Need build advice for JDM swapped vert
01-23-08, 11:48 PM
#27
Home from work, I hope other more knowledgeable will chime in also, cause I'm kinda new to turbos and performance car stuff.
My first advice on a JDM swap is don't do it!! It's very expensive for the value of the car and you'll never sell the car for how much you spend on it. Insurance will never cover those expenses either. Even with full coverage you will get blue book value if it's totalled.
If you're deadset on saying good goodbye to your finances keep in mind that no matter how much you try to plan...it will be more expensive. It would be much much smarter to buy an RX7 that someone else already swapped an engine into.
I wouldn't cut any corners, cause that's just asking for problems. Probably very expensive problems. I don't have much experience with JDM imports, but it's wise to plan for the worst in terms of condition of the engine you'll get. Do a JDM search and you'll read horror stories of people receiving engines in terrible shape. The importer claiming the engine they are buying is the one in the picture and it not being. What most people will tell you is that you should plan on the JDM engine being a great core to rebuild. Search for the reputation of importers, ask people who've done it who they used, all that good stuff. I got my engine from a rotary specialty shop that ironically doesn't do JDM imports...or at least doesn't advertise it. I was simply in the right place at the right time on what I think was a one time deal they did importing some JDMs. Geting back on track....
I re-emphasis that I wouldn't cut any corners with the minimum of what you need. Stick to what the FAQs on swaps tell you. With that said....You'll want both an engine and transmission. You can get a TII to N/A driveshaft from Mazdatrix. Going that route you can use an N/A differential and half-shafts...but you run the risk of the N/A parts not being able to take the strain of the added torque. It's better to also get a TII driveshaft, diff, and half-shafts.
You'll need the correct year ECU and either be able to swap the pins on your N/A harness of get a TII harness. Um..... an intercooler,the factory BOV (though mazda doesn't call it a BOV), boost pressure sensor, a boost gauge, fuel pump, etc...basically all the things that the lists tell you.
Hope I didn't rain on your parade. I've been very fortunate in that I came into the whole JDM swap thing as a complete and total noob. I've been very lucky in that I've been able to learn as I go. So far I've been able to avoid anything horrible, but have made costly mistakes along the way. From a Berrinstein Bear's perspective, accept the fact that if you have to ask too many questions about it....then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I NEVER should have done a JDM swap when I did. I didn't know enough and probably still don't know enough...but I learn as I go. My best advice is put your life and finances in the hands of a reputable rotary shop and follow their advice.
My first advice on a JDM swap is don't do it!! It's very expensive for the value of the car and you'll never sell the car for how much you spend on it. Insurance will never cover those expenses either. Even with full coverage you will get blue book value if it's totalled.
If you're deadset on saying good goodbye to your finances keep in mind that no matter how much you try to plan...it will be more expensive. It would be much much smarter to buy an RX7 that someone else already swapped an engine into.
I wouldn't cut any corners, cause that's just asking for problems. Probably very expensive problems. I don't have much experience with JDM imports, but it's wise to plan for the worst in terms of condition of the engine you'll get. Do a JDM search and you'll read horror stories of people receiving engines in terrible shape. The importer claiming the engine they are buying is the one in the picture and it not being. What most people will tell you is that you should plan on the JDM engine being a great core to rebuild. Search for the reputation of importers, ask people who've done it who they used, all that good stuff. I got my engine from a rotary specialty shop that ironically doesn't do JDM imports...or at least doesn't advertise it. I was simply in the right place at the right time on what I think was a one time deal they did importing some JDMs. Geting back on track....
I re-emphasis that I wouldn't cut any corners with the minimum of what you need. Stick to what the FAQs on swaps tell you. With that said....You'll want both an engine and transmission. You can get a TII to N/A driveshaft from Mazdatrix. Going that route you can use an N/A differential and half-shafts...but you run the risk of the N/A parts not being able to take the strain of the added torque. It's better to also get a TII driveshaft, diff, and half-shafts.
You'll need the correct year ECU and either be able to swap the pins on your N/A harness of get a TII harness. Um..... an intercooler,the factory BOV (though mazda doesn't call it a BOV), boost pressure sensor, a boost gauge, fuel pump, etc...basically all the things that the lists tell you.
Hope I didn't rain on your parade. I've been very fortunate in that I came into the whole JDM swap thing as a complete and total noob. I've been very lucky in that I've been able to learn as I go. So far I've been able to avoid anything horrible, but have made costly mistakes along the way. From a Berrinstein Bear's perspective, accept the fact that if you have to ask too many questions about it....then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I NEVER should have done a JDM swap when I did. I didn't know enough and probably still don't know enough...but I learn as I go. My best advice is put your life and finances in the hands of a reputable rotary shop and follow their advice.
01-24-08, 09:26 AM
#28
JustJeff is right. I just happened to be in the situation where I've been working and building my rx7 for years. I've bought parts cars and sold other stuff. I discovered that I had enough parts for a complete drivetrain swap and bought a convertible, not the other way around.
If you are really interested, what you need to do is buy a running half cut for $2500-$2800 from UPGarage in Tacoma, WA (253-565-9823). It is everything you need to build up your car. You can even get a turbo hood, skirts, tail lights, if you want them all at the same time.
1) Pull the engine, ecu, tranny, driveshaft, rear end, axles, brakes, radiator from the half cut. Do the same with your car.
2) Put all the turbo parts in your car.
3) Change the wiring on your N/A ecu (30min if it's an S5).
4) Change your fuel pump.
5) Absolutely makes sure to have the injectors cleaned.
6) Drive the car
This swap can be a 1 day job.
But as JustJeff said, don't mess around with "bare minimum". It takes more time to source those parts and you'll just be pissed off when you're waiting for a blow off valve or ecu to show up that you would receive all at the same time if you went the half cut route.
If you are really interested, what you need to do is buy a running half cut for $2500-$2800 from UPGarage in Tacoma, WA (253-565-9823). It is everything you need to build up your car. You can even get a turbo hood, skirts, tail lights, if you want them all at the same time.
1) Pull the engine, ecu, tranny, driveshaft, rear end, axles, brakes, radiator from the half cut. Do the same with your car.
2) Put all the turbo parts in your car.
3) Change the wiring on your N/A ecu (30min if it's an S5).
4) Change your fuel pump.
5) Absolutely makes sure to have the injectors cleaned.
6) Drive the car
This swap can be a 1 day job.
But as JustJeff said, don't mess around with "bare minimum". It takes more time to source those parts and you'll just be pissed off when you're waiting for a blow off valve or ecu to show up that you would receive all at the same time if you went the half cut route.
01-24-08, 10:54 AM
#29
UPgarage you say? Is that related to Upgarage in Jland?
Oh and my FD fuel pump arrived today. So I guess the time has come to park the car, pull the UIM, etc.
What Boost Lee said is correct....don't source parts. If you try sourcing parts you'll be collecting parts for some time before you're ready to do the swap. By the time you hvae all the parts you'll run the risk of having bought bad parts which you didn't know were bad till it's time to actually use them. By that time it's too late to get a refund and you suck up the loss.
My situation was my N/A engine got killed when I got caught in flash flooding. At the very least I needed a rear housing and rebuild. I always wanted to do a turbo swap, but didn't know jack about doing it. Opportunity was there and the shop that did the work was very patient in allowing my car to sit while I found the engine and other parts. I am still getting the car right though. Have been using the N/A fuel pump and stock injectors...which is just asking for trouble. Like I said, I'm the Berrinstein Bear of how not to do a JDM swap. I'm very fortunate to have not noobed my car into the grave.
I started a post looking for some used injectors...just in case a good deal came up. Boost, you think UPgarage would have any on hand?
Oh and my FD fuel pump arrived today. So I guess the time has come to park the car, pull the UIM, etc.
What Boost Lee said is correct....don't source parts. If you try sourcing parts you'll be collecting parts for some time before you're ready to do the swap. By the time you hvae all the parts you'll run the risk of having bought bad parts which you didn't know were bad till it's time to actually use them. By that time it's too late to get a refund and you suck up the loss.
My situation was my N/A engine got killed when I got caught in flash flooding. At the very least I needed a rear housing and rebuild. I always wanted to do a turbo swap, but didn't know jack about doing it. Opportunity was there and the shop that did the work was very patient in allowing my car to sit while I found the engine and other parts. I am still getting the car right though. Have been using the N/A fuel pump and stock injectors...which is just asking for trouble. Like I said, I'm the Berrinstein Bear of how not to do a JDM swap. I'm very fortunate to have not noobed my car into the grave.
I started a post looking for some used injectors...just in case a good deal came up. Boost, you think UPgarage would have any on hand?
01-24-08, 12:39 PM
#30
Thanks guys I appreciate it. I bought mine with a blown motor and TII tranny, custom driveshaft to a stock GTUs diff. I have been acquiring bits and pieces along the way (TII wiring harness, exhaust, etc.). But I have been thinking lately exactly what you are saying....I think this project is a little over my head for my current finiancial state.
P.S. probably a really stupid question, but what are the halfshafts, and if I was to continue down this route, would I need TII halfshafts with the GTUs diff?
P.S. probably a really stupid question, but what are the halfshafts, and if I was to continue down this route, would I need TII halfshafts with the GTUs diff?
01-24-08, 01:12 PM
#32
Anyone have a pictoral of doing an FD fuel pump swap. I'm printing up the appropriate pages of both FC and FD FSM and will read them over lunch. It's probably very straight forward, but figured I'd check. Get some feedback while I'm at lunch and all that good stuff....
01-24-08, 03:03 PM
#33
TII halfshafts are beefier than any N/A, and the flanges to bolt to the diff have a different pattern. Fuel pumps are just two wire, there isn't even a polarity, if you get them backwards you'll just spin the pump the other direction.
I have a ton of TII injectors actually. S5 AND S4 (high imp or low imp)
I have a ton of TII injectors actually. S5 AND S4 (high imp or low imp)
01-24-08, 05:26 PM
#34
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
FMU = Fuel managment unit. I'm not sure the other one he's hinting too, maybe the Rtek ECU from http://www.digitaltuning.com?
GSL-SE injectors are low impedence 680CC.
GSL-SE injectors are low impedence 680CC.
your right on both counts, my bad..
here is a link to fmu's and how they work..
http://www.rotaryshack.com/fuelsystems.html
i think besides a s-afc this is your only low dollar alternative
01-25-08, 03:23 PM
#35
Just an update...I found a link for FD fuel pump swaps, thank you to Aaron Cake!!
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/naturbo10.htm
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/naturbo10.htm
04-03-08, 12:06 AM
#36
Bringing this one back
An update, I've swapped an FD fuel pump into my car.
As I'm learning about my rotary I'm learning what my crappy rotary tech has half-assed, left incomplete, or failed to inform me about the status of my JDM swap.
I've had all his crimped and spliced wiring are crap. Some of this is old news from posts I'd made. But here is an overview.
The boost control solenoid (I think it's called, it sits near the oil filler neck) crimped wiring fell apart in my hand. My TPS was way out of whack, so I go to test it and the wiring he crimped as an extension to reach my N/A harness was crap. One of the crimps again fell apart in my hand. One of the wires he used to splice and extend the wiring was crappy speaker wire...but also corroded from one end to the other. You could see it corroded beneath the clear insulation. It corroded badly enough that the corrosion seeped into the insulated crimp and had stained the insulation on the crimp.
When I first got my car back my Greddy boost gauge wasn't installed correctly. I forget the particulars of how he wired it, but it would illuminate and work fine till I turned the headlights on. Then it would go dead. With parking lights on it was fine. It illuminated and worked fine. At the time I figured no big thing and I rewired it myself.
One other knitpicky rant, he never wired up 5th gear/reverse plugs.
Over the weekend I pulled my UIM to check my vacuum hoses and fuel lines. They all seemed fine. No cracks, no thin walls, no leaks. I tested my injectors for resistance and they all were withing high impedence specs. One thing I noticed is that my injectors turn in their mounts rather easily. Very easily in fact. I'm too new to know the consequences of them not being mounted more securely. Also all the injectors are red, which according to the FAQ in 2nd gen forum means they are 460cc. The thing that annoys me is that I've got 3" exhaust and a FCD to allow more boost. He was the one who put the exhaust and FCD on. It would have been nice if I had been told I was running injectors below TII flowrates.
Advice I'd love is what should my priorities be. I was all set to get either an LC-1 or LM-1 wideband. My original chain of events was going to be getting a wideband so I knew my a/f ratio and then get bigger secondaries....from what I assumed was 4x550cc injectors.
Should I be getting the 460cc injectors out ASAP, or is proceeding with a wideband and then injectors a good plan of action?
An update, I've swapped an FD fuel pump into my car.
As I'm learning about my rotary I'm learning what my crappy rotary tech has half-assed, left incomplete, or failed to inform me about the status of my JDM swap.
I've had all his crimped and spliced wiring are crap. Some of this is old news from posts I'd made. But here is an overview.
The boost control solenoid (I think it's called, it sits near the oil filler neck) crimped wiring fell apart in my hand. My TPS was way out of whack, so I go to test it and the wiring he crimped as an extension to reach my N/A harness was crap. One of the crimps again fell apart in my hand. One of the wires he used to splice and extend the wiring was crappy speaker wire...but also corroded from one end to the other. You could see it corroded beneath the clear insulation. It corroded badly enough that the corrosion seeped into the insulated crimp and had stained the insulation on the crimp.
When I first got my car back my Greddy boost gauge wasn't installed correctly. I forget the particulars of how he wired it, but it would illuminate and work fine till I turned the headlights on. Then it would go dead. With parking lights on it was fine. It illuminated and worked fine. At the time I figured no big thing and I rewired it myself.
One other knitpicky rant, he never wired up 5th gear/reverse plugs.
Over the weekend I pulled my UIM to check my vacuum hoses and fuel lines. They all seemed fine. No cracks, no thin walls, no leaks. I tested my injectors for resistance and they all were withing high impedence specs. One thing I noticed is that my injectors turn in their mounts rather easily. Very easily in fact. I'm too new to know the consequences of them not being mounted more securely. Also all the injectors are red, which according to the FAQ in 2nd gen forum means they are 460cc. The thing that annoys me is that I've got 3" exhaust and a FCD to allow more boost. He was the one who put the exhaust and FCD on. It would have been nice if I had been told I was running injectors below TII flowrates.
Advice I'd love is what should my priorities be. I was all set to get either an LC-1 or LM-1 wideband. My original chain of events was going to be getting a wideband so I knew my a/f ratio and then get bigger secondaries....from what I assumed was 4x550cc injectors.
Should I be getting the 460cc injectors out ASAP, or is proceeding with a wideband and then injectors a good plan of action?
Last edited by JustJeff; 04-03-08 at 12:11 AM.
04-03-08, 11:38 AM
#37
pics included
After having a night to sleep on it, daylight and a camera to take pics and then compare with other pics of injectors. I may have spoken too soon. What I thought was red looks more purple. Can anyone help in clarifying my confusion? The first pic is my injector, the others I provided for reference.
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