didnt shut off but it would not run right when you tried to drive it. It idles great and runs OK unless you step on the gas more than the weight of your foot or at least a half an inch to an inch of pedal travel then it wants to stall out like its not getting gas and sometimes you hear popping in the exhaust. One time it backfired and popped a hole in the muffler but I'm not worried about that. The Cat has been hollowed out before I got the car so its not stopped up. Then I took it to the first dealer, they replaced the TPS and the Air Flow Meter , still the same problem, then they said I needed a fuel pump but I couldnt afford what they wanted for one so I did it myself. Still the same . I had someone else put a Mazda pump in because they said that the aftermarket one I bought was bad.Still the same. Then I took it to another dealer they said the pump was bad again so I had it replaced by the other mechanic because it was under warranty. Then the dealer told me that 2 solenoids under the intake were bad so I had them replaced . still the same. They also adjusted the TPS and AFM. which it does run better now. I can actually do 0-60 in about 4 blocks. But when you step on the gas to start off quick or to pass someone it wants to die out but you let off the gas and it resumes. They say the OMP is bad. and my computer tests fine . I can work on any regular vehicle but dont know jack S%#t about a rotary. The guys at Atlanta RX7 just E-mailed me on how to check the codes myself so I'm gonna do that.To answer your question about the engine light coming on when you drive it? no but every now and then you can hear that irritating little bell or buzzer that sounds when something is wrong but there is no warning light and the gauges are all in good zones.Well I will be back on later I have some errands to run and I'll see if any codes are listed..thanks again...Paul
01-15-03, 11:13 AM
#4
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
From your descriptions I would be looking at the ACV and throttle plates being stuck. Both can cause poor accel, and both stuck can cause backfiring.
The OMP would have nothing to do with poor accelleration unless it was stuck on all the time, or causing the ECU to go into limp mode. Checking the codes in the computer should tell you if it is bad though.
The OMP would have nothing to do with poor accelleration unless it was stuck on all the time, or causing the ECU to go into limp mode. Checking the codes in the computer should tell you if it is bad though.
01-15-03, 11:29 AM
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STOP going to dealerships (or I should say Stealerships.) Their people seldom know anything about 7s, even though it's a Mazda. You may have to wait a while for answers to your questions here, but like Samps said, it's free. There's 26,000 of us signed on, so you can bet that, whatever your problem, someone else out there has been through the exact same thing and can help guide you through it. 
I can't imagine that a bad OMP would have anything to do with your prob.
Some reading for you:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ghlight=bog%2A
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ghlight=bog%2A
It could also be something as trivial as poor grounding. While the engineering of our 7s is brilliant, the electronics assembly and installation left a lot to be desired. 
http://home.earthlink.net/~burntoast/3700.html
And this, which I wrote over a year ago (sheesh - has it been that long?)
I got a little happy with ground wires on my NA FC, both to help my alternator and to chase the 3800 stumble (which I finally did eliminate.)
Using 6-gauge automotive wire (make sure it's the multi-strand automotive wire - don't use anything else - and don't use anything smaller than 10 gauge) I installed a ground wire:
1) from the negative battery terminal to the chasis (the outer bolt holding the master fuse block in place on front of the strut tower.)
2) from the alternator's tension adjusting bolt to the battery's negative terminal.
3) to replace the ground wire on the backside of the engine (running from the tranny housing to a nut up by the wiper motor.)
4) on the ECU harness in the passenger footwell. But this was a 3800 stumble fix and may not be for you. I don't have the desc. in front of me but a write-up does appear in a few FAQs out there... Also added a ground at the air boost sensor for the 3800 fix (which was what finally nixed it.)
5) to replace the main engine ground (from behind the plugs/under the oil filter to the chassis.)
6) from the y-pipe (where your exhaust splits to go out to your mufflers) to the chassis. There's supposed to be a factory ground there, but 15 years on the road tends to nuke them.
I'd also suggest adding a wire from the alternator output to the battery's positive terminal to parallel the stock wire and make the alternator's job easier. I've done this on my own 86 N/A.
You might consider adding grounding straps to the back of your car, too. I haven't, but that's because I'm willing to forgoe whatever the benefit is rather than sport attachments that I think look retarded. I don't have tassels on my coat and I'll be damned if I'll have any on my rotary rocket.
Make sure that all your connections are clean. Scrape away paint and remove any dirt or oil. Use an external tooth washer between each connector and the surface, if you can. And tighten the hell out of it. Use a spray-on enamel or good-sized dollop of di-electric grease on all the ground points to inihibit corrosion (if they start to rust they won't be as effective - my boost-sensor ground started to corrode not long after I put it in - I first noticed it when the stubmle started re-appearing! I cleaned it up and nailed it with di-electric grease and she's been fine ever since.)
And, btw, learn how to use Search. That's how I found all of the above... You often have to wade through a lot of crap to reach them, but usually the answers are already out there.
I can't imagine that a bad OMP would have anything to do with your prob.
Some reading for you:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ghlight=bog%2A
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...ghlight=bog%2A
Originally posted by RETed
If you have THAT much rust in your tank, your sump baffles are probably gone (see previous post).  Look inside your gas tank, the fuel pump (assembly) sits in a 4-walled section in the middle which is the "sump."  This sump keeps gas from sloshing around too much when you corner.  Corroded gas tanks tend to perforate the sump walls and cause all kinds of bog problems due to fuel sloshing away from the fuel pump.  The sump walls need to be INTACT!
-Ted
If you have THAT much rust in your tank, your sump baffles are probably gone (see previous post).  Look inside your gas tank, the fuel pump (assembly) sits in a 4-walled section in the middle which is the "sump."  This sump keeps gas from sloshing around too much when you corner.  Corroded gas tanks tend to perforate the sump walls and cause all kinds of bog problems due to fuel sloshing away from the fuel pump.  The sump walls need to be INTACT!
-Ted
http://home.earthlink.net/~burntoast/3700.html
And this, which I wrote over a year ago (sheesh - has it been that long?)
I got a little happy with ground wires on my NA FC, both to help my alternator and to chase the 3800 stumble (which I finally did eliminate.)
Using 6-gauge automotive wire (make sure it's the multi-strand automotive wire - don't use anything else - and don't use anything smaller than 10 gauge) I installed a ground wire:
1) from the negative battery terminal to the chasis (the outer bolt holding the master fuse block in place on front of the strut tower.)
2) from the alternator's tension adjusting bolt to the battery's negative terminal.
3) to replace the ground wire on the backside of the engine (running from the tranny housing to a nut up by the wiper motor.)
4) on the ECU harness in the passenger footwell. But this was a 3800 stumble fix and may not be for you. I don't have the desc. in front of me but a write-up does appear in a few FAQs out there... Also added a ground at the air boost sensor for the 3800 fix (which was what finally nixed it.)
5) to replace the main engine ground (from behind the plugs/under the oil filter to the chassis.)
6) from the y-pipe (where your exhaust splits to go out to your mufflers) to the chassis. There's supposed to be a factory ground there, but 15 years on the road tends to nuke them.
I'd also suggest adding a wire from the alternator output to the battery's positive terminal to parallel the stock wire and make the alternator's job easier. I've done this on my own 86 N/A.
You might consider adding grounding straps to the back of your car, too. I haven't, but that's because I'm willing to forgoe whatever the benefit is rather than sport attachments that I think look retarded. I don't have tassels on my coat and I'll be damned if I'll have any on my rotary rocket.
Make sure that all your connections are clean. Scrape away paint and remove any dirt or oil. Use an external tooth washer between each connector and the surface, if you can. And tighten the hell out of it. Use a spray-on enamel or good-sized dollop of di-electric grease on all the ground points to inihibit corrosion (if they start to rust they won't be as effective - my boost-sensor ground started to corrode not long after I put it in - I first noticed it when the stubmle started re-appearing! I cleaned it up and nailed it with di-electric grease and she's been fine ever since.)
And, btw, learn how to use Search. That's how I found all of the above... You often have to wade through a lot of crap to reach them, but usually the answers are already out there.
Last edited by Amur_; 01-15-03 at 11:34 AM.
01-15-03, 11:50 AM
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Here is some more info on his situation from an earlier thread:
I have a 1990 RX7 convertable . I recently put a transmission and fuel pump in it . When you try to drive it ( you get the same results in gear with foot on the brake ) it runs fine until about 20 - 25 mph ( or 2200 rpm with foot on brake ) then it shuts off . If you are in park or nuetral you can rev the car up till it redlines and it runs smooth and never misses a lick , it just dies under a load.. I dont know what else to do and there isnt a mazda dealership anywhere close. can anyone give me any ideas ... thanks...
I have a 1990 RX7 convertable . I recently put a transmission and fuel pump in it . When you try to drive it ( you get the same results in gear with foot on the brake ) it runs fine until about 20 - 25 mph ( or 2200 rpm with foot on brake ) then it shuts off . If you are in park or nuetral you can rev the car up till it redlines and it runs smooth and never misses a lick , it just dies under a load.. I dont know what else to do and there isnt a mazda dealership anywhere close. can anyone give me any ideas ... thanks...
01-15-03, 11:52 AM
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I noticed from another thread that you were offered a series 4 TPS. Did you put a series 4 TPS on your car? If so, this is most likely your problem.
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01-15-03, 11:55 AM
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Another post of his with info:
I still cannot drive my car ,,,what the hell ?? The Mazda dealership is F*#@*ing me . The first time I took it in they said I needed a Trans. so $1800 later it still the same way , then I took it back they said it was the TPS , as did some of you guys ,so I got one of those ( thank you , D. Meyers) , I took it to a private mechanic he said that the fuel pressure is what was wrong with it and I needed a fuel pump , so $200 pump did not fix it , he said it was running lean and the injectors needed adjusting that the dealer would have to do that , So back to the dealer I go , they said the injectors cant be adjusted and that it was the Air Flow Meter , I wasnt going to pay $771 for it so I got one from Atlanta RX7 for $175 . The piece of **** still does not work , People keep telling me how much fun these cars are , This is not fun for me , when does the fun start??? It cranks and idles fine , every now and then it revs all trhe way up when you want it to but most of the time it just starts backfiring through the exhaust ( popped one of my mufflers but thats ok) , Thought it was a air leak but that proved to be negative,. When you put it in gear you can get it up to about 40 MPH if you feather the gas , but if you mash the gas to much it will spit , sputter , backfire and lose speed until you let off the gas , let off the gas and it straightens out . Does this sound familiar to any one ? I'm gonna burn this crap if I cant get it to run , its driving me to drink . Thanks
I still cannot drive my car ,,,what the hell ?? The Mazda dealership is F*#@*ing me . The first time I took it in they said I needed a Trans. so $1800 later it still the same way , then I took it back they said it was the TPS , as did some of you guys ,so I got one of those ( thank you , D. Meyers) , I took it to a private mechanic he said that the fuel pressure is what was wrong with it and I needed a fuel pump , so $200 pump did not fix it , he said it was running lean and the injectors needed adjusting that the dealer would have to do that , So back to the dealer I go , they said the injectors cant be adjusted and that it was the Air Flow Meter , I wasnt going to pay $771 for it so I got one from Atlanta RX7 for $175 . The piece of **** still does not work , People keep telling me how much fun these cars are , This is not fun for me , when does the fun start??? It cranks and idles fine , every now and then it revs all trhe way up when you want it to but most of the time it just starts backfiring through the exhaust ( popped one of my mufflers but thats ok) , Thought it was a air leak but that proved to be negative,. When you put it in gear you can get it up to about 40 MPH if you feather the gas , but if you mash the gas to much it will spit , sputter , backfire and lose speed until you let off the gas , let off the gas and it straightens out . Does this sound familiar to any one ? I'm gonna burn this crap if I cant get it to run , its driving me to drink . Thanks
01-15-03, 11:59 AM
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More TPS info for ya:
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/HOWTO/TPS/tps.html
(Bookmark this site - tonnes of great 7 info!)
http://home.rmci.net/panther/tps.htm
And bookmark http://home.rmci.net/panther/tech.htm too.
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/HOWTO/TPS/tps.html
(Bookmark this site - tonnes of great 7 info!)
http://home.rmci.net/panther/tps.htm
And bookmark http://home.rmci.net/panther/tech.htm too.
01-15-03, 12:06 PM
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I vote: TPS badly misadjusted.
Take the plug off of the TPS. Now with the plug that is connected to the TPS you willneed to test the resistence between two of the six prongs. I forget the colors of the two but they are above and below each other in the plug. Looks like this
A B C
D E F
You need to check either (A + D) or (C + F). Which ever one has a value of close to 1 ohm is the right one. Now you need to turn that screw that has a spring wrapped around it until the ohm value is exactly 1 ohm.
The car should not be on for this. And you must make sure you plug the sensor back in before you try it out.
Take the plug off of the TPS. Now with the plug that is connected to the TPS you willneed to test the resistence between two of the six prongs. I forget the colors of the two but they are above and below each other in the plug. Looks like this
A B C
D E F
You need to check either (A + D) or (C + F). Which ever one has a value of close to 1 ohm is the right one. Now you need to turn that screw that has a spring wrapped around it until the ohm value is exactly 1 ohm.
The car should not be on for this. And you must make sure you plug the sensor back in before you try it out.
01-15-03, 08:47 PM
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Badly misadjusted TPS sounds possible, or incorrectly indexed crank angle sensor.
Both are pretty easy to check. I had a similar problem which turned out to be the CAS (which was my own darn fault). But I took (Towed!) my 7 to a respected local shop and asked them to look into this for me. They said that since I had an S5 motor in an S4 with all the S4 electronics (or lack thereof). I was better off just getting another motor. This after I told them that I had done the swap and asked them only to look at the timing. I towed it back home, indexed the CAS and it runs pretty well now. Stay away from dealerships and mechanics. There is a ton of information here and elsewhere that should be able to help you. Download the manual and use the troubleshooting sections to help you figure out what the problem actually is based on exactly what you are experiencing. Describing it in these posts is good, but not as good as being able to actually hear and feel what is going on.
-W
Both are pretty easy to check. I had a similar problem which turned out to be the CAS (which was my own darn fault). But I took (Towed!) my 7 to a respected local shop and asked them to look into this for me. They said that since I had an S5 motor in an S4 with all the S4 electronics (or lack thereof). I was better off just getting another motor. This after I told them that I had done the swap and asked them only to look at the timing. I towed it back home, indexed the CAS and it runs pretty well now. Stay away from dealerships and mechanics. There is a ton of information here and elsewhere that should be able to help you. Download the manual and use the troubleshooting sections to help you figure out what the problem actually is based on exactly what you are experiencing. Describing it in these posts is good, but not as good as being able to actually hear and feel what is going on.
-W
01-16-03, 11:29 PM
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Need help bad ( part II )
Ok guys I checked for the codes and I am assuming that theyre arent any . when I ground out the plug ( green single pin conn. ) by the coil, turn the key to " ON " it doesnt flash any, it just stays on. So I started to check the adjustment on the TPS like one of you said ( cant remember which one. ) , so I got it to about 1 ohm ( 1.02) then plugged it back in. cranked the car then drove it. Much better for about the length of a football field, just long enough to get my hopes up. then it dies again under a load . So I get it back to the house and recheck it and it is off again. so I redo it again the same thing, this goes on for about 4 more times. it doesnt stay set where I put it. but right after I set it it is fine for just a little bit. Then I had to quit and go to work but am planning on working on it again tomorrow...any ideas? ...thanks ...Paul
01-18-03, 02:44 PM
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still need help
Ok guys I worked on it some more. same thing with the TPS. however I didnt know if it made a difference so I unplugged the battery to clear the computer after adjusting it. Same thing but now when I drive it it does fine for about the distance of a football feild then acts up the same but then the Check Engine light comes on. Well I turn around, go back to the house but now when I turn the car off to check the codes thier is none. When I crank the car back up the check engine light is not on and will not come back on till you drive it again..What gives? ....P
01-18-03, 03:02 PM
#15
This might be kinda odd here... But perhaps the Auto tranny isn't down shifting when he hits the throttle. I'm assuming this is an Auto based on some of his statements... perhaps it's an ECU problem or when he was turning the wheel the wire that controls downshifting in an auto tranny was pinched due to a bad tranny mount or engine mount.
Obvious fix: Stop wasting your money at the dealership and take it down to kevin in tennesse
he'll fix that **** right up .
Obvious fix: Stop wasting your money at the dealership and take it down to kevin in tennesse
he'll fix that **** right up .
01-18-03, 03:27 PM
#17
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also are you adjusting it with the car hot? the car needs to be hot / warm. if you are changing it with the car cold. it'll change when it heats up. that could be your adjusing problem...
here is how to check the codes incase you are not doing it right.
http://www.1300cc.com/howto/how2/codes.html
here is how to check the codes incase you are not doing it right.
http://www.1300cc.com/howto/how2/codes.html
01-20-03, 04:33 AM
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ok i've had major probs with my tps like he was describing. i would set me tps drive around fine then it would act up. check it again it'd be at like 300 not 1k. i found that the spring holding the tps wasn't putting enough tension on it so when i was driving it would back itself off. so all i did was stretch the spring out put it back in and then no problems.
01-29-03, 06:02 AM
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ok here's another update for you guys. the spring thing didn't work. i thought it would but the tps only stays set for a short while and then resets itself so now i don't know. if anyone can add any insight to this situation it'll be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance
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