Valkyrie

I don't particularly hate the automatic seatbelts on the S5... however, the lap belt is USELESS!

Is it not supposed to lock up, like the shoulder belt (upon any sort of severe maneuver)? If it did, they'd be great. But it doesn't, at least not on my car. Instead, it just sort of...sits there. I mean, what's the point of even having it, if it doesn't lock up in some way, preferably the same way the shoulder belt locks up.

Or IS it supposed to? And do I need to take it apart and fix it, or something?

The other thing that sucks about mouse belts is that you can't use a CG Lock for autocrossing... as the design is fundamentally different.


OTOH, does anyone know a way to make the belt able to tense up bolt belts on command? If that was possible, the stock seat would seem slightly less horrible, beside the complete lack of any hold, and no support for your legs...

Valkyrie

Maybe I'll just get some Schroth automatic harnesses as soon as I get my bucket seat in there...

You can install the tail strap to just about any original mount point... even if it's not straight in line with the seat (ie, on the C pillar).

Roen

iTrader: (2)

yea, mine just crapped out on me right before an autox session and an hpde the next day. Still ran the two but it's annoying now.

Valkyrie

The FSM shows the retractor for the automatic lap belt, but doesn't mention ANYTHING about it having a lock...

Really, WTF. It wouldn't do ANYTHING in an accident, at all.

Icemark

all seat belts with retractors; lock when stopping. If it does not, the belt/retractor is broken.

Valkyrie

I know, they should. But specifically, does the S5 manual lap belt that goes with the automatic shoulder belt (that does actually have a working, electrically controlled (IIRC) locking system, actually have an inertial pendulum lock?

If so, Mazda owes me a couple of retractors...

riverzendz

I have a pair of those Schroth auto harnesses if you decide to go that route.

Valkyrie

I'm not going to commit to buying them until I can confirm that they can be properly installed into an S5 coupe with cargo bins (although I'm considering taking them out as...they're kind of a waste of space) that came with automatic seat belts.

It's hard to find suitable locations on cars that aren't four-door sedans or at least full-sized four-seat coupes. The instructions say you shouldn't drill or tap your own mounting points.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

4 point harnesses are more dangerous than stock 3 point harnesses, because of a phenomenon called submarineing. Also "racing" sholder harnesses without a proper harness/roll bar are even yet more dangerous because of spine compresson under impact.

4-points should never be used for anything. 4, 5, and 6 points improperly installed are extremly hazardous even for street driving.

Valkyrie

Schroth harnesses are proven to submarine far less than any OEM 3-point harness, which still submarine badly, even compared to competition four-point harnesses.

OTOH, an anti-submarining strap means you can kiss your ***** goodbye on an impact, from the way it looks it (except on Formula-style 6-point harnesses that have very widely spread out ASM straps).

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Where's the c-pillar for the RX-7's? That's where the schroth site says to bolt them to.

Bunchies

iTrader: (1)

ok, what about the anti submarining 4 point belts that schroth makes?

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

I have never heard anything but the oposite from track safety gurus. The fact that one of your shoulders goes forward is what locks your hips in place on factory 3-points. The scroth harnesses dont stop that. Some HPDE organizations dont even allow 4-points at all. You may chose from 5, 6, or factory 3 point.

I would rather have swollen ***** for a week than permanent or even temporary paralysis.

6-point cam-lock is the best. With at least a B-pillar roll bar, including a properly positioned harness bar.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

No such thing, those are called "tuner" harnesses. No reputable competition body anywhere allows 4-points.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I agree with you on the properly installed point. They wouldn't make 4 points if they were somehow less safe then the stock belts (assuming proper installation).

You can always add-in an anti-submarine belt later if necessary for your class or if you just want to feel safer.

Valkyrie

There is no C-pillar per say. And the stock mount for the shoulder belt on cars that don't have automatic belts is WAAAY too close and at way too much of an angle from the seat to work for the tail strap/retractor. The C-pillar is only on 4-door cars, and it's talking about the rear seat's shoulder belt mount point.

There is one spot in the middle of the car, in the back of the hatch, with two large threaded holes, under the carpet that looks like it could be useable, but I'm not sure if it's suitable or not, since it's in the middle of the car.

BTW, Schroth belts have break-away stitches on one of the shoulder straps (depends on driver/passenger) that lets the body turn like it was in a 3-point harness during an accident, which is why they are not only DOT legal, they are also available as OEM on German-market BMWs. And unlike 3-point harnesses, the 4-point design keeps you tighter with the seat, which is safer during wrecks.

OTOH, they claimed that a study proves that 2" webbing is safer than 3" webbing, which doesn't make any sense to me.

Valkyrie

well, not any more they don't. I'm referring to ones like Takata and Sabelt... meaning, a harness that doesn't have an ASM strap, but isn't street-legal like Schroth harnesses. That, and they have the time-consuming race-style camlocks, not the more practical buckles.

'87 turbo II

iTrader: (1)

I always forget there are FCs out there with auto belts. I am so happy I don't have them. That was one of the weirdest 1980/90s car features.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Wrong, Schroth has a 4point harness for stock seats that is a competition use belt that has an anti-sub feature built into the shoulder loops.

You need to have aftermarket seats for a 6 point camlock system.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

I have seen FCs with the shoulder belts mounted to the top of the rear area just under the glass. Seems like too much stretch to me.

That is an interesting tidbit on the scroth break away shoulder. I can see that making a difference. I was unaware of that because i wrote off any 4-points years ago. I still use the stock 3 points in my car on the track, although i will shortly be going to g-force 6-points with a custom roll bar.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

Well they can call it competition all they want but good luck getting through any race tech inspection ANYWHERE. SCCA, NASA, etc etc...

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

Of course, but i would hope anyone who is thinking of doing a competition harness setup would do the seats at the same time. Nobody likes to slide around on stock seats.

riverzendz

Do you know what Schroth auto harnesses are and how they function? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm asking a serious question. I'm asking because they way your talking it sounds as if you have no idea what they are and how they work.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

As i said above, i was unaware of thier break-away deal. To me that dosnt provide any more safety than stock belts. Stock belts are tested not just by manufacturers but by insurance companies and the government. I do not buy that the scroth harnesses provide any more safety. I would guess thier advantage is when it comes to keeping you in place while driving though.

IMO if im going to spend the money at all ill do 5 or 6 points with a roll bar.

Valkyrie

I take it back... the lap belts DO lock up when you brake harder than say, slowing down at a light.

BUT, I've never actually felt them give me ANY support, even during autocross.

Hopefully the new seat, once I can afford the rails (I'm too picky to just bolt it to the floor), will cure at least my braking hold, and leg pain problems (due to the lack of support).

That, and I won't have to vacuum out the foam that keeps falling out the torn up stock seat.